Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Lifesong]

Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment.

And Sebastian free to run amuck on suicide-vacation island.

(Sebastian a.k.a. Poppin' Fresh, lol.  Magnolia that still cracks me up!)

[MisGivings]

javascript:void(0);


- Joran confessed
- So we are still looking for the real killer

Mis...I just choked on my pretzel.............the little tallywackers hanging beneath the jackets got me!  ROTFLMAO!!

Thanks. I stole it.

[Blonde]

If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting

May 10. A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the

That would make it May 13th

[SunnyinTX]

From Greta Wire -- June 8, 2010

Following up on the tip I reported her last week that John Q. Kelly was in Aruba twice in May, sources have now confirmed to me that it was John Q. Kelly, the Holloway family attorney who set up the sting operation on May 10.

Here is how it unfolded:

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April.  Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday.  Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage.  Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway.  For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Kelly, with the FBI, and with the assistance of Aruban law enforcement, set up the sting operation for May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

The plan was to tape van der Sloot extorting money from Beth Holloway via her lawyer.  Van der Sloot was given $10,000 cash (he counted it twice on tape) which is the extortion count and was wired $15,000 (wire fraud count.)  The FBI has all the bank information for the bank transfer.  The method of money transfer - cash and wire - was deliberate part of the plan in order to set up these two crimes.

Once the crime was committed on tape - it was -  the FBI planned to make arrangements to arrest van der Sloot.  The FBI arrest obviously did not happen.  Kelly spent several hours being taped with van der Sloot.  The FBI has the entire tape.  The Aruban authorities do not have the tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the FBI was warned that van der Sloot was leaving the country but that the FBI did not move.

At no time after he left the country, per my sources, was Kelly told by the FBI that the FBI had "lost" van der Sloot.  Instead, Kelly was - it apears - mislead by the FBI into thinking an arrest was imminent.

After the murder in Peru, the US Attorney in Alabama unsealed an Amended Criminal Complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud (per the original plan.)  What is not known is what was Amended or when the original Criminal Complaint was filed (it was apparently under seal.) Both these pieces of information could be helpful in  better understanding what happened.

What is still not fully explained - is why the FBI did not act.  It appears the crime was "delivered" to them on May 10 and in the best possible manner: on tape.

More to come.

Anything is possible, though...

Ok Greta!  Aruba KNEW he committed a crime...why the hell didn't they detain him???  We KNOW the FBI has no authority in aruba......why didn't they detain him until the FBI got the paperwork to them....  She has a real hard on for the FBI right now.  Sure hopes she needs their help someday!!

[Nut44x4]

I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 

yep, the "don't bother my girl" coupled with the do not disturb sign says alot. After-all, he KNEW she was dead. You're right - the passport was the problem and he didn't know how long it would be until she was discovered - so he couldn't take her car far - there would be a BOLO - he was screwed.

Rob....there was no DO NOT DISTURB sign on the door in the videos...just sayin.... that was false.

[Kimmy53]

JOran thinks he is so smart - so he tries what worked for him before.  Well, this time, there are forensics, video tapes and a body AND daddy and uncle V. is not in charge. He's going down - no matter what he confesses to or tries to recant.  I think the Peruvians are out for blood.  They will not play games

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment.

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol

[JE]

apparently JVDS is a martial artist of great skill. In the peruvian newspaper the wrote that the broken neck was the result of a "karate chop" to the neck.

There is a discussion here:

http://www.karateforums.com/going-for-the-neck-break-vt33563.html

 that discusses the possibility of breaking someones neck with a karate chop

"...As far as breaking someone's neck with a karate chop, its not going to happen, certainly not the way you're envisioning it anyways.

The only circumstance in which I know of a broken neck in a fight was when Frank Shamrock fought Igor Zinoviev and slammed him to the ground. Neck breaking techniques are perfectly legal in mixed martial arts and plenty of people have taken shots to the neck in these tournaments. I would blame the whole "broken neck theory" on many 80's ninja and chuck norris movies....."

[klaasend]

http://www.farecompare.com/flights/Aruba-AUA/Bogota-BOG/market.html

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      The shortest connecting flight from AUA to BOG is 4,729 miles on United.
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      The shortest nonstop flight time is 1 hours, 55 minutes on Avianca.
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      The shortest connecting flight time is 30 hours, 31 minutes on United.
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      The following airlines fly this route: Bonair Exel, American, Avianca, JetBlue Airways, Continental, Delta, United, US Airways.
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[Lifesong]

If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Klaas

I have a feeling that the Dutch delegation that arrived in Chili lickity split following Joran's detainment was all about damage control ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal that he had been forewarned about being extradited to the States to face an extortion charge prior to leaving the Netherlands ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal the truth encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

Janet -

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure that there was no delegation arriving in Chile.  They were personnel from the Dutch embassy that were already there. 

I think it is standard operating procedure that they go and do a health check on any of their citizens arrested in that country.  I've never been arrested here or in another country, so I don't know for sure, but I imagine this is standard procedure for most embassies and not just Hollands/The Netherlands.

JMO

[SunnyinTX]

http://peru21.pe/noticia/491784/suspenden-rec...

They suspended the re-enactment because of too many reporters

Also, Anita arrived

He could spend up to 35 years in prison if he planned her murder

But if he is accused of killing her via a violent reaction, he could get less than 5 years. "Pero si es acusado de homicidio por reacción violenta, la pena podría ser menor a cinco años."

thanks cece...so she is there!  I want to see pictures...I hope she has a bra on and no see through clothing

[thirdstrike]

Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment.

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol

hey Angie!  It's been a while, eh? 

[Northern Rose]

Rebuilding the murder of Stephany Flores was suspended
The large presence of national and foreign press have frustrated police diligence in Miraflores hotel.

Rebuilding the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21) at the hands of citizens Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (22), as part of the police investigation was suspended this afternoon due to the large presence of national and foreign press, reported Channel N.

According to this method, dozens of journalists waiting for the departure of Van der Sloot on the exterior of the Criminal Investigation Department (Dirincri) of the police in downtown Lima. The same thing happened Tac hotel in Miraflores, where the crime occurred, on Sunday 30.

It was learned further that the murderer's mother, Anita van der Sloot, have arrived in Peru to support her son, who yesterday confessed his crime and could face up to 35 years in prison if it is determined that planned the death of the young. But if you are charged with manslaughter for backlash, the penalty could be less than five years.

According to sources from the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE) elcomercio.pe cited by Van der Sloot will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in San Juan de Lurigancho, when the police inquiries concluded the research process.

http://www.generaccion.com/noticia/63859/recontruccion-asesinato-stephany-flores-se-suspendio

[SunnyinTX]

Colombia is really close to Aruba.  Wouldn't take real long to fly there.  I was checking the flights in and out of Aruba.  Check out the name of the aircraft, LOLOL.  Very apropos  (insert laughing emoticon)

thanks Klaas,  knew it was close.  remember checking it out when someone was suggesting Nat was in Columbia.....LOL   FOKKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment.

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol

hey Angie!  It's been a while, eh? 

 He dude! Wazz up !    Nice to see you and others from WAY back and new folks as well ! 

[SunnyinTX]

I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 

yep, the "don't bother my girl" coupled with the do not disturb sign says alot. After-all, he KNEW she was dead. You're right - the passport was the problem and he didn't know how long it would be until she was discovered - so he couldn't take her car far - there would be a BOLO - he was screwed.

Rob....there was no DO NOT DISTURB sign on the door in the videos...just sayin.... that was false.

thanks Nut, I didn't remember seeing any either....but my memory ain't what it used to be <wink>

[TURBOTHINK]

If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Klaas

I have a feeling that the Dutch delegation that arrived in Chili lickity split following Joran's detainment was all about damage control ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal that he had been forewarned about being extradited to the States to face an extortion charge prior to leaving the Netherlands ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal the truth encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

I believe it will all be damage control - there are a lot of people who need to cover their *sses on this one. I am not sure they could be charged with anything because no one has jurisdiction over the Aruba officials there. Maybe the people of Aruba will finally rise up against the corruption, but I don't have much hope on that either.

[SunnyinTX]

apparently JVDS is a martial artist of great skill. In the peruvian newspaper the wrote that the broken neck was the result of a "karate chop" to the neck.

There is a discussion here:

http://www.karateforums.com/going-for-the-neck-break-vt33563.html

 that discusses the possibility of breaking someones neck with a karate chop

"...As far as breaking someone's neck with a karate chop, its not going to happen, certainly not the way you're envisioning it anyways.

The only circumstance in which I know of a broken neck in a fight was when Frank Shamrock fought Igor Zinoviev and slammed him to the ground. Neck breaking techniques are perfectly legal in mixed martial arts and plenty of people have taken shots to the neck in these tournaments. I would blame the whole "broken neck theory" on many 80's ninja and chuck norris movies....."

thanks JE......

[jen3560]

http://peru21.pe/noticia/491784/suspenden-rec...

They suspended the re-enactment because of too many reporters

Also, Anita arrived

He could spend up to 35 years in prison if he planned her murder

But if he is accused of killing her via a violent reaction, he could get less than 5 years. "Pero si es acusado de homicidio por reacción violenta, la pena podría ser menor a cinco años."

thanks cece...so she is there!  I want to see pictures...I hope she has a bra on and no see through clothing

I kinda want to know why the hell he was allowed to talk to Mommy on the phone?  And will he really be able to have a visit with her?  Why??

[MsVada]

I too, did not see Joran hang a do not disturb sign on the door,  he just came out and closed it. 


R U KIDDING?  He could actually end up with only 5 years for this murder if it wasn't premeditated?????????  Thats just wrong!