Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[thirdstrike]

Macabre image:

Are these legit?

[carpe noctem]

De Telegraaf

Tue June 8, 2010, 08:25
"Van der Sloot has been in remission from '

LIMA - With the admission that he has slain Stephany Flores, trying Joran van der Sloot to get his sentence down. That the Peruvian criminal law specialist Mario Amoretti Monday (local time) against Peruvian media said when the police report leaked to the confession.

According to the Peruvian newspaper La República known Van der Sloot Monday at 17.30 Peruvian time, after having systematically denied. He was angry because Stephany Flores in his private life interfered by his laptop on his dark past to have read.

"His strategy is to charge into manslaughter instead of murder. This would he a sentence between six and twenty years get. Of murder would be up to 35 years. And the penalty can be further reduced by the admission. It is more favorable for him unpacked, "said the radio station RPP by Amoretti.

According to the police must find out whether Amoretti Stephany actually booted the laptop at the time that in the supermarket opposite the hotel coffee went out. "And the police must find out what happened to the money they won in the casino and that he disappeared and why the car went off," said Amoretti against RPP.

Van der Sloot would after his departure from the hotel by car from Flores have taken and have parked in another area.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6884231/___Joran_uit_op_strafvermindering___.html?p=2,1

[Bearlyhere]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?

[Bearlyhere]

Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.

He's not in Aruba anymore.  I just don't see that happening!

He's not telling the whole truth!  He knew just what and how much to say.  He's had a lot of advice and practice over five years!

He cut his teeth on the law.

[thirdstrike]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?

Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

[Puzzler]

<<snipped>>

"I just got my statement and the police brought some offenses that Joran has committed over the past two years. They were extremely shocked. I also told them the whole story about the state of affairs with Aruba and Joran's crime syndicate. Also about that they were heavily into conclave."

<<snipped>>


From Jaap's blog, as brought over by EURobert
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7645.msg1146291#msg1146291

I'm still quite interested/curious about this.  Wonder what is really meant by 'conclave'.  That's an unusual word, even in translation.

Me, too!  When I first read this I "knew" it would be important, although I didn't understand what it all meant.  No telling what is on JAAP's computer, etc.  Just like there's no telling what's on Joran's computer, etc.

I hope Interpol performs complete computer forensics on Joran's computer and sends it to the FBI. 

[EURobert]

<a href="http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307" target="_blank">http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307</a>

[Bearlyhere]

He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

Oh, my gosh!  If there are ANY women missing because of Joran...I hope it's all discovered.
According to FBI, if you kill 3 or more people, they consider you a "serial killer".  If any women were killed in Colombia.....

Wonder what Anita thinks of her little sporter now?

Well, there is Natalee and Stephany.  He also killed his dog.  I am not comparing a human to an animal.  IMO, if you can brutally kill your own pet dog, which people treat as a member of your family, it is only a small leap to kill a human.

[Puzzler]

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.

Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

Well, that SOB.

Well, if this were true, why didn't she just leave the hotel room in his absence?
She could have called the cops and beat feet.
And he's confessing to taking her cash and jewelry?
Something's not right, although I couldn't be happier that he realized he was doomed.

Exactly what I've been thinking:

She was a smart girl -
Why did she go to his room in the first place (he'll lie about that and say she wanted him)
Why did she stay in the room "if" she found out stuff on his computer
Why didn't she leave when he went for coffee, if she was alive then (she wasn't IMO)
She was a lesbian, and was found in her underpants...he tried to assualt her and the fury began

[Puzzler]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

hee hee hee - wouldn't it be "perfect" if there are NO Stephany fingerprints on his computer?

[Sleuth]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

[Puzzler]

Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!

4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?

[Puzzler]

I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

Yes, thanks, Cecilita

[Sleuth]

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.

Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

That's what I read as well Sleuth.  I firmly believe in that timeline.  Goes out for (2) cups of coffee, and returns to find her on his comp.  Sets him off, and he kills her.  Not sure he'd smart enough to bhe concerned with playing to the cameras.  if he was, he'd have thought of a better plan then to have both enter, and only him leave...

I believe this timeline as well.

Those Macabre images are some sort of re-enactment.  That girl is fully clothed.

[Sleuth]

Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!

4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?

Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..

[Sleuth]

I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

Yes, thanks, Cecilita

Ditto - thank you Cecilita for our on-the-ground updates.

[Puzzler]

Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.

Eeewwwww!  Why does that have such a ring of truth to it?!?!?!

Can't happen, can't happen....this freak of nature just can't be let to outsmart the system...the US system needs to get him for taking the life of an American!

[thirdstrike]

Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!

4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?

Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..

Ok, so if it's 12:35am where I am right now, what time (my time) is this press conference?

[Sleuth]

He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

Oh, my gosh!  If there are ANY women missing because of Joran...I hope it's all discovered.
According to FBI, if you kill 3 or more people, they consider you a "serial killer".  If any women were killed in Colombia.....

Wonder what Anita thinks of her little sporter now?

Well, there is Natalee and Stephany.  He also killed his dog.  I am not comparing a human to an animal.  IMO, if you can brutally kill your own pet dog, which people treat as a member of your family, it is only a small leap to kill a human.

I agree Bearly.

[Puzzler]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.