Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[carpe noctem]

Knowing who he is, I think that`s BS.

Considering the sentence for robbery with homicide...

I hope they blow a hole in the side of him a mile wide.

FINISH HIM.

His days are done.

in my humble opinion, Joran is just a criminal - and he goes with whatever crime is available.

a little robbery, some sexual assault, and a homicide here and there.

and that's why he needed an apartment full of new furniture - see, when he operates he leaves a huge crime scene behind.

he leaves video, text messages, cell calls, blood evidence, triangulation records - he's no mastermind. Just impulsive.

he goes with whatever HE thinks he can get away with.

That`s where it happened. Yep!

[Rob]

Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

[MisGivings]

Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces

For Anita, they'll need to trade in the tomatoes for watermelons.

[klaasend]

What is the story re: J's extortion of money from the Holloways?  Was he that stupid to think they wouldn't trying to be setting him up?

It appears he was either that stupid or that desperate for money

[Tamikosmom]

Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

I have no doubt that Joran will be provided with a high profile Dutch attorney courtesy of the Netherlands.

When all is said and done ... I have no doubt that Joran will be afforded the legal right to serve his sentence in a prison/mental hospital located in the Netherlands.  The Dutch/Aruban "powers that be" have no choice but continue to protect Joran or ... eliminate him.

This young man along with the Kalpoes know too much in regards to those who participated in the Auban/Dutch cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for the past five years in the Natalee Holloway's case.  The far reaching implications of the truth being revealed is not an option.
 
The only bright light is that something akin to Natalee Holloway's family ... Stephany's family will not be silenced.  "Corruption in Paradise" will forever haunt Aruba.

In My Opinion.

Janet

[cece]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

[SunnyinTX]

Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

[Tamikosmom]

What is the story re: J's extortion of money from the Holloways?  Was he that stupid to think they wouldn't trying to be setting him up?

Obviously ... after five years ... Joran van der Sloot still does not comprehended the emotional strength of Beth Holloway.  Rather than embrace the possibility of that she could be afforded the opportunity to bring her precious daughter home to rest on American soil ... Beth is able to grasp the entire picture and ... act accordingly.

Out of desperation/hope ... I do not know if I could have been as strong as Beth in the same situation.

Janet

[Rob]

Janet, I agree with your previous post. Will Peru bow to the pressure? and it will come from every angle the Dutch can muster.

It will be a battle of wills. Will Peru act as a sovereign nation and follow their OWN laws? or cave into Dutch pressure?

I'm not very hopeful at this point. I hope I am wrong.

In my heart, the 'he's mentally deranged' - 'mental hospital' is where it's at for the Dutch. This is THE angle.

[cece]

http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-serial-killer.html

Monday, June 7, 2010
Joran van der Sloot: A Serial Killer?

by Pat Brown

[lefty1062]

Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183

The brief glimpse of him with his shirt off getting his medical exam is in this film.  It appears to show scrmarks on both sides of his chest, near his shoulders. Maybe Klaas can do a screen capture, I would if I could!

I am so far behind, but couldn't resis commenting on this pic. He looks like he is having another "oops...I crapped my pants" moment.

[SunnyinTX]

Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

I have no doubt that Joran will be provided with a high profile Dutch attorney courtesy of the Netherlands.

When all is said and done ... I have no doubt that Joran will be afforded the legal right to serve his sentence in a prison/mental hospital located in the Netherlands.  The Dutch/Aruban "powers that be" have no choice but continue to protect Joran or ... eliminate him.

This young man along with the Kalpoes know too much in regards to those who participated in the Auban/Dutch cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for the past five years in the Natalee Holloway's case.  The far reaching implications of the truth being revealed is not an option.
 
The only bright light is that something akin to Natalee Holloway's family ... Stephany's family will not be silenced.  "Corruption in Paradise" will forever haunt Aruba.

In My Opinion.

Janet

Janet, I agree..... told y'all I had a bad feeling about all this.....and  I still have it....and every time conflicting information comes out it reinforces it.  Why hasn't the video of joran leaving and returning to the room with the coffee been released?

 

[Magnolia]

Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

I totally agree, Sunny.

[Port Valerie]

Elton is going to be accused before this is over.

[Rob]

One thing I have learned from watching these diabolical cretins over there years - whatever the situation, make it happen.

He's mentally deranged - out come all of Joran psych records dating back to when he was a lil boy.

He's a sporter - out come the tennis tournaments.

He's a terrific student - out comes people sayin' he's a wonderful student and way above average.

He's no rapist - out comes the mother to say how loving he is with all his girlfriends.

He has dreams and wants to go to college - away he goes to Holland to fulfill his dreams.

He doesn't gamble, doesn't smoke, doesn't do drugs ....

nevermind none of that was even remotely true. None.

no matter what the story, no matter what the situation - there is always something to say otherwise, who cares if anyone believes it or if there is any evidence to support it.

[BUCKSHOT]

Every crime leaves behind evidence.

In 2005, Joran had the benefit of home-town cooking. His well-connected father was instrumental in making the evidence disappear, with help from his associates.  Unfortunately, law enforcement became more concerned with hiding the crime and was driven by protecting their tourism dollars. The game was rigged as justice could never be attained for a poor family, who only sought a proper burial for their deceased daughter.

Fast forward the clock 5 years to the year 2010. A crime has been committed on foreign soil. Same as before, evidence exists. Unlike 2005, there will be no one there to make it disappear. No doubt about it, the case files will contain surveillance footage from the casino, exiting the casino, entering the hotel with SF, exiting the hote; without SF a few hours later, a coroner's report of an estimated time of death, toxicology reports, bloody shoe prints, victim blood on Joran, murder weapon, DNA evidence, laptop, and much more.

Too bad for Joran, there will be no bottomless evidence drawer, no 10 day head start, no false arrests, no Jan Van derStraaten, no disinformation campaign, no witness intimidation, no judicial friends and favors, no new concrete around the pool, no new furniture, no CAPSLOCKWIZARD, no cell phone in jail, nor a lot of other unmentioned perks.

A foreign (Dutch/Aruban) citizen enters Peru and commits a heinous crime against the daughter of a well-known Peruvian citizen. They will ensure a fair trial for Joran, according to acceptable standards. He will pay for this crime. Law enforcement is taking it serious. Joran VanderSloot is no one special to them, just a foreigner who has committed a crime against one of its own.

Behind the scenes, due to his notoriety, his (soon-to-be) new roomates at jail facility probably have some surprises in store for him. Might even include a new game or two (Drop the Soap, etc). He is going to pay a dear price for his latest actions.

Just my humble opinions...

[wingnut]

By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"

[Anna]

GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.

[Tylergal]

2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.

And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

You're not alone.

[Tylergal]

Girdle van Susteren is blaming the FBI.

klaas, can you ban her from Fox? do you have that power? please tell me you do.

Well, you know there is blame for their neglect on the extortion thingie, and yes the money that Beth gave Joran, when the FBI should have nabbed him, allowed him to move about.... Who is directing the FBI?  I think it falls under the DoJ, probably NOI.