Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[crazybabyborg]

I am simply furious he could treat two young ladies so brutally.

It opens the pain I felt in 2005 all over again.

Joran for being such an animal.

Aruba for allowing the spree to continue... AND THEY ABSOLUTELY DID.

People's lives mean NOTHING in that place.

The world has seen this now.

And I hope and pray that the world will respond!! Aruba is no place to vacation!

[carpe noctem]

I'm so impressed with Stephany's family. I'm just in awe of the perspective they have so soon after Stephany's murder and inspired by their graciousness toward Natalee and her family. They had a choice about the perspective they have and I would not have criticised them for however they felt in their grief. They've invited Natalee and her family to share in the justice they seek.

God Bless Them!

I double that.

Stephany came from good stock. A family with a lot of dignity and class.

It shows in the way they have been handling this nightmare.

[AZSunny]

I am simply furious he could treat two young ladies so brutally.

It opens the pain I felt in 2005 all over again.

Joran for being such an animal.

Aruba for allowing the spree to continue... AND THEY ABSOLUTELY DID.

People's lives mean NOTHING in that place.

The world has seen this now.

You are so right, and it is all so tragic.  Two beautiful young women gone, and Aruba is still trying to cover their ass and worry about tourism.

[Anna]

I love the way the local news calls him "the monster" and "the alien"!

[cecilita]

I love the way the local news calls him "the monster" and "the alien"!

anna i call him the monster the peruvians call him....well they talk a lot about his stay in jail...

[Northern Rose]

cecilita - can you tell us what the cab drivers say in this video please?

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/489040/holandes-joran-van-der-sloot-pago780-soles-salir-pais

The suspect was wearing white shorts and white tennis shoes and he had two suitcases with him. He has tickets to go cuzco sunday but he dindt go. They left Ica to go to Nazca. In nazca he bought bus tickets and ask the taxi driver to take him to Tacna for 1500 soles (650 dollars) they left Nazca sunday around midnight. When they arrived in Nazca he told them that he wanted to go to Tacna and he paid 1500 soles (650 dollars) when they arrived in Tacna he paid them and the taxi driver took him to Arica, Chile.

 During the trip the mosnter requested the back sit because he was tired and wanted to sleep but the driver didnt allow him to do that because his friend and brother were sitting in the back sit. He smoked a lot and the driver could notice that he was nerveous and most of the trip he was very quiet.  During the trip he told them that he was from Aruba.


I dont know how he went to Ica. Ica is 3 hours from Lima.

Thank you so much!

[Puzzler]

Sorry…this is sort of long…but it’s a compilation of a number of comments from over there, most have no references to quote – the one that did, I quoted it (Map). I found these tidbits interesting:

Peru:  3 judge panel, not a jury; once you are charged, you are presumed guilty and the burden of proof lies in proving your innocence.


http://www.theolympian.com/2010/06/04/1260644/dutch-man-sent-to-peru-to-face.html


He had her car keys.............


Oh, he’s going to pay, I had just read where the Dad said, 'he laughed in Aruba, but he's not going to laugh in Peru".


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106023&page=37
Post # 922

MAP showing:

A) Atlantic City Casino (Av. Alfredo Benavides and Av. Larco, Miraflores)

B) Hotel Tac (Republica de Panama 616, Miraflores)

C) Where her car was found (Pasaje Jorge Chavez, Santiago de Surco)

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&sourc...55103&t=h&z=14



Mark Fuhrman on Greta. He is in Lima.

Said...the ME said she died of blunt force trauma. No apparent rape. No baseball bat. The ME theorized that the trauma to the back of her head and neck was due to someone hitting her head on the European style wooden bed frame. The mattress was askew at that end of the bed where her body was found on the floor.


Stories of blood all over the room aren't true. Blood was coming out of the left ear, nose and back of neck. The latter causing brain hemmorage which was the cause of death. Speculating on where the body was found ( beside the top corner of the bed) and the way the box spring bar of the bed stuck out it could be assumed she hit that part falling down causing the trauma to her neck. But the trauma she suffered could not have happened by an accident fall, only with great force.


Greta has Mark Furman down in Peru and he said that:

* finger nail clippings are standard procedure down there
* her head may have been bashed against a corner of the wooden bed frame


Said...the ME said she died of blunt force trauma. No apparent rape. No baseball bat. The ME theorized that the trauma to the back of her head and neck was due to someone hitting her head on the european style wooden bed frame. The mattress was aschew at that end of the bed where her body was found on the floor.


Oy! Such irresponsible reporting. A tennis racket--yes. That's what was reported in the Peru media and Joran played tennis so that makes sense. Only NG is reporting baseball bat (others are just repeating her reporting). Makes no sense and if true why wasn't it reported in the Peru media? Like they are going to give NG the scoop but not their own reporters. Makes no sense. FBI could NOT HAVE ARRESTED JORAN ON MAY 10TH. Sorry to shout but I hate irresponsible reporting. Was he on American soil? No. Did the Aruban authorities agree to hold him for the US? We have heard from them but never have they said they would allow FBI to arrest him. Did Columbia state they would have allowed the arrest at their border? Not that I've heard. Does the FBI even have the authority to arrest a non-citizen on foreign soil for extortion or fraud even if Aruba or Columbia or Peru or any country for that matter would allow it? No they do not. The power of the FBI is set forth by statute. They don't have authority to do this. Greta used to represent white collar criminals in DC. She has to know this. Case closed.


Note from Puzzler:  the force it took to create a mortal head wound, with the information we now know, could have come from bashing a head against the wooden bed frame.  This…thrusts me back to Aruba and the painted rocks and Joran continually discussing Natalee in the context of hitting her head.  Maybe that the sliver of truth…

.

[sb]

OK, out for tonight... good to see everyone again!

[crazybabyborg]

I'm so impressed with Stephany's family. I'm just in awe of the perspective they have so soon after Stephany's murder and inspired by their graciousness toward Natalee and her family. They had a choice about the perspective they have and I would not have criticised them for however they felt in their grief. They've invited Natalee and her family to share in the justice they seek.

God Bless Them!

I double that.

Stephany came from good stock. A family with a lot of dignity and class.

It shows in the way they have been handling this nightmare.

I choked up when her Father said that God used Stephany to bring justice for Natalee and to protect other young women from Joran. It was like he could let her go, knowing she had fulfilled a high purpose in life and that as he opened his hand to turn loose, he had absolute trust that God was holding her hand and that she was safe and happy.

I might personally have those thoughts looking in from the outside, but it takes incredible strength, faith, and discernment to have those thoughts about a child that has just been murdered.

[carpe noctem]

OK, out for tonight... good to see everyone again!

g'night sb! come back soon.

[cecilita]

cecilita - can you tell us what the cab drivers say in this video please?

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/489040/holandes-joran-van-der-sloot-pago780-soles-salir-pais

The suspect was wearing white shorts and white tennis shoes and he had two suitcases with him. He has tickets to go cuzco sunday but he dindt go. They left Ica to go to Nazca. In nazca he bought bus tickets and ask the taxi driver to take him to Tacna for 1500 soles (650 dollars) they left Nazca sunday around midnight. When they arrived in Nazca he told them that he wanted to go to Tacna and he paid 1500 soles (650 dollars) when they arrived in Tacna he paid them and the taxi driver took him to Arica, Chile.

 During the trip the mosnter requested the back sit because he was tired and wanted to sleep but the driver didnt allow him to do that because his friend and brother were sitting in the back sit. He smoked a lot and the driver could notice that he was nerveous and most of the trip he was very quiet.  During the trip he told them that he was from Aruba.


I dont know how he went to Ica. Ica is 3 hours from Lima.

Thank you so much!

you are welcome.

if he had tickets to cuzco. It means that he planned to go to cuzco but his plan changed because he killed Stephany. He knew the airpot has camaras and maybe he tried to avoid them.

[Puzzler]

One more note:  Joran as Dutch Consulate to contact his mother.  Joran was informed that they would not provide an attorney for Joran.   ?

[texasmom]

I'm so impressed with Stephany's family. I'm just in awe of the perspective they have so soon after Stephany's murder and inspired by their graciousness toward Natalee and her family. They had a choice about the perspective they have and I would not have criticised them for however they felt in their grief. They've invited Natalee and her family to share in the justice they seek.

God Bless Them!

They've touched my heart too!  God bless them and comfort them.

[Anna]

I was talking with somewhat of an expert on Latin American affairs this evening about all this.  He told me that the jails in Peru are truly awful especially the ones up in the mountains.  If there is a shortage of money with the government, guess who dosn't get fed?  So there are even food shortages sometimes.

And also, not so mucxh with Peru but other Latin countries, there is this very bad thing with fires.  Someone will squirt charcoal lighter or some such on a prisoner and toss matches into the cell.  Mexico mostly.  Peru not so much.

But still. . .. . prisoner can't escape and what a horrible way to die!  And it is not uncommon for the more remote ones for long-termers not to have running water.  Things like that.

I do hope Joran knows all of this.  If he doesn't, I am sure he soon will. 

[crazybabyborg]

Night sb!! Sleep Well and welcome back!!

[texasmom]

OK, out for tonight... good to see everyone again!

Good night sb!  Great to have you back in the cage!

[Puzzler]

Another note:  read somewhere the language in Peru..possible that bat could mean racquet.  Racquet as in tennis racquet could easily be carried in a suitcase.  So a bat/racquet could be use...but the mortal head would would be force against something heavy...i.e., Joran and the wooden bed frame.


Cecilita - can you tell us if "bat" could mean "racquet"?  Thanks.

[cecilita]

Sorry…this is sort of long…but it’s a compilation of a number of comments from over there, most have no references to quote – the one that did, I quoted it (Map). I found these tidbits interesting:

Peru:  3 judge panel, not a jury; once you are charged, you are presumed guilty and the burden of proof lies in proving your innocence.


http://www.theolympian.com/2010/06/04/1260644/dutch-man-sent-to-peru-to-face.html


He had her car keys.............


Oh, he’s going to pay, I had just read where the Dad said, 'he laughed in Aruba, but he's not going to laugh in Peru".


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106023&page=37
Post # 922

MAP showing:

A) Atlantic City Casino (Av. Alfredo Benavides and Av. Larco, Miraflores)

B) Hotel Tac (Republica de Panama 616, Miraflores)

C) Where her car was found (Pasaje Jorge Chavez, Santiago de Surco)

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&sourc...55103&t=h&z=14



Mark Fuhrman on Greta. He is in Lima.

Said...the ME said she died of blunt force trauma. No apparent rape. No baseball bat. The ME theorized that the trauma to the back of her head and neck was due to someone hitting her head on the European style wooden bed frame. The mattress was askew at that end of the bed where her body was found on the floor.


Stories of blood all over the room aren't true. Blood was coming out of the left ear, nose and back of neck. The latter causing brain hemmorage which was the cause of death. Speculating on where the body was found ( beside the top corner of the bed) and the way the box spring bar of the bed stuck out it could be assumed she hit that part falling down causing the trauma to her neck. But the trauma she suffered could not have happened by an accident fall, only with great force.


Greta has Mark Furman down in Peru and he said that:

* finger nail clippings are standard procedure down there
* her head may have been bashed against a corner of the wooden bed frame


Said...the ME said she died of blunt force trauma. No apparent rape. No baseball bat. The ME theorized that the trauma to the back of her head and neck was due to someone hitting her head on the european style wooden bed frame. The mattress was aschew at that end of the bed where her body was found on the floor.


Oy! Such irresponsible reporting. A tennis racket--yes. That's what was reported in the Peru media and Joran played tennis so that makes sense. Only NG is reporting baseball bat (others are just repeating her reporting). Makes no sense and if true why wasn't it reported in the Peru media? Like they are going to give NG the scoop but not their own reporters. Makes no sense. FBI could NOT HAVE ARRESTED JORAN ON MAY 10TH. Sorry to shout but I hate irresponsible reporting. Was he on American soil? No. Did the Aruban authorities agree to hold him for the US? We have heard from them but never have they said they would allow FBI to arrest him. Did Columbia state they would have allowed the arrest at their border? Not that I've heard. Does the FBI even have the authority to arrest a non-citizen on foreign soil for extortion or fraud even if Aruba or Columbia or Peru or any country for that matter would allow it? No they do not. The power of the FBI is set forth by statute. They don't have authority to do this. Greta used to represent white collar criminals in DC. She has to know this. Case closed.


Note from Puzzler:  the force it took to create a mortal head wound, with the information we now know, could have come from bashing a head against the wooden bed frame.  This…thrusts me back to Aruba and the painted rocks and Joran continually discussing Natalee in the context of hitting her head.  Maybe that the sliver of truth…

.

His hotel was 10 or 15 blocks from the casino. Surco is 10 minutes from his hotel. Somebody took him from Lima to Ica (3 hours trip)

[Anna]

I love the way the local news calls him "the monster" and "the alien"!

anna i call him the monster the peruvians call him....well they talk a lot about his stay in jail...

I see, lol!  Well, some of them did at least refer to him as "the alien" which I love because he used influence to get away with killing Natalee.

I call him things, too, and monster is among the nicest of them.  Guess we all feel that way especially now. 

[Magnolia]

I'm so impressed with Stephany's family. I'm just in awe of the perspective they have so soon after Stephany's murder and inspired by their graciousness toward Natalee and her family. They had a choice about the perspective they have and I would not have criticised them for however they felt in their grief. They've invited Natalee and her family to share in the justice they seek.

God Bless Them!

I double that.

Stephany came from good stock. A family with a lot of dignity and class.

It shows in the way they have been handling this nightmare.

I choked up when her Father said that God used Stephany to bring justice for Natalee and to protect other young women from Joran. It was like he could let her go, knowing she had fulfilled a high purpose in life and that as he opened his hand to turn loose, he had absolute trust that God was holding her hand and that she was safe and happy.

I might personally have those thoughts looking in from the outside, but it takes incredible strength, faith, and discernment to have those thoughts about a child that has just been murdered.

The anger hasn't come yet.  It will as soon as the deep shock and grief have eased a bit.