Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[Nut44x4]

He looks like he is going to vomit in the beginning of the video here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20006846-504083.html?tag=latest

[Rob]

Sorry if this ends up being rather long.

Who holds the responsibility?

First and foremost, THAT would be Joran. Many here spotted him as a psychopath many years ago and knew it would take another murder to lock him up. This is how these things go. Fact of life. What makes this doubly or triply painful is that unlike an unknown serial killer - Joran was found early and intentionally allowed to remain free. So, the remaining avenue was another death to get him locked up for good. Had the proper acceptable international protocols been followed, Joran would have been locked up until his 23 or 24 birthday. Let's remember Mr. Fyodor Dostoevsky in his Crime and Punishment novel states that jail time IS the punishment, and not to rehabilitate a criminal. He also states that the death penalty is A punishment and not a deterrent, however, if it deters one person, so be it. Joran is unable to be rehabilitated.

Stephany's death was entirely avoidable. This is where the real heartbreak enters the picture, and it's like watching "Grounghog Day" over and over - which is in itself the double entendre.

Secondly, Aruba, Holland and the Dutch legal system. I don't know how many times I posted that this system is archaic and set-up to favor the privileged and ignore the serf, if you will. This conglomerate of miscreants have barbarically used this system to make it up as they go along. When it was acknowledged that their own laws prevented a miscarriage of justice - they simply stonewalled or said the interpretation was incorrect. "We don't understand their system". No, we got it early on.

The Hague and International World Court - obviously set-up for the communists to empower themselves where they see a POLITICAL injustice and not a criminal act perpetrated on a person who's origin they could careless about. They blew this case from top to bottom and didn't give the corruption a second look. They were in the bag for the purposes of politics and Natalee was from a conservative God fearing town in America. Most thought the Hague was about injustice and giving a victim that final right to be heard - even in death. Wrong. There will never be swift justice from these bodies - and they were dragged kicking and screaming to the Slobodan Milošević and Rwanda trials.

Anita van der Sloot - as the mother of the psychopath and an educator herself - she made that point many times as if it lifted her to a reserved status amongst her fellow Europeans who believe that a good education is all it takes in life to succeed. Wrong again. Allowing a loaded weapon to roam free is not an acceptable response when you yourself place yourself in such a high and lofty status. No one appreciates being told how to live by someone else who's own house is an absolute wreck.

We expect more from educators. We expect them to have experienced many of life's lessons and to apply them to their own lives and those of their children and our children. We do not expect educators to molest our children. We do not expect educators to beat our children. We EXPECT educators to respect children and to provide a safe environment for their growth. When your own house is an utter and diabolical mess - the world of academia should be the last place for your refuge. Anita should have been remanded to desk duty in the janitor's closet. Anita caused many of the problems you see before you today. She will remain unapologetic, and will slime her way around with the few allies she will have remaining on this Earth. As any mother would cry for her child, at some point you say enough is enough and you apply Janet's tough love. In Anita's small mind, her single focus has not be the good of her children, but the good of society, which backfired tremendously. It takes family to raise a child - not a village. Touchy feely good European social values have let everyone down in this case. And those that bought into those philosophies have to bear the burnt of the blame in this entire episode. In the end - Anita will say - "why does this shit always happen to me" (heard that before?) and instead of finally facing the who, why and what's of it all - she will blame a society that she accepted and propagated. However, it was ALWAYS her own doing. So let's lay the blame where it belongs and not try to attempt to spin this off on "Joran was not raised properly by society". This is the philosophy that states - "well, one life has already been lost, why take Joran's away". Never mind that Joran is the reason that life was lost. Much like the attorney for the Mendez brothers who stated that - they have no parents, go easy on them.

The Love Bowl Crowd - you idiots have made this worse than it could have been. You did more than say - what if he is innocent, what if the evidence is wrong, what if there is more to the story. No, you morons actually empowered Joran and his family. You are called enablers. You made him feel as if he was better than the average citizen and deserving of admiration for MURDER.  It must be a sick place where your minds dwell. I can't even begin to imagine your thinking pattern. So devoid of all things normal that I wonder if you all don't have a genetic malfunction somewhere along the chromosome chain. You spent good money spent on spoiled fruit. I know that you have STILL not learned your lesson. Some All of you are the types that keep placing your hand on the hot stove and you just do not possess that reasoning skill set that most people develop by age three. You ARE why we have a criminal justice system. You just can't learn nor navigate life. You make the wrong decision each and every time. It's about time someone told you that. I know it's a first and your own parents coddled you and cleaned up your own messes - much like the van der Sloots have done continually for their kids. But, to allow you to go through your entire life without someone telling you how screwed up you are seems like an injustice in itself.

I know that you will attempt to blame the FBI, Beth, AND even Natalee for everything that happened to Stephany - and much like Anita - you are hopeless. So, throw your money at Joran, grovel for his affection. Send him that Christmas card - and see if he even cares. Your sycophant ways are unbecoming and have the appearance of major mental dementia. You are all so predicable. I suggest you move on to a new love interest, but your years hard of toil would all go to waste. Continue to make a mockery of yourself and all things normal - you wouldn't want to disappoint us.

[cecilita]

Stephanie Flores latest live images

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/92gFDZlRoBI&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/92gFDZlRoBI&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

behind the red circle is stephany. the monster is asking for his keys and cheking if he received messages

Well I am confused. Where are they in the photos? I see a refrigerator and what looks like a really messy room or office...and why is the guy sticking the microphone in her face?? What is that all about??

it is the front desk. I think is the phone because they are trying to check if the monster received messages.

[Blonde]

Joran's temper

Post Joran Attacks American Tourist
Joran v d Sloot and the Plate Glass Window

While there is currently no evidence to suggest that Joran v d Sloot threw a boy through a plate glass window, as some news reports have claimed, a reliable source has confirmed an incident on January 23 of this year which may have led to the rumor.

In one of what might be a pattern of confrontations with visiting American teenagers - which will be addressed in a post tomorrow night, on the day in question Joran v d Sloot is said to have gotten into a fight with an 18 year old male American over possible advances toward a female. The male and female Americans were said to be visiting the island together.

At some point in the confrontation, Joran, much larger than the tourist, was reported to have thrown him against the plate glass window of a local Dunkin Donuts, however the window did not break.

The police were called to deal with the incident, however no arrests were made and no official report was filed.

____________________________________________________________

I'm looking for more

[cecilita]

I think the monster will not be with other prisoners because probably they will kill him.

Seems that doesn't matter there. Everyone is put together, no?

I think that they want him to talk about stehany and nataly's dead. They know that he will be killed if he is with other prisoners. Peru is under the pressure of the international coverage of this

[klaasend]

Good morning all.

Hey, I was wonderin' if you could all help me and TJ out.

He will be on Geraldo tonight - and yes he will actually get to speak, unlike last night's JVM.

Last night we were texting during the show and after, and we were talking about the wire transfer.

In one instance (posted here) Godfather Peter R states that Beth did NOT send the money, and he has been speaking to her, in the other instance, Bo Dietl, said that Beth DID SEND the money.

Which is correct. I know that we do not know all of the details, however, TJ would like to be as prepared as possible and asked me to find any thing on this subject. He thinks this will be a subject of discussion. I think it will be discussed also, how could it not?

I think this is mostly a "contacting" of Beth or her representatives and they called the FBI and they took it from there. I do not think that Beth has the capacity to launch a sting operation on her own, but can with the help of the FBI, and she's a smart lady and knows what to do should the opportunity arise.

any help is appreciated.

Greta is saying Beth sent money too but I'm thinking it's a matter of semantics.  Likely someone sent the money on Beth's behalf.  Afterall, I'm sure the person Joran was extorting was indeed Beth but she probably didn't do any of the footwork to get the money to him and it may not actually been her money.

[Sharon/Tx]

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/online-tournaments/index.html  Talks about the big Poker kickoff in Lima, Peru, online games and the big tournament coming up in Vegas.  I'd love to see his laptop, dates of online games, where he was and when, and when he planned his trip to Peru.

[SunnyinTX]

JULIA RENFRO, MAY THESE IMAGES HAUNT YOU THE REST OF YOUR MISERABLE LIFE.

Good Morning Monks....I was hoping to play catch up and not respond....but this picture of Beth has broken my heart so many times and haunted my waking and sleeping hours......now there is another photo of a grieving mother that has joined Beth's......

Sadly renHO won't lose a minutes rest, or a drink over these mothers.

[Rob]

Good morning all.

Hey, I was wonderin' if you could all help me and TJ out.

He will be on Geraldo tonight - and yes he will actually get to speak, unlike last night's JVM.

Last night we were texting during the show and after, and we were talking about the wire transfer.

In one instance (posted here) Godfather Peter R states that Beth did NOT send the money, and he has been speaking to her, in the other instance, Bo Dietl, said that Beth DID SEND the money.

Which is correct. I know that we do not know all of the details, however, TJ would like to be as prepared as possible and asked me to find any thing on this subject. He thinks this will be a subject of discussion. I think it will be discussed also, how could it not?

I think this is mostly a "contacting" of Beth or her representatives and they called the FBI and they took it from there. I do not think that Beth has the capacity to launch a sting operation on her own, but can with the help of the FBI, and she's a smart lady and knows what to do should the opportunity arise.

any help is appreciated.

Greta is saying Beth sent money too but I'm thinking it's a matter of semantics.  Likely someone sent the money on Beth's behalf.  Afterall, I'm sure the person Joran was extorting was indeed Beth but she probably didn't do any of the footwork to get the money to him and it may not actually been her money.

thank you ladies

[msmarple]

You know, there is just something incredibly “sloppy” about Stephany’s murder. I can’t help thinking about Ted Bundy, who went from “perfect murders” at the beginning of his long siege, to careless rage at the very end.

A couple of people have mentioned to me that maybe Joran wanted to get caught. I don’t know whether that’s the case, but you would THINK he wouldn’t choose to do it in a place with really vile prisons. (Seems he would have chosen Aruba or The Netherlands.) So yes, I think it was a careless rage.

But I still think the real motive was robbery, or perhaps to entice her into a scheme whereby he got control of her money.

(Is any of this worth saying?)

[Ono]

Rob:  That was a good post.

[kippy]

Last image appears alive Stephany Flores

I see his hair in these photos was longer and his natural color.  He DID shave his head and dye his hair after these pics were taken.  And I'm still 10 pages behind...sorry if this is waaaay too late.

[cecilita]

You know, there is just something incredibly “sloppy” about Stephany’s murder. I can’t help thinking about Ted Bundy, who went from “perfect murders” at the beginning of his long siege, to careless rage at the very end.

A couple of people have mentioned to me that maybe Joran wanted to get caught. I don’t know whether that’s the case, but you would THINK he wouldn’t choose to do it in a place with really vile prisons. (Seems he would have chosen Aruba or The Netherlands.) So yes, I think it was a careless rage.

But I still think the real motive was robbery, or perhaps to entice her into a scheme whereby he got control of her money.

(Is any of this worth saying?)

msmarple, i think the same. I think that he really wanted to get caught. It was easy for him to be register in the hotel with another name using a fake ID. I dont think that he paid with his credit card.

[cecilita]

Can be possible that this monster will blame his father for Nathaly's dead?

[SunnyinTX]

Last image appears alive Stephany Flores

Thanks NR, I was wondering when the monster cut and dyed his hair.....these photos gave me the answer.....after he murdered Stephany.....poor excuse for a disguise IDIOT

[klaasend]

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490018/madre-presunta-primera-victima-van-der-sloot-confia-que-ahora-si-se-haga-justicia

Through translator:

[msmarple]

Can be possible that this monster will blame his father for Nathaly's dead?

There is enough blame to spread around. Here are a couple of details you might not know.

* Joran's mother was not in Aruba, but in The Netherlands, when Natalee disappeared.

* A casino video still shot shows a man who looks exactly like Joran's father, at the same table with Natalee and some of her classmates. (We are pretty sure it IS Paulus VdS.) Creeepy.

[Buckeye]

I don't think he wanted to get caught.  He's had ample opportunity, on many continents, to turn himself in.

He always felt he was the clever one.  He wasn't.  His network of enablers and helpers were the clever ones.  On his own, he ends up with orange hair.

Since he "went for coffee" at 8 and returned at 8:45, I hope they check area trash cans for that white shirt.  He had a Tshirt and shorts on, in the taxi.

Most travelers communicate using Skype.  They could check his, and his friends, Skype accounts.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Can be possible that this monster will blame his father for Nathaly's dead?

He reportedly has already claimed he's innocent....depending on what transpires in the days/weeks to come, it would not be a surprise if he blames anyone/everyone but himself.  He's a disgusting LIAR.

[Northern Rose]

Great anticipation for arrival of Joran Van der Sloot Lima today
In the next few hours, the main suspect in the killing of the Peruvian Stephany Flores (21) will arrive in Lima, brought by road from Tacna after being released by the Chilean authorities.

In the next few hours, to Lima Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, chief suspect in the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez found dead early last Wednesday at a hotel in Miraflores district.

The alleged killer is brought by road from Tacna bound for the capital, put a convoy escorted by the National Police. This occurs after the day before the authorities of Chile, where the Dutchman came after leaving Lima on 31 May, delivered abroad to yield explanations for the Peruvian justice.

As recalled, on 2 June when the body was found Stephany Flores (21). Staff of the Directorate of Criminal Investigation (Dirincri) revealed that there are witnesses and video surveillance cameras that engage Van der Sloot in the high-profile crime.

Moreover, the suspicion grows stronger to know that the alien is linked to the disappearance of an American in Aruba Natalee Holoway in 2005.

Men's international news media await the arrival of the alleged murderer of the young Peruvian, daughter of businessman and racer Ricardo Flores. Similarly, in one-minute coverage of RPP correspondents track a land of the police convoy to Lima will bring Joran Van der Sloot.

At 06. 27 this morning, our regional reporter reported that the convoy passed through the 276 mile Pan American Highway South and made a change of vehicle. The Dutchman was taken to a registration drive "CN-8740, bound for Pisco.

It emerged that Van der Sloot on his arrival in Lima will be admitted to the dungeons of the Dirincri for research rigor.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-05-gran-expectativa-por-llegada-de-joran-van-der-sloot-hoy-a-lima-noticia_270093.html