Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Toler]

In Aruba, Resentment over a Storm of US Media
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 6/8/10 | Todd Wilkinson

Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:12:26 PM by Dr. Scarpetta

A U.S. media storm, generated primarily by cable news outlets Fox and CNN, has descended here, clouding the reputation of this former Dutch colony, many residents and longtime visitors say.

Media critics say that what's missing is perspective. Beyond appreciation for the time it takes for an investigation to proceed, particularly under the nuances of Dutch law, statistics confirm Aruba is far safer than almost all other Caribbean islands.

"Cable TV is treating this as the crime of the century, or at the least, the obsession of the moment," says Howard Kurtz, media critic for The Washington Post in an interview.

"There's undoubtedly been more coverage of Aruba over this disappearance than in the last two decades," says Mr. Kurtz.

"Television has become addicted to melodramas about missing white middle-class women. But even by Laci Peterson standards, the Holloway coverage is being way overdone."

Between recent comments made by Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, and television anchors who have portrayed investigators as the equivalent of bumbling Keystone Kops, many Arubans say they've had enough.

On Wednesday, a crowd of 200 staged a public protest in the capital city against Holloway Twitty's yet unproved criminal allegations against two suspects who have been released from custody.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2530413/posts

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

If it isn't too much trouble ... I would appreciate if you would bring forward that image of Glenda's post from RU blaming Beth for allowing the murder of Stephany to happen ... the post with Elaine's great response.

Thanks

Janet

Is this the one?  I have a few saved:

That is the one!!

Thanks Klaas.

Janet

[SunnyinTX]

Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

[Lifesong]

Ok Jean Casarez is stating she has a new document from Interpol discussing the extortion case with many more details. He contacted Beth to extort money from her in early March of this year, it was his plan and he initiated it - only when he had the money and had been paid, did he admit back that his detail/map that she was buried beneath a house was "a lie".

I was watching too, Nonesuche, great recap! 

They made one other point I thought was interesting and that was that early March was only a couple of weeks after Paulus died.  Which reminded me of a question I wanted to ask here. 

Earlier this afternoon when I couldn't get into the forum I was watching the clip online from Dog the Bountyhunter on Joy Behar's show talking about Joran.  He mentioned the rumors that Joran was threatening suicide after his father died.  Does anyone remember anything about that?  I don't remember hearing that and just wondered where that came from.

[SunnyinTX]

Just an aside about Greta's non-stop pursuit of the FBI, last night on BOR he had a sidebar with Greta regarding that - and played devil's advocate. Bill said it would have taken a fair amount of time for the FBI to get paperwork pushed through approval with Aruba to have arrested Joran, Greta still seemed to disagree so he stated they would "get in touch with the FBI and report their response back on tomorrow night's show".

So might be worth tuning in to see if BOR was able to get that response. BOR also clearly stated Joran is a murdering psychopath. Greta looked very uncomfortable throughout.

thanks None

[BUCKSHOT]

From the words of our good friend, Simian: The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

[Kermit]

Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.

And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).

I was shown how and I was surprised with the right application how to do it, how easy it is.

Stephany Flores Ramirez's brother stated over the phone to Nancy Grace that his sister's eye was missing. Most likely that is due to blunt force trauma - her head being beaten on the wood of that bed. The bruises to her knees and top of her feet, for me, indicate she was on her knees at some point and that was caused by carpet burns wherein she was most likely trying to fight him. She was just a little ity bity thing compared to the size and girth of Joran.

I don't believe Stephany used his computer and find information he had on his computer about Natalee or himself. Joran studies law, his father also was someone they said knew all the laws by memory, Joran went and got coffee to get himself an alibi.

Remember, not long ago Joran was offering on a website to TEACH people poker for a price. I'll venture a guess that when they went to his room, he took out his computer to show her some of his big poker skills.

Something happened and I need to find that date - Joran's mother and brother removed Joran from their facebook. Jen do you have that handy????

Also, we know that Aruba helped Joran cover up the crime to Natalee, so it's not so far-fetched that Joran was tipped off about an arrest for extortion and he fled to Columbia.

Anyways, I know that some of his friends were in Columbia, so it would not surprise me if he had gone there first to join them and then took off for Lima, Peru for the casinos.

He had 10,000.00 cash plus $15,000.00 wired to his account. When he was in custody,
didn't they count out vent y cinco - something like  20 bucks on him. Where's the money?

Do we have an account of what he lost or won in the casino?

[yuknomenot]

"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.

Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"

[Sdb]

In Aruba, Resentment over a Storm of US Media
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 6/8/10 | Todd Wilkinson

Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:12:26 PM by Dr. Scarpetta

A U.S. media storm, generated primarily by cable news outlets Fox and CNN, has descended here, clouding the reputation of this former Dutch colony, many residents and longtime visitors say.

Media critics say that what's missing is perspective. Beyond appreciation for the time it takes for an investigation to proceed, particularly under the nuances of Dutch law, statistics confirm Aruba is far safer than almost all other Caribbean islands.

"Cable TV is treating this as the crime of the century, or at the least, the obsession of the moment," says Howard Kurtz, media critic for The Washington Post in an interview.

"There's undoubtedly been more coverage of Aruba over this disappearance than in the last two decades," says Mr. Kurtz.

"Television has become addicted to melodramas about missing white middle-class women. But even by Laci Peterson standards, the Holloway coverage is being way overdone."

Between recent comments made by Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, and television anchors who have portrayed investigators as the equivalent of bumbling Keystone Kops, many Arubans say they've had enough.

On Wednesday, a crowd of 200 staged a public protest in the capital city against Holloway Twitty's yet unproved criminal allegations against two suspects who have been released from custody.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2530413/posts

Well I guess Mr. Kurtz has never had a missing daughter.

Nuances  **snort**

[nonesuche]

Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

I hope he sells all who were involved in the cover-up in Aruba down the river, the problem now is that no one believes any given 'story' the pathological liar tells. I can see that becoming an obstacle to any 'truth' he might relate.

I do hope the Peruvians find that agreement he stated to Greta was in existence with the Kalpoe's attorney, defining the deal for him to keep his mouth shut and they would pay him one million when they won their case against Dr Phil - remember he states it was a document he received over the internet from their attorney.

Or it could be one more of his thousands of lies......

[Kermit]

Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

That is exactly what is most-likely taking place and we're trying to stop it. Say a prayer.
So those who covered-up in Aruba will be caught. Just say a prayer.

[Anna]

Remember that Peru does not cut a deal for a confession unless they first need the confession to solve the case.  They don't.  Second, the confession has to be honest and sincere and able to be verified.  Joran's isn't.  So just for confessing, Joran is not going to get any special deal.

IMO and how I read the conditions for confessions.  Joran's just doesn't meet the criteria for reduction of sentence.

[Bearlyhere]

I just don't believe she went on his laptop and he killed her for that.  Surely he would have had a password on that computer. And...wouldn't most of his stuff been in Dutch, English or Piamento (sp?).  She speaks Spanish (don't know if she understands Dutch or English).

Anyway...all of that info was old stuff and WHY would it be a surprise to her as we've already heard that she and her sister were talking about Joran some time back.

There's more to it and I believe he's lying like always.

He's trying to make it seem like he should be charged with manslaughter and not murder.

He's a liar...it'll never change.  NEVER.

I believe he killed her and he admitted that because he can't get out of it and if he confesses, he gets about 5 years less prison time than if he doesn't confess. 

It's all about getting the least amount of sentence at this time.
He's cut his losses (an old gambling pun)


 

That is a misprint.  Her cousin and his friend were talking about Joran, Stephany was not involved in the discussion if you listen to her cousin on tape.  Some news person transcribed the tape wrong and it has taken on a life of its own.

[Anna]

Kermit,

I got my miracle, lol.  But I have also been wondering what happened to all that extortion money.

Did he already have some very pressing gambling debts and it went to pay them?  Because he was flat broke in Peru oddly enough. 

[Kermit]

Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

[blah]

Is Red gonna be on geraldo tonight?

[Tamikosmom]

This woman must be related to the Anthony family.....................


His mother named Anita Van Der Sloot has talked to his son over the phone on the very day of Thursday when he was actually arrested by the Chili police but she did not send a single word out as to what their conversation was all about. The Anita Van Der Sloot only sent one signal out and that was the very fact that her son is not at all a criminal and he has not murdered anyone as well as the family is now looking forward to have a lawyer.

http://www.makli.com/anita-van-der-sloot-0042514/

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005
 
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: I'm sorry! Something he told me last night, that he still didn't believe it was true. And he said, Mom, don't worry, because I was crying and he was really hugging me. He said, The truth will come forward, and I know that I didn't do anything to the girl. And the truth will come forward. And he was so strong.

And I believe in him. I believe so in him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

[Bearlyhere]

This one has it right.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37485355/ns/today-today_people/?ns=today-today_people

Only a month ago, a friend of Rafael Vertiz told him about a Dutch man suspected in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Now the same man, Joran van der Sloot, is being sought in the vicious murder of Vertiz’s 21-year-old cousin, Stephany Flores, in Peru.

Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37485355/ns/today-today_people/?ns=today-today_people#ixzz0qIu9eDMY

[JE]

"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.

Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"

To get an idea of how the dutch feel about JVDS scroll down to read the reactions to this article

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6893537%2F___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html%3Fcid%3Dshort&sl=nl&tl=en

[Anna]

If Aruba should be allowed to interrogate Joran after refusing to do so for five years, I hope and do think the Peruvians are savvy enough to be present and taking notes.  So far they have been on top of things in a very professional and dignified manner.  It might be the Peruvians who get information instead of the Arubans.

But no private conversations for Joran the Barbarian at all, please!