Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Shan1628]

Maybe I'm confused (nothing new) but wasn't there another man with Joran at the casino?  What happened to him??

Elton Garcia (35) since May was staying at the hotel where it was found the body of Stephany Flores
Accompanied Albanian citizen Joran van der Sloot in poker competition

The Albanian citizen Elton Garcia (35) shared gaming table with the young Stephany Flores and his alleged murderer, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at a poker international competition took place in our capital.

García, Uruguayan citizen, was staying since May in the same hotel where Van der Sloot and the girl was found Stephany. The police summoned as witnesses in Dirincri under investigation to clarify the murder occurred on Sunday.

According to his statement, Garcia knew nothing of the Netherlands since last weekend and decided to go in their search late Tuesday 1 June. That night I searched the Atlantic City hotel and then went to the hotel Tac where an employee told him in a room with Van der Sloot police had pulled the body of a young girl.

The police questioned him at the place and showed him a picture of the corpse which confirmed that it was Stephany. In addition, he said, recognized in the hotel security cameras to Joran entering the young Flores.

The alleged bid of $ 5,000 would have lost playing poker with Stephany, Eliot Garcia said nothing but said the daughter of Ricardo Flores won motorist S /. 2,000 in gambling in early May.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490019/ciudadano-albanes-acompano-joran-van-der-sloot-competencia-poker       justaMILF

Thanks so much, MisGivings, definitely clarified a lot for me

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

Mine either.

The enemy ... whose mission has been to prevent justice from prevailing for five years ... may have appeared to work together with the FBI in the sting involving extortion but ... when all was said and done extradiction to the United States where Joran may be inclined to reveal all was never an option as far as the Dutch/Aruban.

Janet

[cece]

Joran van der Sloot - 6/7/10 HLN

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jaPN9hTVUXA&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/jaPN9hTVUXA&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;border=1</a>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPN9hTVUXA

[thirdstrike]

I think everyone is getting a little too excited about these conflicting reports regarding this case.  Believe you me, this guy is going to DIE in a Peruvian Prison.  There is no way the Dutch or anyone else will be able to manipulate the system the way the Arubans have in the past.  And if what I hear is true about the bloody clothes they found in his bag, he's dead to rights with regards to his guilt...

Let's all take a deep breath and celebrate what's going on right now in Peru.  It's the beginning of the end for dear old Joran!!

[Northern Rose]

Joran van der Sloot has not formally requested a lawyer Dutchman
Representatives of the Consulate of the Netherlands visited the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores on Saturday Dirincri

The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has not formally requested a lawyer of his country to their consulate, embassy sources in the Netherlands in Lima.

According to sources, who preferred anonymity, representatives of the consulate on Saturday visited Dutchman Joran van der Sloot to Dirincri headquarters, where he is being held, and found him in good health.

Spokesmen for the embassy said that the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores (21) made no request for legal assistance, as speculated in various media.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491130/joran-van-der-sloot-no-ha-pedido-oficialmente-abogado-holandes?utm_source=Ps&utm_medium=twitter

[Magnolia]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!

But he took her car.  That tells me that he knew she was dead when he left.

[MisGivings]

By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"

Mi butt duele

[SunnyinTX]

Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

[sleddogs]

By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"

mis daños de extremo

[thirdstrike]

Wait, I'm confused.  Riddle me this, Batman...It's quite obvious that they have clear surviellance tapes of his entering and leaving the hotel room.  Am I correct there?  If that's the case, isn't it as simple as them both entering togetrher, and him leaving alone?  There is no other signs of anyone else entering the room.  Again, am I correct there?  If that's the case, how can it even be argued that he committed this act?  Again, if what I said is true, that's all one would need to convict...right?  Even Aruba couldn't f*** this one up...

[cece]

Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?

[Puzzler]

GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.

Oh....I thought Greta didn't have any children...

[Anna]

This is an article posted on Radio Netherlands Worldwide.

Notice their biased slant:

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public


Joran van der Sloot - Peru makes evidence public
Published on : 7 June 2010 - 5:33pm | By Sebastiaan Gottlieb (Photo: ANP)



The media in Peru has already decided that Dutchman Joran van der Sloot is guilty of murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores. After he was handed over to Peruvian police officials, Joran van der Sloot was paraded before the press three times. Video footage of his first hearing can also be found on the internet. The Dutch foreign ministry is considering its reaction.
 
Peruvian Interior Minister Octavio Salazar has guaranteed that Joran van der Sloot will be given a fair trial. However, meanwhile all kinds of evidence against the Dutchman has been made public.
 
The Peruvian police say initial forensic investigations clearly indicate Joran van der Sloot's involvement int the murder. Police say the victim was beaten to death with a tennis racket. There is video footage showing the suspect and the young woman arriving at his hotelin the Peruvian capital, Lima.

Natalee Holloway
Joran van der Sloot is already a well-known figure in the United States, the Netherlands and in Aruba, for he has been the main suspect for several years in the case of the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba in 2005.

It is still not known what actually happened to Ms Holloway, and Joran van der Sloot has not been formally charged in connection with her disappearance.
 
No protest
The Dutch embassy in Peru, contrary to earlier reports, has not protested against the release of incriminating evidence. The foreign ministry is still considering whether it will give an official reaction to how the case is being handled. A spokesperson for the ministry told Radio Netherlands Worldwide: "I have asked at the ministry how we should deal with this."
 
Generally, the Netherlands never interferes with legal processes in other countries, but there may well be reason to protest in this case. After all, the suspect claims he's innocent of murdering Stephany Flores.
 
His American lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, has come to his assistance. He asked on Peruvian television how it was possible that the body of Ms Flores could have been in Joran van der Sloot's hotel room for three days without anyone noticing.
 
Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands do not have a mutual treaty for the return of nationals to serve their sentences in their home nation. Although negotiations for the transfer of prisoners have been taking place, it is not clear when agreement might be reached.
 
Even if such a treaty is agreed after his possible conviction, Joran van der Sloot will be able to apply to be transferred back to the Netherlands on condition that the two countries have no objections and the convicted person also agrees. It is too early to say whether Peru would cooperate with a transfer.
 
Robbery
It looks as if robbery was the motive of the murder. Ms Flores' father says jewellery was missing. An amount of 1,000 dollars. which he had given her to buy a laptop, was not found on the victim or in the hotel room.
 
Joran van der Sloot is being held in a police cell in Lima. His custody has been extended for a further seven days. A cell has been reserved for him at the infamous high security Castro Castro prison, which has some 4,000 inmates.

In Lima, stories are circulating about how inmates deal with rapists and murderers of children and women within the prison walls. If Joran van der Sloot is found guilty of murder with robbery, he could facing a 25-year sentence. 
 

Cece, This bias is what is going to cause me to pull out my hair yet.  Where's that icon when I need it!

The Dutch seem to think that because they post only initials of suspects (in reverse order according to CapslockLiar) that other countries share this idea that secrecy is afforded suspects.  They would be totally shocked at the openess of courts like in Florida where they have the Sunshine laws.  They do not advocate for an open court as most of the rest of the world does.

And yet we saw the most corrupt judicial system ever in their protectorate Aruba so we know their little secrecy doesn't work. 

They are in NO POSITION to say anything about the judicial practices of other countries especially in this instance because this girl would be alive if not for their utter failure when Joran killed Natalee.

This girl's blood is on the hands of Joran and Aruba with its Dutch judicial system so they need to really just shut up at this point.

And the extradition bit makes me want to vomit!  I hope this will never be allowed to happen as it will only be a sham sentence then with Joran likely given all manner of comfort and not even truly detained.

Keep him in Peru and make him serve every day that he lives of his sentence.  I don't think Peru is going to be as easy to bully as the Dutch are hoping.

[thirdstrike]

Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?

...and that's another thing that confuses me.  In this country, once someone is arrested, they don't get to riffle through their own stuff.  They are entered into evidence, and one would get possession of it after they are either aquitted, or serve their time.  Maybe it's just me though...

Thoughts?

[Tamikosmom]

Natalee Holloway's uncle realized the folly of working with the Aruban  enemy and expecting a positive result in the quest for justice regarding his precious niece.  His posts were concerning the Persistence undertaking but ... the principle revealed is absolute.

Why does the FBI not get it!

In My Opinion

Janet

++++++

Federal charges in Alabama will await van der Sloot, if he is not charged in murder case in Peru
June 03, 2010, 8:22PM

Aruban authorities were helpful to the FBI in its extortion investigation, Vance said.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/federal_charges_in_alabama_wil.html


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

Sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

[MisGivings]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyi-CFZRoZ0

[Blonde]

It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.

Agreed - and what reputation they had has all been blown on Joran.

They need to learn how to pick and choose their battles better.

As far as that worthless over-sized diddling twat, Anita.

Every Aruban would be best off telling her to go pound sand in her shorts.

Carpe did you see this lol

[Jo-An]

Peter R de Vries on tv right now.
He was on vacation when he heard about the case.
He thinks it's remarkable that Joran was paraded around before the press, but that's just common practice in Peru. In the Netherlands the trial would be void if that happened.
The hotel footage is very incriminating if indeed that is the only footage.
There is no indication that someone else was in the room. Or Joran would have to make up a story of someone hiding under the bed or something.
Joran was in a lot of debt (gambling).
For the last two years he has been begging for money from family, friends. Always coming up with heartbreaking excuses why he needed money (lost his wallet, passport)
Peter has the MSN-log of Joran and a friend in the Netherlands.
Again desperately begging for money to buy food.
MSN log with freind in Holland.
In Peter's opinion this was not a sexual offence but it was all about taking Stephany's money.
She probably said no, and that's when he snapped.

Says Beth Holloway is overwhelmed about what's happening in Peru and the similarities between the two cases.
Joran will only reveal more details about Natalee for his own gain, in order to try and make a deal.
But only for opportunistic reasons.

Peter says he's a psychopath, a narcisist.

The host asks if he is still in contact with Joran's family.
He says no, I'm not very popular with them.

Our MP is on the talkshow as well and says that Joran will be treated like all Dutch people who are detained abroad.
No special treatment for him.

[Lifesong]

I keep reading these theories that maybe Joran lost money to Stephany in the casino and she then went to his hotel room with him to collect that money.

I've been waiting for someone else to explain this, but no one else has so I just want to clarify that when you gamble in a casino, unless you are a known high roller, you use cash.  Period.

How you come by that cash is your business, whether you bring it with you, use an atm, take an advance on a credit card, whatever.  Joran would have had to use cash to purchase chips to play cards in the casino. 

No young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino would loan money to a stranger to play cards against him.  Let me repeat that.  Regardless of how well off and/or how sheltered, any young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino is savvy enough not to loan money to other gamblers.

This is just my opinion, and of course I have no idea why she went to his hotel room with him.  I just find it highly unlikely that she went to collect on money he'd lost to her while playing cards.  She would've already collected that money at the table in chips.

JMO and only MO