Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[TURBOTHINK]

Good Morning Anna and Monks.....I was so excited I forgot to say Good Morning!

Anna, I was thinking the same thing.....the arubans couldn't break a 17 yo, but the Peruvians got a confession in 2 days after 5 years and how many crimes later??  Personally I don't care HOW they got the confession....they got it.

They did not try to get the truth or a confession in Aruba.....His family was throwing up roadblocks at every corner.

I heard Mark Furman say last night that he was the police investigation room and they had the time line, the evidence line, and everything it would take to convict him but the investigation seemed to just get shut down after his father and other officials became involved. He more or less was saying not to blame the police but it was taken out of their hands time after time.

[Anna]

Stephany at least had a wallet with her as it has been reported no money was left in it.

Robbery.  Plus murder.

[Northern Rose]

from Twitter

You hear a lot of noise, and siren units are moving to believe Joran TAC to the hotel

[Blonde]

He killed her because she was on his laptop and saw something about Natalee Holloway, then
10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

 This will be hie first confession many more to come
WHERE IS NATALEE

[Sassycat]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

Joran van der Sloot: The Making of a Predator
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 
By Dr. Keith Ablow
Fox News

Joran van der Sloot, 22, is being held in Peru, where authorities say he has confessed to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was, of course, the chief suspect in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In that case, there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime, and he was released.

Van der Sloot reportedly explained to Peruvian authorities that he killed Flores when she “intruded” into his personal life by looking at his notebook computer and learning he was involved in Holloway's disappearance.

Indeed, van der Sloot seems to be a killer whose violence erupts from him, rather than the kind of serial killer who methodically and secretively stalks victims and carefully disposes of their remains. He was, after all, seen walking into his hotel room with Flores on a hotel video surveillance camera, and the two had been seen together before the alleged crime. He was known to have spent time with Holloway, as well. Those facts don’t support the kind of methodical stalking of victims that organized serial killers are known for.

Organized serial killers plan their crimes for weeks, months or years. They typically are aware of the internal need to kill. They are known to restrain their victims and bring murder weapons with them to the scenes of their crimes, keeping the weapons with them when they disappear.

Disorganized serial killers (and van der Sloot is apparently one of them) happen upon their victims at random and may be “provoked” to kill not just for the perverse joy of it, but by overwhelming feelings of rage or humiliation.

They often leave murder weapons at the scenes of their crimes and do little to dispose of the physical evidence associated with their crimes. What unites organized and disorganized serial killers, I believe, is a perverse connection with death. Ending life reaches them at a deep level that is connected to their own early and unexplored psychological traumas. The “projection” of their own powerlessness and helplessness and, ultimately, lifelessness is the terrible force that overtakes them—again and again. Alcohol and drugs can contribute to dissolving their defenses and rendering them more likely to be homicidal.

Serial killers — whether organized or disorganized — are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears “out of the womb.”

Joran van der Sloot traveled the world in the five years since he was held in Aruba for the murder of Natalee Holloway. One or more unexplained murders anywhere he visited may involve him. But something also has to have killed off van der Sloot’s capacity to contain his rage and to empathize with the suffering of others. And the scene of that crime, stored deep inside the mind of van der Sloot himself, is not yet known.

It may well be that every episode of violence in Joran van der Sloot’s life has seemed to him as though it would be the last one—beginning with the emotional or physical violence that turned him into a predator.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

[Northern Rose]

Peruvian young Dutchman killed because he discovered his criminal record
Tuesday, June 8, 2010
10:09 a.m.
Agencia EFE
Lima .- The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed that he murdered the young Peruvian blows Stephany Flores, 21, because it found the allegations put to him by the disappearance in 2005 of a young American, Efe reported an police source said.

After being interrogated for three days, Van der Sloot admitted to the agents of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIVINCRI) Flores checked his laptop and found its history, so he attacked with blows to death.

Although he noted that no details can be given on the subject, because it is under investigation, local media said the murder took place on 30 May.

According to the confession, the young Peruvian took advantage of Van der Sloot left the hotel where he stayed to buy some coffee to check your computer.

In this review, Flores found the background who accuse the Dutchman with the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway 18, which until now has not been located in the Caribbean island of Aruba in 2005.

According to local press, the Dutchman, 23, yesterday asked the presence of the police chief heading the investigation and a prosecutor to give his confession.

Van der Sloot said Flores hit in the face repeatedly and then in the back of the head, after which the suffocated.

Local authorities now hope to move to Holland to the hotel to make the reconstruction of the case.

The defendant remains in a cell in the building of the Police investigations (Dirincri) by order of a judge Lima, as it seeks to prevent a suicide attempt or suffer any attack if sent to a common prison.

Van der Sloot has also requested a lawyer of his country to assume its defense and has communicated with his mother.

The Dutchman met last week in a casino Flores Lima and then both went to a hotel, where hours later he was found the body of the young.

Exactly five years before Van der Sloot was the prime suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager.

Following the disclosure of the violent death of Flores and issued an arrest warrant, the Dutchman was arrested in Chile, where authorities expelled him last Friday by the country's border with Peru, where he was received by the Peruvian police.

Also, Joran Van der Sloot has been charged with attempted extortion in Birmingham, Alabama (southern USA), court sources said.

http://www.primerahora.com/holandesasesinoajovenperuanaporquedescubriosusantecedentescriminales-392197.html

[nonesuche]

It's such a shame that no one in Aruba had the character to tell thoe young punks who were drugging the tourist girls that not only was that wrong, it was damned wrong and make the police take appropriate actions.

Anypne with half a brain would know where that was all going and how it would end.  Yet it was treated like a big joke.

I am very gratified to see that smirk finally off Joran's face.  But it is unacceptable that two young and promising young woman lost their lives in such senseless ways.

It cannot ever be made right and Joran took life, something he can't give back.  I am glad there is the death penalty where I live for those who do this and take that which they can never repay.

Well said Anna and surely the bottom line. Aruba had no respect for the loss of life or for the parents, that began with the cornflakes episode and continued throughout.

Perhaps ethics and character just are no longer fashionable enough for Aruba, as they all smile in graduation and bar photos, it simply seems a total lack of conscience.

I can't imagine how hard being in DC for the new center opening will be for Beth in light of recent events, but then perhaps she will feel both Natalee and Stephany's loss will resonate all the more to spur many to value this center. I hope so.

[AZSunny]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

Joran van der Sloot: The Making of a Predator
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 
By Dr. Keith Ablow
Fox News

Joran van der Sloot, 22, is being held in Peru, where authorities say he has confessed to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was, of course, the chief suspect in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In that case, there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime, and he was released.

Van der Sloot reportedly explained to Peruvian authorities that he killed Flores when she “intruded” into his personal life by looking at his notebook computer and learning he was involved in Holloway's disappearance.

Indeed, van der Sloot seems to be a killer whose violence erupts from him, rather than the kind of serial killer who methodically and secretively stalks victims and carefully disposes of their remains. He was, after all, seen walking into his hotel room with Flores on a hotel video surveillance camera, and the two had been seen together before the alleged crime. He was known to have spent time with Holloway, as well. Those facts don’t support the kind of methodical stalking of victims that organized serial killers are known for.

Organized serial killers plan their crimes for weeks, months or years. They typically are aware of the internal need to kill. They are known to restrain their victims and bring murder weapons with them to the scenes of their crimes, keeping the weapons with them when they disappear.

Disorganized serial killers (and van der Sloot is apparently one of them) happen upon their victims at random and may be “provoked” to kill not just for the perverse joy of it, but by overwhelming feelings of rage or humiliation.

They often leave murder weapons at the scenes of their crimes and do little to dispose of the physical evidence associated with their crimes. What unites organized and disorganized serial killers, I believe, is a perverse connection with death. Ending life reaches them at a deep level that is connected to their own early and unexplored psychological traumas. The “projection” of their own powerlessness and helplessness and, ultimately, lifelessness is the terrible force that overtakes them—again and again. Alcohol and drugs can contribute to dissolving their defenses and rendering them more likely to be homicidal.

Serial killers — whether organized or disorganized — are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears “out of the womb.”

Joran van der Sloot traveled the world in the five years since he was held in Aruba for the murder of Natalee Holloway. One or more unexplained murders anywhere he visited may involve him. But something also has to have killed off van der Sloot’s capacity to contain his rage and to empathize with the suffering of others. And the scene of that crime, stored deep inside the mind of van der Sloot himself, is not yet known.

It may well be that every episode of violence in Joran van der Sloot’s life has seemed to him as though it would be the last one—beginning with the emotional or physical violence that turned him into a predator.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

This is a very interesting comment.  What happened in Joran's life that caused all of this anger?  Will we ever know?

[BUCKSHOT]

If SF saw has laptop, why murder her? He could have easily denied everything, as he has done so many times in the past.
Doesn't add all the way up for me yet...

[Northern Rose]

Aruba police search for the body returns of Natalee Holloway after picture of what would be his remains
The picture accompanying this note was taken by tourists who dived the area and would be the remains of the first victim of the Van Sloot

The red circle highlights what would be a human skull found by divers on the beaches of Aruba, it would correspond to the girl Natalee Holloway. (Examiner.com)
Aruba police resumed the search for the body of the young American girl Natalee Holloway in the deep sea of that Caribbean island.

While the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed to taking part in the disappearance of Holloway, east-to-Aruba justice still remains a suspect in the crime that shocked the U.S. public opinion. The case has surfaced about his arrest and confession of the murder of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.

According to Jossy Mansur, editor of the press in Aruba, the preparations for the underwater search for the remains of Natalee Holloway have begun.

Mansur said the channel WIAT, CBS affiliate, that the search will take place "by the bird sanctuary nearby, and in the dam Monserat. Mansur said that the Aruban authorities "believe they must have lost something, some kind of evidence" in connection with Holloway's disappearance. "

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491639/policia-aruba-retoma-busqueda-cadaver-natalee-holloway-foto-lo-que-serian-sus-restos

[klaasend]

If SF saw has laptop, why murder her? He could have easily denied everything, as he has done so many times in the past.
Doesn't add all the way up for me yet...

IMO, they came to Joran with the damning evidence they had.  His attempt at a confession is to give him the best chance at a lower sentance.  THAT'S ALL. 

[Puzzler]

Stephany at least had a wallet with her as it has been reported no money was left in it.

Robbery.  Plus murder.

Well, doesn't those 2 together, satisfy a special circumstance to "add" more time to the sentence under Peruvian law?

[Northern Rose]

Van der Sloot Stephany killed because she discovered his criminal past

'I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, "said the murderer confessed. Stephany Flores discovered the criminal record of the Dutchman, who shot to death

He surrendered to the evidence. Just on Monday afternoon confirmed by the mouths of their own Dutchman Joran van der Sloot that it killed the Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramirez (21) on Sunday May 30 at a hotel in Miraflores.

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life," said the murderer during a police interrogation in the presence of a representative of the Public Ministry, so that the confession has full validity in the research process.

According to sources in the Homicide Division of the National Police, Van der Sloot killed between 8:20 a.m. Stephany and 9:30 a.m., the Italian newspaper Peru 21.

The Dutchman burst of anger when returning from buying coffee for both in a faucet, hotel located next to Tac, found the victim reviewing your laptop (laptop), who discovered that her companion was charged with the murder of Natalee Young Holloway 2005.

Apparently the Dutchman Stephany rebuked him for the murder happened in Aruba, which enraged him and caused the subject of almost two meters of killing blows.

The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation regards the Republic.

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified.

With these statements the police he was in those days looking for the motive, he learned that the computer is key to find more evidence against Van der Sloot now seeking to reduce his sentence arguing that killed Stephany product of an argument, to qualify manslaughter rather than qualified.

Meanwhile, the laptop is in the hands of experts in the police computer. Looking for information found on the girl who tragically met his death at the hands of the Dutchman.

Local newspapers report that a confessed murderer would have established a telephone conversation with his mother Anita Van der Sloot, who is dedicated to teaching in the Netherlands.

She offered to come to Peru to support, however, to hours of Monday night she had not entered the country, as monitored by the Directorate of Migration cites El Comercio.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-08-van-der-sloot-mato-a-stephany-porque-ella-descubrio-su-pasado-criminal-noticia_270724.html

[Puzzler]

Saw video of Dave Holloway saying: "knew nothing about the extortion plot" "only Beth"  "I was totally unaware" - "Hopefully, this is the end of the road" (... for Joran)
Also Dave was told that Stephany's father wants to speak with Dave.

Didn't hear but read somewhere that on the same program, "Today",  that Stephany's father said: "we have his computer" "I think there have been many more (murders)"

Anyone else hear the part about "I think there have been many more murders"?

[JE]

from larepublica.pe

Netherlands: 'Yes, I killed Stephany'


He confessed at 5:30 pm. Van der Sloot was attacked because the girl discovered her dark past. Erupted in anger and broke his neck after the victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American. Your Voice Print

Ernesto L. Guerrero

All tests marked him as the alleged murderer of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, daughter of businessman and racing driver Ricardo Flores. Yesterday, 48 hours after being expelled from Chile, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at last confessed his heinous crime.

Police sources revealed that the dangerous stranger crying admitted his guilt in the presence of a prosecutor and a lawyer.

No output

"He did not leave. His plea of innocence had no support, "he said with obvious satisfaction one of the agents who managed to wrest the expected confession.

It emerged that Van der Sloot was broken emotionally when developers made him see videos captured by security cameras CT Hotel Miraflores, which place the victim in the place and time of the crime.

Privacy

"I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, told the boy of 21, confessed compulsive gambler, who arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international championship poker Lima Fiesta casinos and Atlantic City.

The sources consulted by this newspaper stated that the Dutchman said he exploded in anger because Stephany Flores, Sunday morning May 30, when they were in room 309 of Hotel TAC, he discovered his dark past.

The history of Aruba

"He took my laptop without permission (laptop) and found out through pictures and videos that I was involved in a murder in Aruba," he said.

Van der Sloot was referring to the crime of American Natalee Holloway, committed on May 30, 2005 and whose authorship was attributed at the time.

The Dutchman's computerized file detailed reports included in the court granted him freedom "for not having found the corpse of the young American."

Stephany would have agreed to such information, when his occasional companion left the hotel at a nearby supermarket to buy two cups of coffee and cookies. These images were recorded by the cameras of downtown lodging.

Upon his return, in less time than expected later he found her reading her story.

Karate

"He had no right. I went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and hit ...", was the killer.
 Displaying the outstretched right hand with four fingers together and thumbs up, said he applied a strong karate chop in the neck.

An experienced Dirincri official who took part in the interrogation revealed that the murderer be true only at 5.30 pm, having consistently denied responsibility for the crime.

Attorney and lawyer

Sotomayor Ninfa Espinoza, owner of the 40th Provincial Prosecutor Criminal Court, heard confession rocked the crude.

Van der Sloot was assisted throughout by the public defender Rosa Luisa Camargo.

Stephany Flores, as the murderer, fell face down on the floor after receiving a blow to the head.

He had previously struggled with the assailant in a desperate attempt to escape. The scum who did confirm this.

The completed without mercy

The unfortunate young man lay dying, very near the bed of the room, when the criminals finally suffocated.

The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation.

The Dutchman insisted during interrogation that did not plan the killing.

There was no sex

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she just wanted to leave. She had fetched my things, "he said by way of justification for the ruthless subject.

The same sources reported that the criminal had confused the police kept since he arrived in Lima from Chile.

During the long trip he took land from Tacna to the capital was to open dialogue with Interpol agents responsible for escorting.

Deception

"I have not killed anyone. If you want to search the hotel murderer, "he reportedly told detectives that he engaged in conversation in order to know the truth.

Not only that. It emerged that Van der Sloot told with some confidence to their scouts, during the trip, which had left the Hotel CT the morning of 30 May, leaving Stephany asleep.

He also tried to justify his flight to Chile, ensuring that he or she was bankrupt and had stolen the money the victim had in her purse.

Complicated the investigation

Being key insights obtained informally, Interpol detectives put on top of all agents of the Criminal Investigation Department.

Dirincri chief Gen. Cesar Guardia, then decided to open a new line of research that included all employees who were on duty at the Hotel TAC on the day the murder occurred.

As of Saturday, was not very clear picture regarding the performance of workers in the hotel.

And is that the videos captured by security cameras indicated that the Dutchman had fled the morning of 30 May, however, Stephany's body was only discovered on 2 June.

Why not entered the room rented by the killer 309 for cleaning of rigor for three consecutive days?

The receptionist Adely Abad Marchena and eleven workers were suspected until yesterday.

Did you know ...

Review. The Dutchman's laptop is currently held by computer experts from the police. It expects to recover the information found Stephany and which ended dead.

Key information. It is assumed that the videos and pictures you saw Stephany could help solve the murder of American Natalee Holloway.

Now my daughter rest in peace

The entrepreneur and race car driver Ricardo Flores thanked the National Police in record time to solve the horrendous murder of Stephany. He expressed his gratitude to the Chilean authorities wisely drove the criminal to his country. "Now I know that my daughter rest in peace," he said with conviction.

The criminal and university professor Hidalgo Reategui Socrates said that if it is shown that the Dutchman stole the money that the victim had in her purse would be caught by Article 188 of the Penal Code which punishes up to life imprisonment for murder with robbery.

The Dutchman's confession of 21 years may not be challenged on the judicial level, having been given in the presence of a representative of the Attorney General and have had the advice of a public defender. "They did everything according to law," said General Cesar Guardia satisfied, chief of the Dirincri.

[BUCKSHOT]

AZSunny -

Although he seemed to revel in the fact that he got away with murder...

I'll bet many things led to his downfall, contributing to his "nothing to lose" actions:
(1) Death od PVDS - probably felt somewhat responsible.
(2) General dislike for him in his backyard (Aruba)
(3) Lynch mob mentality towards him in Holland.
(4) Watching his every move (Peter dVries chasing him around)
(5) Catching wind (from ALE) about extortion plot.
(6) Overall losing pattern in Poker
(7) Lack of money and resources.
( Inability to forge relationships with women due to notoriety.
(9) Isolated lifestyle. Had become a total "lone wolf"

Add in his personality traits:
(1) Arrogant
(2) Narcissist
(3) Sense of entitlement
(4) Untouchable attitude
(5) Liar
(6) Psycopath
(7) Loose cannon
( Unstable
(9) No direction

All of the above (plus many morte descriptives) probably culminated into his Peruvian experience.

Just my humble opinion...

[Puzzler]

I haven't read back this morning, but watched the news when I woke up.  All I can say is AMEN!   I was crying this morning during the interview with Dave.  Stephany's father wants to speak with the Holloway family.  Sounds, like he wants to help them further, in finding Nat.

I'm hoping he took a plea deal for the whereabout of Natalee, but we'll see.   He's toast either way, with the Murder charge and still has to faced the extortion charges.   No more murders for him! The world is just a little safer now, as God only knows how many he's truly killed.....  Must be keeping a scrapbook on his laptop, since he got that infuriated about poor Steph looking at his laptop.  She probably saw way more than he ever wanted to be found,, not just his connection to Natalee.

I'm wondering if they're at the point of a plea deal...that might come a little later in connection with timing just before sentencing.

He still hasn't been formally charged.

It's said that he sighed, paused a few long seconds and then said he killed her, he broke her neck - without any emotion.

I'm sorry I got in your quote...please forgive...

[Puzzler]

Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.

Hear! Hear!

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM by someone that appears to be in the NL.  Take it with a grain of salt please:

Brendon Dunn
Submitted on 2010/06/08 at 9:58am

Breaking news: it is said the remains of Nathalie have been found.

[Lifesong]

Aruba police search for the body returns of Natalee Holloway after picture of what would be his remains
The picture accompanying this note was taken by tourists who dived the area and would be the remains of the first victim of the Van Sloot

The red circle highlights what would be a human skull found by divers on the beaches of Aruba, it would correspond to the girl Natalee Holloway. (Examiner.com)
Aruba police resumed the search for the body of the young American girl Natalee Holloway in the deep sea of that Caribbean island.

While the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed to taking part in the disappearance of Holloway, east-to-Aruba justice still remains a suspect in the crime that shocked the U.S. public opinion. The case has surfaced about his arrest and confession of the murder of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.

According to Jossy Mansur, editor of the press in Aruba, the preparations for the underwater search for the remains of Natalee Holloway have begun.

Mansur said the channel WIAT, CBS affiliate, that the search will take place "by the bird sanctuary nearby, and in the dam Monserat. Mansur said that the Aruban authorities "believe they must have lost something, some kind of evidence" in connection with Holloway's disappearance. "

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491639/policia-aruba-retoma-busqueda-cadaver-natalee-holloway-foto-lo-que-serian-sus-restos

Perhaps we need a spanish speaking monkey to put together an email/press release to the Peruvian/South American press with the pictures of the crab trap and a brief explanation.

I believe opportunity is knocking.