Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Puzzler]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.

Yes, I read that too.

I seem to recall that too.  Wonder if those folks gave a "time" they heard loud voices?

[Bearlyhere]

Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly

That and why do they keep calling him a judge...these things I ask myself 

Dunno as to what was in his mind regarding pulling her pants off, other than the obvious.

Even though he flunked the judge thing, he still was allowed to fill in as a judge.  People do not check their facts, it's about getting the story first, not right.  Some of these reports are missing ends of sentences, they just go off to nowhere.  It's not just the language barrier, it is just sloppy work, imo.  Some of it is the language barrier, but other stuff is not.  We have seen this in all the cases.

She may have taken her pants off if her shirt was long to get comfortable in the bed.  At first, didn't they think she had a night shirt on?

[carpe noctem]

Thanks for those very kind words last night, Bearly.

I caught them. I loved them. Thank you!

I heart you.

[Puzzler]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.

Why the roofies?

Good point.  The roofies were probably used to wear down her resistance...we know she wasn't knocked out.

He had to have lured her to his room with some reason.  For her...it wouldn't have been sex.
Money...if he lost a lot of money to her, may the ruse was to "wire" money from his account to her account via his computer.  That would possibly be a reason for her to go to his room.

BUT it wouldn't be a reason for her to hang out for hours.

[Bearlyhere]

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.

Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.

Could be.  Or it could be that there is no coffee in her stomach but she was alive after he brought it - but she just didn't drink any. 

It just seems like such a short time to wash up, pack his crap and get out of there. 

[Bearlyhere]

IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!

Me too.

Thanks, Sleuth, we have missed you.

[Bearlyhere]

“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)

I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?

Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.

Hey Bearly!!  Season ended last Tuesday...although I sprained my ankle late in the 1st half.  Was on fire from 3 range when it happened.  Sucks getting old...

Anyway, it appears Dave is a very smafrt man!  Called it almost as it happened.  Knows how Joran's mind works...

You are not getting older, you are getting better!  Hope it heals well.

[BUCKSHOT]

Joran seeks to minimize his damage, at this point. Strategize, if you will.

Only two reasons for a confession, IMO: (a) Duration of prison time, (b) Location/Quality of prison.

Sounds like his confession will need to be verified, though.

Aruba missed this most critical phase within their investigation. During this time, they felt it necessary to falsely arrest two potential scapegoats, while allowing the "obvious" suspects to frolic around.

[carpe noctem]

Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

[Puzzler]

Joran seeks to minimize his damage, at this point. Strategize, if you will.

Only two reasons for a confession, IMO: (a) Duration of prison time, (b) Location/Quality of prison.

Sounds like his confession will need to be verified, though.

Aruba missed this most critical phase within their investigation. During this time, they felt it necessary to falsely arrest two potential scapegoats, while allowing the "obvious" suspects to frolic around.

Yep!

[BUCKSHOT]

We always knew that JVDS wasn't the "sharpest tool in the shed,........ but c'mon...
(1) Computer File named "How NH was really killed - Version 27"
(2) Bag in his possession, labeled "Bloody clothes for Momma Bear to wash"

[Bearlyhere]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.

Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Thanks, Carpe.

Geeze............

I wonder where her pants went. 

[crazybabyborg]

Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

Thank you Carpe!!

This is killing me.......... LOL! I'm getting dressed to go on into work........ I'll peek in from there! If I can swing it, I'll come home around lunchtime and be ready for it!

[Bearlyhere]

Thanks for those very kind words last night, Bearly.

I caught them. I loved them. Thank you!

I heart you.

I <3 you, too!  xo

[Bearlyhere]

Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

It's 5 her time.

[Bearlyhere]

Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

Thank you Carpe!!

This is killing me.......... LOL! I'm getting dressed to go on into work........ I'll peek in from there! If I can swing it, I'll come home around lunchtime and be ready for it!

According to Cecilita, it is in 16 minutes.

[Puzzler]

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.

Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Thanks, Carpe.

Geeze............

I wonder where her pants went. 

Good questions.  I've read a number of times that clothes were strewn around the room.

Who's clothes?  Were Stephany's pants there?

[crazybabyborg]

Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

It's 5 her time.

Thanks Miss Bear!!

[Puzzler]

So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?

[Bearlyhere]

Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!

4 am

bump