Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Rob]

So this is what we have:

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14.  

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Now that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

I snipped that -

Queen Beatrix to Caracas or Bogata makes sense - Queen B To Peru is a rare flight. I have met people on Aruba from Peru, but that was like the first time I was there.

[Tamikosmom]

A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197: There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117: I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.

[Rob]

So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.

That is true - I spoke to TJ earlier and posted that he spoke to Dave - Dave was going to Aruba.

With the server traffic issues - it may have been missed.

[klaasend]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/peru.murder.case.holloway/

Holloway urges prayers for Peru victim's family
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 8, 2010 12:13 p.m. EDT

(CNN) -- The mother of Natalee Holloway on Tuesday urged her supporters to keep "in our hearts and in our prayers" the family of the woman that Joran van der Sloot is now accused of killing.

Beth Holloway made the remark at the opening of a resource center in Washington for the families of missing persons, a center that bears her daughter's name.

Van der Sloot was arrested twice in connection with Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba but was released for lack of evidence. He denied any involvement and has not been charged in the Holloway case, but was arrested last week by authorities in Peru in connection with the killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez.

[MuffyBee]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/08/2010-06-08_natalee_holloways_father_wants_joran_van_der_sloot_to_keep_talking.html
Natalee Holloway's father wants Joran Van der Sloot to keep talking
  June 8, 2010

Keep talking, Joran.

That's the message from Natalee Holloway's father Tuesday.

Now that the Dutch playboy has confessed to murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores in a Lima, Peru hotel, Dave Holloway thinks it's time for Van der Sloot to tell all about Natalee's disappearance.
"I would like for him to tell everyone what happened," Holloway told ABC's "Good Morning America."

Flores was killed exactly five years to the day that Holloway disappeared as an 18-year-old Alabama high school student on vacation in Aruba.

Van der sloot, 22, was twice arrested and released by Aruban authorities, who said they lacked evidence to keep him locked up. Last week, Van der Sloot was charged in the U.S. with trying to extort $250,000 from the Holloway family in exchange for details about her disappearance.
According to La Republica newspaper in Peru, van der Sloot's confession on Monday revealed he murdered her because she was getting too nosy.

"I went to her and I hit her," he said, according to the newspaper. "She was scared, we argued and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."

[Puzzler]

I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 

[Jo-An]

I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

thanks Jo-An!

I am anxious to hear if Anita or any other family member plans to go to Peru or is he on his own?  I wonder how she feels knowing she and paulus created and reared a monster?

All I know is that she talked to Joran on the phone and he said that when the cameras are rolling, he gets treated real nice but once the cameras stop rolling it turns into a whole different situation. Well boohoo Joran, welcome to Peru! You're not in Disneyland, man!
I heard that his mom will visit him in the next couple of days.

[SunnyinTX]

So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.

That is true - I spoke to TJ earlier and posted that he spoke to Dave - Dave was going to Aruba.

With the server traffic issues - it may have been missed.

Rob was this a planned trip or a time to get your ass over there trip???

[Puzzler]

So this is what we have:

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14.  

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Now that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

I snipped that -

Queen Beatrix to Caracas or Bogata makes sense - Queen B To Peru is a rare flight. I have met people on Aruba from Peru, but that was like the first time I was there.

One report is that the girls went missing on May 8

[BUCKSHOT]

A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197: There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117: I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.

Or...Once in Dutch/Aruban prison for eight years...SF media attention dies down...
Gets time served (Concurrent) while negotiating crime in Peru to manslaughter...

Something tells me that it will not go down like this, though..
However, it is in the back of my mind...

[Jo-An]

So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.

[jen3560]

If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Yup.

And that would also prove that Mommy and Renfro helped with the guise of him still being there, after he had already left.  Remember their FB posts to him of "good luck, happy life, blah blah blah blah" were posted on May 14.

[Jo-An]

So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.

The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So Or maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.

[SunnyinTX]

I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

thanks Jo-An!

I am anxious to hear if Anita or any other family member plans to go to Peru or is he on his own?  I wonder how she feels knowing she and paulus created and reared a monster?

All I know is that she talked to Joran on the phone and he said that when the cameras are rolling, he gets treated real nice but once the cameras stop rolling it turns into a whole different situation. Well boohoo Joran, welcome to Peru! You're not in Disneyland, man!
I heard that his mom will visit him in the next couple of days.

thanks Jo-An......he'd better wake up to the fact that things are gonna get a whole lot worse....and soon!!

[Rob]

If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting

[Angiex911dsptchr]

I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 

I would tend to believe Rob's theory above.  Not very far fecthed at all...

 Going to try and say this polite.. I havnt got to watch TV much or anything due to being so busy.. have my grandaughter here now who is napping .. so I jumped on to read.
  I didnt know about Steph having her monthly curse.. <thats what I call it>.. anyhow.. ROB.. you posted she got that AFTER sex.. I know a condowm was used or whatever you wrote.... but.. OK.. we knew the poor gal is a lesbian.. perhaps this was the first time she had sex.. in THIS CASE I am SURE RAPE.. and her.. well.. what you guys say from what I can recall when I was young.. he popped her cherry?  I apologize for saying this but do not recall the correct term for that.      I'm sure she was raped by the demon ass.

[BUCKSHOT]

From Greta Wire -- June 8, 2010

Following up on the tip I reported her last week that John Q. Kelly was in Aruba twice in May, sources have now confirmed to me that it was John Q. Kelly, the Holloway family attorney who set up the sting operation on May 10.

Here is how it unfolded:

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April.  Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday.  Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage.  Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway.  For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Kelly, with the FBI, and with the assistance of Aruban law enforcement, set up the sting operation for May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

The plan was to tape van der Sloot extorting money from Beth Holloway via her lawyer.  Van der Sloot was given $10,000 cash (he counted it twice on tape) which is the extortion count and was wired $15,000 (wire fraud count.)  The FBI has all the bank information for the bank transfer.  The method of money transfer - cash and wire - was deliberate part of the plan in order to set up these two crimes.

Once the crime was committed on tape - it was -  the FBI planned to make arrangements to arrest van der Sloot.  The FBI arrest obviously did not happen.  Kelly spent several hours being taped with van der Sloot.  The FBI has the entire tape.  The Aruban authorities do not have the tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the FBI was warned that van der Sloot was leaving the country but that the FBI did not move.

At no time after he left the country, per my sources, was Kelly told by the FBI that the FBI had "lost" van der Sloot.  Instead, Kelly was - it apears - mislead by the FBI into thinking an arrest was imminent.

After the murder in Peru, the US Attorney in Alabama unsealed an Amended Criminal Complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud (per the original plan.)  What is not known is what was Amended or when the original Criminal Complaint was filed (it was apparently under seal.) Both these pieces of information could be helpful in  better understanding what happened.

What is still not fully explained - is why the FBI did not act.  It appears the crime was "delivered" to them on May 10 and in the best possible manner: on tape.

More to come.

Anything is possible, though...

[cajun miracle]

Well, well, well! Thi s is all shocking news and now all we need is for Natalee to be found. His confession is real but the facts are NOT. Can't wait to hear what their prosecutor has to say about the forensics.

Smoking my cigars for Wreck since yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!

BRING Natalee home!! Justice IS coming!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197: There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117: I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.

June 7, 2010 1:04 PM
New Search for Natalee Holloway's Body as Joran van der Sloot Questioned in Peru Murder?

Van der Sloot has long been considered the prime suspect in Holloway's death, and now, says Jossy Mansur, editor of the Diario Newspaper in Aruba, police are preparing to launch two new searches on the island in the hopes of locating Holloway's remains.

Mansur told CBS affiliate WIAT that the search will occur "by the bird sanctuary near the hotel" and also at Monserat dam on the island.

Mansur said that Aruban authorities "believe they must have missed something, some kind of evidence" related to Holloway's disappearance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20006938-504083.html

[Curly]

I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 

I'm going with my original thought - killed her in an attack when she rebuked him - soon after arriving in the room - that makes sense. She was dead for three hours when he went for the coffee.

++ still having some problem posting - I'm copying and backing out with the back button and re-quoting, with paste. I hope this does not result in dups.

I agree with your original thought, Rob. She was dead long before he went to buy coffee.
I keep getting kicked, switching from Safari to Firefox and bookmarks to get in.
I hope his computer files have all the info needed to find Natalee.