Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Bearlyhere]

Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.

Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.

I have not a doubt in my mind that even if he were to go free, Stephanys family will find a way to hunt him down.  Sorry, and don/t mean to make them sound evil, but I have a feeling, he may very well feel his odds are better in a Peruvian prison......I see no end to this but a bad one.... for Urine.....
   I have to wonder if Stephany may have even been trying to sleuth Urine out....maybe trying to help Natalee, and got caught up in this horror. ...God bless this girl no matter what......I see all of our missing/murdered together looking down on us all....

His anger lies just below the surface.  I think there is an uncontrollable rage that lies in him that comes to the top with the least provocation.  I think he will go ballistic on the wrong person while he is in prison.  He will not last long, he cannot stop himself.  He started trouble in Kia and he had many luxuries there, he will never be able to hold his temper in Peru.

[Port Valerie]

Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!

4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?

Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..

Ok, so if it's 12:35am where I am right now, what time (my time) is this press conference?

An hour and a half from now. 2 am for you. 5 am for me. But who has a press conference at 4 am? Where did this fact come from?

[carpe noctem]

Why did he feel the need to pull her pants off?

[Bearlyhere]

xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow

Klaas called him toast,
Rob called him a marshmallow,
Looks like he is gonna be a S'more.

[Sleuth]

<a href="http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307" target="_blank">http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307</a>

EURobert - thank you.  This actually might give us a clearer picture of whether Joran has scratches or bruises. 

[Sleuth]

xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow

Klaas called him toast,
Rob called him a marshmallow,
Looks like he is gonna be a S'more.

At least the blood won't turn to chocolate in Peru....

[carpe noctem]

Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly

[IBE]

If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE

[Puzzler]

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.

Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.

[Sleuth]

Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly

That and why do they keep calling him a judge...these things I ask myself 

Dunno as to what was in his mind regarding pulling her pants off, other than the obvious.

[Bearlyhere]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?

Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.

[Sleuth]

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.

Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.

Could be.  Or it could be that there is no coffee in her stomach but she was alive after he brought it - but she just didn't drink any. 

[Puzzler]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

Or, the first blow was a stunning blow and she couldn't yell

Just because Joran said they yelled doesn't make it so...in fact, IMO, makes it more unlikely

[Sleuth]

Good night all (or G'Day actually).  Tomorrow will be a very interesting day.  I think we will learn lots.

[carpe noctem]

Sex (or his attempt at it) was involved - we are talking about Joran, after all.

Nat didn`t have a laptop.

[Sleuth]

IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!

[thirdstrike]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?

Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.

Hey Bearly!!  Season ended last Tuesday...although I sprained my ankle late in the 1st half.  Was on fire from 3 range when it happened.  Sucks getting old...

Anyway, it appears Dave is a very smafrt man!  Called it almost as it happened.  Knows how Joran's mind works...

[carpe noctem]

Good night all (or G'Day actually).  Tomorrow will be a very interesting day.  I think we will learn lots.

See you soon, Sleuth.

[Puzzler]

Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.

Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.

I have not a doubt in my mind that even if he were to go free, Stephanys family will find a way to hunt him down.  Sorry, and don/t mean to make them sound evil, but I have a feeling, he may very well feel his odds are better in a Peruvian prison......I see no end to this but a bad one.... for Urine.....
   I have to wonder if Stephany may have even been trying to sleuth Urine out....maybe trying to help Natalee, and got caught up in this horror. ...God bless this girl no matter what......I see all of our missing/murdered together looking down on us all....

His anger lies just below the surface.  I think there is an uncontrollable rage that lies in him that comes to the top with the least provocation.  I think he will go ballistic on the wrong person while he is in prison.  He will not last long, he cannot stop himself.  He started trouble in Kia and he had many luxuries there, he will never be able to hold his temper in Peru.

That's what I'm hoping.

After all the luxuries he's had...I can see the fury building up as they take him through the prison doors and he gets his first glimpse of the hallway (way before he gets to the cell)....

[Bearlyhere]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.