Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[TURBOTHINK]

I know I cannot comprehend it.  Wondering if this is an 'insanity' defense, where such a defense exists.  I know insanity defenses are rarely successful.   Thank you for educating me.  Or trying! 

It is called in the US an anti-social disorder now. It is not an insanity defense at all here.

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xI4eOf9VDg

video of Joran handed over to Peru.
different from earlier video i believe.

thanks caesu, this was a new one for me and the clearest...it seems like joran understood everything that was being said.

[MisGivings]

Stole this;

van der Sloot wants a lawyer and an interpreter will

Citizen Dutchman food tested that gave the police. The interrogations continue with the presence of a prosecutor


Sunday June 6, 2010 - 1:17 pm

The citizen Netherlands Joran van der Sloot Andreas is now in the dungeons of the National Police Dirincri. The main suspect in the murder of Stephany Flores (21) will be for seven days in the police headquarters to continue being interrogated for a week with police, according to was established Judge Romulo Chira permanent shift Cabezas.

Dirincri fonts informed elcomercio.pe Joran van der Sloot that is relatively quiet and have tasted the food given to you by the police.

AN INTERPRETER
Sources claim that van der Sloot has requested a lawyer and an interpreter will be provided so you can communicate more easily, always with the presence of the prosecutor. So, the interrogations are still underway.

According Peru21, experts see today if the footsteps of Van der Sloot is the same as those found at the crime scene.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490646/joran-van-der-sloot-quiere-abogado-oficio-tendra-interprete

Looks like those shoes are going to get him in trouble yet.

[carpe noctem]

06/06/2010

The suspect refused to testify and demanded the presence of his lawyer and his mother, who would today.

[seemeatthebeach]

LMAO Klaas, for a minute there I thought they had found Georgie Anthony's balls!

[SunnyinTX]

They've got his stuff including laptop!!!!  WOO - HOO!!!

Oh he is so toast! He is burnt toast! He's a crispy critter!!!!

Oh Klaas sometimes you are a sick little puppy!  ROTFLAMO

[seemeatthebeach]

06/06/2010

The suspect refused to testify and demanded the presence of his lawyer and his mother, who would today.

hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Boo-f*ckin' Hoo!

[EURobert]

I think you mean about one in every 25 people have sociopathic traits; psychopathy/sociopathy are syndromes of traits/symptomes.

Not really. It is a lack of conscience. It may exhibit some identifiable symptoms, but in itself is not a symptom. The presence or lack of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or even gender. What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopath murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust or simple opportunity in some cases.

What distinguishes these people from the rest of us is there is an utterly empty hole in their psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. They are totally lacking in any conscience.

Except for the psychopathic monsters like this man and others we see in the news and on TV, whose actions are too horrific to explain away , conscienceless people are nearly always invisible to us in society as a whole. Very few people, no matter how well educated they are in other ways even know the meaning of the word sociopath. Even after we have learned the label for it, to be devoid of any conscience is impossible for most human being to comprehend.  

I've heard some psychiatrists talk of a checklist of 'traits' to determine if someone is a psychopath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

There is a "checklist' but sociopathy differentiates from psychopathy only because of degree. Some believe psychopaths do have a conscience but such a blood lust it is seared. The DSM-IV helps to identify them, but in reality is not often used because unless in legal trouble sociopaths don't go to shrinks.

Psychopathy is most commonly assessed with the PCL-R,  which is a clinical rating scale with 20 items. Each of the items in the PCL-R is scored on a three-point (0, 1, 2) scale according to two factors. PCL-R Factor 2 is associated with reactive anger, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, criminality, and impulsive violence.

PCL-R Factor 1, in contrast, is associated with extraversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of non-deviant social functioning). A psychopath will score high on both factors, whereas someone with APD will score high only on Factor 2
[/quote]

I heard of this list from forensic psychiatrists on TV in relation to JvdS and others; they use this list apparently.
The wikipedia article says psychopathy, sociopathy and other 'popular' names are all synonyms of the official name: antisocial personality disorder.

[Sharon/Tx]

Way to go Peru!  You started the investigation in 10 minutes, whereas in Aruba, they waited 10 days!

[SunnyinTX]

So Joran GAVE Jaap the map?????? Joran essentially ADMITTED guilt by extorting the Holloways. Joran killed again on the exact 5 year anniversary date. 
I am convinced Joran WANTED to be finally caught.

Sorry but I just am not falling for this again until Beth says Natalee is home.
I can never believe that Joran wanted to get caught he's way too selfish. Not buying it................ he got caught because he thought he was untouchable, Well Joran your not in the Netherlands anymore...

schoochie over Blonde, I am on the same limb.

[Buckeye]

On another forum, someone interpreted the "belongings" video.  They said Joran, when asked if he had journals, books, credit cards that he said they were left in Santiago.  The money he had was Thai and Cambodian.  Wonder if he left his "valuables" in a safe in Santiago??

[MsVada]

Frankenjuron probably has his DNA all over victim.



stick a voodoo doll down his throat and hope he chokes on it

I am so bummed that I missed the rare appearance of ROBOTS!!!!  Hope you got them cigars handy

[Lifesong]

here's my list of people who should be thrown in a Peruvian prison.

Anita, Mark Purcell, Julie "fluffah" Renho', van der Straaten, Dompig, Arlene, Reuben, Tito, Valentijn, Sebas (cause he's such an ass), Ole Nellie, Marisol, Rudy, Fat ass Mr Cornflakes, Boeti, Lorenzo (just so I don't ever hear his name again lol) Deepcrack and his idjet brother Satish, Michael Dompig, Kawish, Anyone related to Kawish, Mark Purcell's pyromaniac son, Jules Sambo, Machelle, Marlene, Freddy, Sasha, Aline, the corpse of Paulus, Antonio Carlo, Karin "VaJayJay" Jensen, R Vrolik, Hotshit, ********, Sindalee, pantyboy, Geoffery Cromvoirt, AB (whoever the hell that really was), Mr and Mrs Kettlewappie Rameriz, Kyle Kingman, John Schaeffer, "Lighttanks", Posner, Scubajap, Peeps, Bernadino, Papito, Tacopina, Rosemary "pitbull" Arnold, Ed Roos, Mrs Kub ...

feel free to add.

Love this, Rob!

I'm adding that coward, Clyde Burke.

[Gypsy DD]

So Joran GAVE Jaap the map?????? Joran essentially ADMITTED guilt by extorting the Holloways. Joran killed again on the exact 5 year anniversary date. 
I am convinced Joran WANTED to be finally caught.

Sorry but I just am not falling for this again until Beth says Natalee is home.
I can never believe that Joran wanted to get caught he's way too selfish. Not buying it he got caught because he thought he was untouchable, Well Joran your not in the Netherlands anymore...

I am completely with you Blonde.  Although some shrinks and counselors believe that criminals want to be caught...I never have bought that theory.  The shrinks are just saying the opposite of what they have said before..in otherwords....a narcissistic psycho/ socio path /anti social personality disordered individual does not have a conscience..that we agree on..but  other shrinks saying they want to be caught negates that statement an attributes something to these people they don't have..empathy, compassion, conscience.  Nope..not happening.  These people serve no other person or God then themselves.

Juran had no conscience and never will.  I believe he didn't know that Stephany was the daughter of such a powerful and famous man.  I believe he thought she was someone that just hung around casinos, played poker and no one would miss for sometime...like the girls in Thailand.   He thought wrong this time.  Criminals become more brazen the more crimes they get away with..not because they develop a conscience and want to be caught.  Joran had developed caught a lifestyle for himself that few young men have at his age.  I doubt he ever decided to exchange that lifestyle for jail in Peru. 

[Rob]

06/06/2010

The suspect refused to testify and demanded the presence of his lawyer and his mother, who would today.

lol - he's ok to to kill on his own, but everything else is "mommy included".

[klaasend]

Trying to find a good photo of the Miguel Castro Castro prison.  If anyone finds a good one let me know.  I have the satellite view but I want a pic of the actual cells (and not the photo of them being allowed to play soccer)

[Rob]

Nothing Joran did says he wasnted to get caught. In my opinion, that's just silly.

He feld 3300 kilometers, placed a "do not distrub" sign on the door, told the desk clerk he would be back - and bought himself two days.

Hardly the actions of someone that wants to get caught. Let's remember, jail keeps Joran from his hobby - assault, rape, and murder.

Wanting to get caught is the woman that attempted to kill her two daughters last week and succeeded with one, who called 911 and told them "I just killed my kids" send someone over here now. That's wanting to get caught.

+++
break
+++

I hope Tim finds something, but I'm doubtful. And resigned at this point. A map from Joran is as reliable as a cheeto for engine fuel for your car. I love Carpe's version of Joran's map. < grins >

Clear up the crab trap first - that's a good starting point, and go from there.

[loca]

here's my list of people who should be thrown in a Peruvian prison.

Anita, Mark Purcell, Julie "fluffah" Renho', van der Straaten, Dompig, Arlene, Reuben, Tito, Valentijn, Sebas (cause he's such an ass), Ole Nellie, Marisol, Rudy, Fat ass Mr Cornflakes, Boeti, Lorenzo (just so I don't ever hear his name again lol) Deepcrack and his idjet brother Satish, Michael Dompig, Kawish, Anyone related to Kawish, Mark Purcell's pyromaniac son, Jules Sambo, Machelle, Marlene, Freddy, Sasha, Aline, the corpse of Paulus, Antonio Carlo, Karin "VaJayJay" Jensen, R Vrolik, Hotshit, ********, Sindalee, pantyboy, Geoffery Cromvoirt, AB (whoever the hell that really was), Mr and Mrs Kettlewappie Rameriz, Kyle Kingman, John Schaeffer, "Lighttanks", Posner, Scubajap, Peeps, Bernadino, Papito, Tacopina, Rosemary "pitbull" Arnold, Ed Roos, Mrs Kub ...

feel free to add.

Love this, Rob!

I'm adding that coward, Clyde Burke.

please add jorans two brothers. It seems like bad bad blood runs in that family. safe future lives and nip it in the butt!  They have been raised with the same lack of values and integrity as their parents and elder brother.

[klaasend]

Interesting statement coming from Charlierat I thought (insert winky emoticon)

[loca]

here's my list of people who should be thrown in a Peruvian prison.

Anita, Mark Purcell, Julie "fluffah" Renho', van der Straaten, Dompig, Arlene, Reuben, Tito, Valentijn, Sebas (cause he's such an ass), Ole Nellie, Marisol, Rudy, Fat ass Mr Cornflakes, Boeti, Lorenzo (just so I don't ever hear his name again lol) Deepcrack and his idjet brother Satish, Michael Dompig, Kawish, Anyone related to Kawish, Mark Purcell's pyromaniac son, Jules Sambo, Machelle, Marlene, Freddy, Sasha, Aline, the corpse of Paulus, Antonio Carlo, Karin "VaJayJay" Jensen, R Vrolik, Hotshit, ********, Sindalee, pantyboy, Geoffery Cromvoirt, AB (whoever the hell that really was), Mr and Mrs Kettlewappie Rameriz, Kyle Kingman, John Schaeffer, "Lighttanks", Posner, Scubajap, Peeps, Bernadino, Papito, Tacopina, Rosemary "pitbull" Arnold, Ed Roos, Mrs Kub ...

feel free to add.

Love this, Rob!

I'm adding that coward, Clyde Burke.

please add jorans two brothers. It seems like bad bad blood runs in that family. safe future lives and nip it in the butt!  They have been raised with the same lack of values and integrity as their parents and elder brother.

save future lives was what I meant to say