Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Puzzler]

The Peruvian police will likely issue a written Press Release at the news conference.  We will be able to get a copy and see what it hsa to say.  They can release evidence because there is no jury pool to contaminate as it is a 3 member panel of judges.

Because Joran says it doesn't mean the judges have to believe him.

Let's wait and see what LE has to say. 

It's amazing that it took LE only 48 hours to extract a confession and ALE didn't in 5 years.  And even if he takes it all back, anything said can still be used against him with the judgese deciding on the merit of  it.

He can wait up to 2 years for an actual trial.  I will be amazed if he survives to stand trial if it takes 2 years.

Will be interesting to watch the Arubans and Dutch try to spin this.  "After all, Joran DOES now say he did this"

I think that is what the judges are going to hear.  But I remain hopeful that something about Natalee was found.

I'm not certain there is a trial in the sense that we think of one. According to the UK pamphlet to its citizens arrested in Peru, guilt is determined by the police and judges in a very short time; it's sentencing that can take up to two years, and the guilty party waits in prison the whole time.

I heard that Joran will have to first be charged and go before one judge who will start the legal process.  A normal murder trial takes 24 to 36 months, but a confession only takes about 6 months and goes before a 3-judge panel.

[Sea Searcher]

Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..

Blonde,
I've been wondering the same thing. Stef's father can ask the Peru police to get Joran to come clean on Natalee. But then that may be a catch 22 situation. If he confesses does Aruba get him back for trial first?

And I would not be surprised at all if today Aruba announces the searches there have produced some evidence and they are charging Joran with murder. Or, they have reviewed their files and now want to prosecute him.

Ado

Now that would be really interesting...

Good Morning Monkeys !!

So much has happened since I went to bed...

[Puzzler]

I just don't believe she went on his laptop and he killed her for that.  Surely he would have had a password on that computer. And...wouldn't most of his stuff been in Dutch, English or Piamento (sp?).  She speaks Spanish (don't know if she understands Dutch or English).

Anyway...all of that info was old stuff and WHY would it be a surprise to her as we've already heard that she and her sister were talking about Joran some time back.

There's more to it and I believe he's lying like always.

He's trying to make it seem like he should be charged with manslaughter and not murder.

He's a liar...it'll never change.  NEVER.

I believe he killed her and he admitted that because he can't get out of it and if he confesses, he gets about 5 years less prison time than if he doesn't confess. 

It's all about getting the least amount of sentence at this time.
He's cut his losses (an old gambling pun)


 

[klaasend]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/07/dutch-suspect-peru-murder-aruba-disappearance-shows-volatile-moods-tv/

June 07, 2010
Van der Sloot Known to Tell Conflicting Tales

Joran van der Sloot can be charming, angry, deceitful, tearful. The young Dutchman has been all that and more, playing out his troubled drama on TV over the five years since he came under suspicion in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

AMSTERDAM — Joran van der Sloot can be charming, angry, deceitful, tearful. The young Dutchman has been all that and more, playing out his troubled drama on TV over the five years since he came under suspicion in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

By his own admission, half of what he says is a lie.

Twice arrested and released for lack of evidence in the Holloway case, Van der Sloot was taken into custody again last week in connection with the slaying in Peru of Stephany Flores, a 21-year-old college student police say he met while playing poker at a Lima casino. Her May 30 killing came five years to the day after Holloway disappeared.

Towering over the Peruvian officers flanking him, the 6-foot-3-inch (191-centimeter-tall) Dutchman appeared sullen and moist-eyed this weekend when he was paraded before journalists in handcuffs and a bulletproof vest after he was caught and extradited from Chile. Chilean police said Van der Sloot told investigators he was innocent in the case.

But late Monday, a Peruvian police spokesman said that Van der Sloot had confessed to killing Flores.

Police Col. Abel Gamarra, head of the Information Directorate of Police, told The Associated Press that the case will be turned over to prosecutors who will present formal charges against Van der Sloot.

Police planned to take Van der Sloot to the hotel on Tuesday to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

(snipped)

[Bearlyhere]

WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany

There's been reports that Stephany's sister had talked to her about Joran....some time before the poker tournament time

No, her cousin who is a male was talking to his friend about Joran.  If you listen to the tape that goes with the words, there was a mistake in the written part.  It was not her that knew.

[jen3560]

Kalpoes had better call the FBI at the first light of dawn!!

Abso friggen lutely!!!!!  If not, I hope they're holding onto their ankles!

[Sdb]

I don't think he was "moist eyed" at all. I think he was just sweating like his guilty daddy.

[Puzzler]

I haven't read back this morning, but watched the news when I woke up.  All I can say is AMEN!   I was crying this morning during the interview with Dave.  Stephany's father wants to speak with the Holloway family.  Sounds, like he wants to help them further, in finding Nat.

I'm hoping he took a plea deal for the whereabout of Natalee, but we'll see.   He's toast either way, with the Murder charge and still has to faced the extortion charges.   No more murders for him! The world is just a little safer now, as God only knows how many he's truly killed.....  Must be keeping a scrapbook on his laptop, since he got that infuriated about poor Steph looking at his laptop.  She probably saw way more than he ever wanted to be found,, not just his connection to Natalee.

I'm wondering if they're at the point of a plea deal...that might come a little later in connection with timing just before sentencing.

He still hasn't been formally charged.

It's said that he sighed, paused a few long seconds and then said he killed her, he broke her neck - without any emotion.

[Blonde]

Sources from the Police department in Aruba have confirmed Natalee Holloway is dead. One of the three boys is in the process of taking her parents and authorities to the body. They have confessed that Natalee Holloway has been murdered. Please Pray


Sources have said one of the young men who was arrested in the disappearance of an Natalee admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach, while prosecutors said Saturday the investigation was at a crucial point.


Now according to testimony from two of the Dutch boy's Surinamese friends, they brought 18-year-old Natalee Holloway to a beach but didn't get out of the car. Instead, the Surinamese brothers say Holloway and the Dutch teen, who's an honors student at Aruba International School, "were in the back seat kissing." Then something very bad happened. Things got out of control and Natalee died. They are taking authorities to the body.

Up until now the police had refused Saturday morning to say whether they discovered anything overnight to solve the mystery of what happened to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30. 2005

This is a very sad day for us and the family of all. We hope and pray the truth will come out now and justice will prevail.

The prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen had earlier said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources ... [about] alleged statements of suspects in this case."
"The investigation at the moment is the following: Five suspects are being held ... and we are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation," she said.

The three young men will we arraigned and set for trial on Monday.

http://www.annointed.net/Article899.html

[Puzzler]

Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.

And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).

[AZSunny]

I am sitting here this morning, just numb.  I read about the confession before going to be last night, and got up this morning wondering if it were true, or I had a dream and imagined it.  I am in disbelief.  I never thought he would confess.  I salute the Peruvian police for their effectivness and I hope that the Aruban police are ridiculed beyond mercy for their cover up and bungling in Natalee's case.  It's not over Aruba, in fact I think it is about to get worse.

[Nut44x4]

I don't think he was "moist eyed" at all. I think he was just sweating like his guilty daddy.

Sweaty running Son? lol

[nonesuche]

Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.

And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).

Puzzler I agree, it is very difficult and likely it was that force that ripped her eye from her socket - for I can't bear to think he ripped it out with his hands.

Again, jeans aren't loose garments on young adults. Those had to be ripped off her during a struggle, or removed post her death. Somehow it just sticks in my mind when and how that occurred is a strong element in the truth, which we may never know from this pathological liar.

[Anna]

Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.

[klaasend]

Excellent post by Elaine S at RU:

Elaine S  PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:32 am         

In my opinion, Aruba’s case boiled down to a personality contest. While most never met Beth or Joran, sides were drawn, and somewhere along the way, it wasn’t about justice, it was about who was disliked more- a “poor” 17 year old kid who lied because he was “scared” and yet had the presence of mind to make up a story, a “little” lie, about dropping Natalee at her hotel even before he met her family and friends or a Mother looking for truth.

I remember being glued to the news every night, and becoming infuriated with statements coming out of Aruba… to paraphrase a couple - ”this case will be solved in 48 hours,” “she’s dead, I know, I saw the files.” And, I could only imagine Natalee’s family being on a roller coaster ride like I was. Hope was turned to ashes time and time and time again. Did I like everything Beth did? No! In time did I understand why she did it? Absolutely.

Aruba was Joran’s ballpark; he was the home team. Not so in Peru. The tables were turned, and it appears now that he lost the game. He can’t get angry, not like the way the game’s played, and take his bat and ball and go home!

The excuse is that Beth made him who he is… in my opinion, that’s pure and unadulterated bullshit! The intimation seems to be that because she gave him money, she enabled him to go to Peru and sadly kill a girl – this is beyond bullshit. If you believe that, the same could be said for the infamous night he went to Carlos and Charlie’s… it was Paul’s fault for letting him sneak out of the house, and Anita should never have gone to Holland because if she hadn’t, he wouldn’t have snuck out that night!

For 5 years he’s been enabled by many people along the way to do whatever he wanted to do, and say whatever he wanted to say, whenever he felt like it. And, people made excuses for the “why!” I wonder how many of your children have the luxury of never having had a job, not knowing what it’s like to have responsibilities, but yet – are able to travel from country to country doing whatever it is they feel like doing whenever the mood hits, and if along the way, he or she has to throw somebody under the bus to get more funds, mom, dad, whoever… what the hell, it’s okay, you understand!

I’ve said this for 5 years, and I’ll say it again…. If my daughter disappeared, and the circumstances were as they were with Natalee, you can bet your ass that until I took my last breath, I’d be relentless. And, as someone else said, if I had to sell my soul to the devil, I’d do it gladly!

If Joran had help disappearing Natalee… and, by the way, there’s never been a doubt in my mind that he’s complicit in doing so…. I betcha they’re quivering in their pants just about now.

I never thought the story would end like this…. or maybe it’s only the beginning, and everything will come out.

[jen3560]

Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.

I would like to know just what people expected the FBI to do?  They have no authority to actually make an arrest on Aruba.  ALE would have had to do that, and THEN turn him over to the FBI.

So why didn't Aruba arrest him after he was caught on video tape committing extortion and wire fraud?

Once again, it all comes back to ARUBA failing to take action against Joran vd Sloot.

[klaasend]

Extortion = $250,000
2 Cups Coffee = $8.00
Image in handcuffs with crapped pants = PRICELESS

HE'S 1/2 WAY THERE - WHERE'S NATALEE?

[NewfieMonkey]

Kalpoes had better call the FBI at the first light of dawn!!

Abso friggen lutely!!!!!  If not, I hope they're holding onto their ankles!

IMO - A whole lotta government/judicial officials better be calling too!  I bet there's a whole lotta sweatin goin on in Aruba right now ... and it's not because of the weather! 

[TURBOTHINK]

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I don't buy that excuse at all. May not have even happened. He's trying to save himself from a life sentence.

Evidently the police didn't either as they are checking his laptop to see if it was even accessed at those times.

[Anna]

It's such a shame that no one in Aruba had the character to tell thoe young punks who were drugging the tourist girls that not only was that wrong, it was damned wrong and make the police take appropriate actions.

Anypne with half a brain would know where that was all going and how it would end.  Yet it was treated like a big joke.

I am very gratified to see that smirk finally off Joran's face.  But it is unacceptable that two young and promising young woman lost their lives in such senseless ways.

It cannot ever be made right and Joran took life, something he can't give back.  I am glad there is the death penalty where I live for those who do this and take that which they can never repay.