Lively Case Discussion #580 2/1 - 2/4/2007

[LilPuma]

I think some people are born evil,but an enabling event triggers or activates this behavior.

IIRC, they studied the brain of Richard Speck after he died in prison.  They found that the portion of the brain that deals with emotions was signficantly smaller than that of an average person.  In other words, he had no feelings for anyone or anything.

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

BOC on a sweep! Not too many banana peels to night!  

[SunFreak2]

I am sitting here dumbfounded regarding Kaitlin.  I'm glad she has been found but prayed for the outcome to be different.  I hope her little body has all the evidence needed to hang the creep by the short & curlies.

It astounds me that everyday there are people hurting children, women, elderly and helpless animals.  We always read about it, but rarely does it strike so close to home.  When I was doing my Residency, the 16 yo boy accross the street murdered their live-in tenant who reportedly was trying to sexually abuse him.  That was the last time I ever had those thoughts that it couldn't/wouldn't happen in my neighborhood.

God Speed Kaitlin, and have mercy on her Mother.  My heart is broken for this family.  My prayers go up for this family in their time of need.  If the family needs help with expenses, I would be most willing to contribute.

[LilPuma]

BOC on a sweep! Not too many banana peels to night!  

I'm eating pears, oranges and blueberries these days, not bananas.    I also think Tibro helps to keep things tidy.  I really hate when things get messy.  

[BTgirl]

Evening monkeys.

As many of you know, I work for a program that tries to help low-income pre-school children. It's a very sad fact that we have 4-year-old children who are totally out of control and who are already needing mental health professionals to work with them. They do whatever they want at home, and their parents allow it to happen. If people don't learn to take control of their children again, I'm very much afraid we are going to see more sad stories in the future.  

[SunFreak2]

Evening monkeys.

As many of you know, I work for a program that tries to help low-income pre-school children. It's a very sad fact that we have 4-year-old children who are totally out of control and who are already needing mental health professionals to work with them. They do whatever they want at home, and their parents allow it to happen. If people don't learn to take control of their children again, I'm very much afraid we are going to see more sad stories in the future.  

BT - you are so right.  I used to do Head STart physicals on the children.  Most of these kids at 4 and 5 years old could not count to 10, or identify colors and shapes.  Most could not recite the beginning of the alphabet.  It truly is sad that their parents couldn't find the time to teach their child these simple lessons.  If the parent isn't disciplined enough to take care of their child properly and give them a good start, then how can we expect them to teach the child right from wrong and instill in the child a sense of love and self esteem?

[Rob]

New Evidence in the Adam Walsh case.
Connects Jeffery Damner to the case.

Damner in car and at mall on day Adam disappears.

Blue van involved.

Damner used van.

[BTgirl]

Evening monkeys.

As many of you know, I work for a program that tries to help low-income pre-school children. It's a very sad fact that we have 4-year-old children who are totally out of control and who are already needing mental health professionals to work with them. They do whatever they want at home, and their parents allow it to happen. If people don't learn to take control of their children again, I'm very much afraid we are going to see more sad stories in the future.  

BT - you are so right.  I used to do Head STart physicals on the children.  Most of these kids at 4 and 5 years old could not count to 10, or identify colors and shapes.  Most could not recite the beginning of the alphabet.  It truly is sad that their parents couldn't find the time to teach their child these simple lessons.  If the parent isn't disciplined enough to take care of their child properly and give them a good start, then how can we expect them to teach the child right from wrong and instill in the child a sense of love and self esteem?

Even more basic than that, SunFreak, is that there is no order or restraint in some of the children's lives. They have a difficult time with routine when they first come to our program because they've never been given any kind of schedule at home. They do whatever they want, whenever they want. I have to think if things don't change that we'll see more of them as teens doing the same kinds of things we've seen done to innocent tourists on Aruba.

[nonesuche]

hi everyone-

I see the child Kaitlin must be the neighbor of Cubbee's that several of you emailed me about, how horribly tragic - poor Cubbee must be distraught too.

All these lovely children have to die at the hands of these monsters in such horrible circumstances, I struggle reconciling this even with faith.

Jeffrey Damner? Perish the thought he ever touched that child Adam Walsh.....

Just wanted to let Klaas and others know mom is sailing thru the kidney removal, just a champ at 76 years of age. thanks for all the emails asking, she's resting well and bouncing back nicely already.

take care all !

[crazybabyborg]

One of these days, I'm going to change my avatar to Pollyanna, but here goes:
I sincerely believe that nothing that happens to us in childhood is poured in concrete for the rest of our lives. Childhood abuse and tragedy just sets the hurdles; how hard we train ourselves to jump well, is our choice.

Crazybaby is very creative and talented and very very smart.  I agree with the rest of your post also, but given that we hear so many excuses from people these days for their own behavior, this jumped out at me.  And it's not just childhood hardships that put those hurdles out there.  We are responsible for OUR OWN actions, no matter what others have or are doing.  People who have been abused, often grow up to abuse.  That's fact.  But they know that what they're doing is wrong; they lie about it so they do know.  Not getting some kind of help to stop the cruel behavior towards children, spouses, elderly parents, animals or total strangers is inexcusable.

Lil Puma, I've known for almost 20 years, through accidental knowledge from the minister at my church, that a fellow member sought counselling for inappropriate sexual fantasies and urges. The man is approximately  50 yrs old at this point, and has never married. He is an extremely hard worker in all church functions, an avid attender of Bible studies outside of "Sunday", and a joy to be around. I've never told anyone about what I came to be aware of, and so maybe I'm the only one that notices the only functions he doesn't volunteer for, or always has a conflict that makes him unavailable for, is youth group activities. He'll help build the playground, or donate to the summer trips, but he's always absent from the actual activities.

I know of three patients who have been in therapy for 10-15 years and began before age 20, to self support their decision to address thoughts that they felt they couldn't control in the beginning. Without exception, they have chosen to remain in therapy even though their struggle has diminished to the point that other things are usually the topic of sessions. Each of these men have built a life that includes a healthy array of choices in their life. It may be that I live in the traditional "Bible Belt", but all are active in church, interested and vested in their jobs, and actively living life. One is rather recently married, and insisted on his wife to be to accompany him to therapy before they said "I Do". He's never been happier, and cried harder than the bride's mother at the wedding!

The point is, these guys, without exception, have never hurt anyone, recognized that something was wrong, and made a choice to seek help. I'm aware that there's been a difference of opinion among the therapists as to whether one really needs to keep coming, but it's a moot point. He won't stop, admits it may be a "crutch" and recognizes that he hasn't been tormented by inappropriate thoughts in years. It doesn't matter, he will not stop attending. His insurance stopped paying years ago, and it doesn't matter. His "infrastructure" that he created by choice, has brought him happiness and he's not about to change a thing. He'd be the first to say that he's been blessed to "add" to his life, but the foundation has to remain strong to support the build up.

[Bobo2]

New Evidence in the Adam Walsh case.
Connects Jeffery Damner to the case.

Damner in car and at mall on day Adam disappears.

Blue van involved.

Damner used van.

Wouldn't he have been very young at the time of Adam's disappearance and murder?

[Rob]

New Evidence in the Adam Walsh case.
Connects Jeffery Damner to the case.

Damner in car and at mall on day Adam disappears.

Blue van involved.

Damner used van.

Wouldn't he have been very young at the time of Adam's disappearance and murder?

Adam was murdered in 91... so Damner is a likely candidate and there is emerging evidence in the case... more will be known very shortly. John Walsh wants the case reopened and Damner re-investigated. Witnesses place
Damner at the scene.

[klaasend]

hi everyone-

I see the child Kaitlin must be the neighbor of Cubbee's that several of you emailed me about, how horribly tragic - poor Cubbee must be distraught too.

All these lovely children have to die at the hands of these monsters in such horrible circumstances, I struggle reconciling this even with faith.

Jeffrey Damner? Perish the thought he ever touched that child Adam Walsh.....

Just wanted to let Klaas and others know mom is sailing thru the kidney removal, just a champ at 76 years of age. thanks for all the emails asking, she's resting well and bouncing back nicely already.

take care all !

Great news about your mom!

I'm pretty down right now after what this monster did to Kaitlin.  Watched a movie but it didn't help.  Probably won't be posting alot tonight.

[SunFreak2]

Evening monkeys.

As many of you know, I work for a program that tries to help low-income pre-school children. It's a very sad fact that we have 4-year-old children who are totally out of control and who are already needing mental health professionals to work with them. They do whatever they want at home, and their parents allow it to happen. If people don't learn to take control of their children again, I'm very much afraid we are going to see more sad stories in the future.  

BT - you are so right.  I used to do Head STart physicals on the children.  Most of these kids at 4 and 5 years old could not count to 10, or identify colors and shapes.  Most could not recite the beginning of the alphabet.  It truly is sad that their parents couldn't find the time to teach their child these simple lessons.  If the parent isn't disciplined enough to take care of their child properly and give them a good start, then how can we expect them to teach the child right from wrong and instill in the child a sense of love and self esteem?

Even more basic than that, SunFreak, is that there is no order or restraint in some of the children's lives. They have a difficult time with routine when they first come to our program because they've never been given any kind of schedule at home. They do whatever they want, whenever they want. I have to think if things don't change that we'll see more of them as teens doing the same kinds of things we've seen done to innocent tourists on Aruba.

Maybe I didn't express it right, but I think the first thing missing in these kids lives is love.  I wonder if these kids have ever been hugged or comforted?  And what is saddest, I think, is that many of these children have a parent that doesn't work outside the home, yet that parent can't find the time to love and teach their child "yes & no" and "right & wrong" let alone colors & shapes, numbers & letters.   That means the parent is not spending time with the child or is there only physically, not mentally or emotionally.

[crazybabyborg]

New Evidence in the Adam Walsh case.
Connects Jeffery Damner to the case.

Damner in car and at mall on day Adam disappears.

Blue van involved.

Damner used van.

Wouldn't he have been very young at the time of Adam's disappearance and murder?

That's what I was thinking..........when was Adam killed?

[Bobo2]

According to Wikipedia - birthdate May 21, 1960.
Adam abducted July 27, 1981.

Yes, I guess he would have been old enough, and certainly capable of such evil.

[crazybabyborg]

I just went to look up Dahmer's age, but I just can't do it. I'm like Klaas.......just down. I read a sentence or two and hit overload. It's just too much!

[crazybabyborg]

According to Wikipedia - birthdate May 21, 1960.
Adam abducted July 27, 1981.

Yes, I guess he would have been old enough, and certainly capable of such evil.

Thanks, Bobo. Yeah, he would have been old enough.............
geeez..........

[Rob]

I'm pretty down right now after what this monster did to Kaitlin.  Watched a movie but it didn't help.  Probably won't be posting alot tonight.

Klaas-
Im pretty down right now too... I dont know how this family will deal. It seems Ms. Aydell is going to need all the support she can get.

This one was hard than most for some reason. Guess maybe because it was Cubbee's neighbor...or maybe it was Kaitlin's smile. I dont know... its so hard to accept.

[Sue]

The Adam Walsh Story

On July 27, 1981, 6-year-old Adam Walsh and his mother Revé went to a department store about a mile away from their home to shop for lamps. When they entered the store Adam saw several children playing video games on a television monitor and asked if he could stay to play. His mother let him stay and went to the lamp department, which was about 75 feet away. Because the lamp she wanted was not in stock she returned rather quickly, less than 10 minutes later, but couldn’t find Adam. After looking for Adam on her own for two hours, someone finally called the local police department. By the end of that week thousands of fliers with Adam’s photograph were distributed through the local area. Sixteen days after Adam disappeared from the store his body was found and identified.