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Author Topic: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #1 6/5/10 - 6/30/10  (Read 561542 times)
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JessStar
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« Reply #480 on: June 16, 2010, 03:39:45 PM »

As a quick example (that post was getting a little long), one element the prosecution would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt is that when Phipps tried to grab the boy, at that very moment he intended to "interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty."  Given what we know, there's no way that can be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt."  Indeed, Phipps would say he just intended to stop the boy to tell him he shouldn't be walking home alone. Yes, I'm being tongue in cheek, but for what it's worth, any defense attorney worth his/her weight in salt could win that case.


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« Reply #481 on: June 16, 2010, 03:49:29 PM »

Jess what are your thoughts about an assult charge or stalking? The person in he car states they saw this man walking behind this boy, the boy states he reached out and tried to grab him. The child was not asking to be touched or reached out to and given the child ran makes it understood the child believed he was in danger. If this man is a SO with a history of assult on children, then wouldn't this act put him in violation?
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Itaryl Moosee
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« Reply #482 on: June 16, 2010, 04:21:29 PM »

Pamomma, you bring some valid points.

However, since the father, step-father, or bio-mom haven't posted any pictures online (that we know of), and the step-mom did, we can only comment and judge on what she has posted.

When she uploaded the pictures to the public domain, she sorta opened herself to the inquiries.

IMO

------

I wish to think that Kyron was taken by someone who will treat him right, and that the police eventually will figure out where he is and who has him, and he will be rescued.

But, the person who "took" him seems to have come and gone inside of a school without calling attention to him/herself... obviously with no good intentions in mind.

As I try to see these two families as the victims of a very serious crime, I also have to keep an objective mind and think only on the child and question EVERYONE who could have had access to the boy right before and when he went missing.

The perpetrator drove to the school in a vehicle, at some point he/she had a close contact with the child, and at another point he/she drove off from the school grounds with the child inside the vehicle.

The perpetrator did all that without calling the attention of anyone in the busy school that morning.

The unconfirmed rumors (the white truck, the appointment, the substitute, the electrical project, the footprint in Sauvie Island, etc...) are just that, rumors. But, as we have seen in similar cases in the past, those rumors most times tend to be true when all is said and done.

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« Reply #483 on: June 16, 2010, 04:23:48 PM »

Did Kyron’s step mother usually bring him to school everyday, or was it only June 4th that she drove him to school because of the science fair?

the reason I’m asking this is because I’m wondering if someone could have followed them and knew their habits of bringing Kyron to school everyday. I also think its important to note that the police are also looking for any surveillance videos from 6/3-6/4.

maybe this perpetrator was practicing, mapping out how long it would take for him to get out of the immediate area with Kyron.

also, what if its a family member or family friend who doesn’t live in the immediate area, but they are trying to figure out if they can place this person in the area in the day before Kyron disappeared.

or, maybe they want the surveillance from june 3rd to try to poke a hole in a poi’s alibi, proving that they were in the area when they are saying they aren’t..
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« Reply #484 on: June 16, 2010, 04:27:40 PM »

Trying to keep up. I have been checking the news as frequent as I am able -for Kyron.

TracyGirl, Newfie, Darla.. anyone else I missed - Thank you for your replies to my situation within the public schools. I am with you "All" for your children and grandchildren, in support.

I still find something is not being said within the School itself. Liability is what it is and with the economy the way it is. With schools closing all over the US ..without notice. The schools being consolidated into one area - even if the children have to be bussed across town. The Teacher's are the one's who are being cut off and are left with nothing. Do we know if there has been any talks of " Consolidating" within Kyron's area? That no teacher at any school within the district would want to make waves - for fear of being unemployed. Especially the ones that are short years away from tenure. Throwing thoughts out.

This Perp who grabbed this other boy, who is a registered SO. I read he is homeless. Did he at one time have to report to rehab/counseling within his probation. ( From his first offense) That there is a person " SO Probation Officer"  that he had to meet with. That would understand his MO. That this officer would be able to offer " LE / FBI " inner knowledge of how his brain doesn't work. That possibly this guy was evaluated prior by a professional.
 
Its all so disturbing. All of it. Kyron I am thinking of You. We All Are.





 
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Deenie
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« Reply #485 on: June 16, 2010, 04:34:20 PM »

One more mention that goes along with the Monkey's post - back ( about Kyron's Step Mom working within the public schools)

Who took all the photo's of Kyron at School. That are posted all over the news. Seems like the majority of Kyron's ( up to date ) photo's are all within a school setting and or field trip/educational setting. Not at home or ..just snapped during every day life.

Slide show - Photos of Kyron http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003676-7.html?tag=page

Again just throwing out thoughts.
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« Reply #486 on: June 16, 2010, 05:50:16 PM »

Does anyone associated with the school know if there WAS an electrical project on display at the science fair?
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« Reply #487 on: June 16, 2010, 06:36:45 PM »

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96504899.html

Can't be related can it?  Who else is missing in this area?

Fisherman finds human jaw bone on McKenzie River island
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« Reply #488 on: June 16, 2010, 06:50:41 PM »

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96504899.html

Can't be related can it?  Who else is missing in this area?

Fisherman finds human jaw bone on McKenzie River island
Oh no, thank-you.
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« Reply #489 on: June 16, 2010, 07:30:12 PM »

Jess my post came up after your 2nd post was being typed. In other words, I commented prior to your being done typing!

So here is my next set of questions. This man is a sex offender who I would hope is not supposed to tell a child anything, especially by reaching out and touching them first, right? The child is a witness to this crime, does his voice not count? This is not making me feel any better Jess. Stories like this makes me feel even more strongly SO's need to stay in jail for life.
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Wyks
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« Reply #490 on: June 16, 2010, 07:33:02 PM »


if you click on the first link and go to pages 5 & 6, there are some family photos...all of Kyron with Dad, Stepmom,Little sister and sometimes big brother.   

If we are going to judge Stepmom for not being in enough pics with Kyron...then is anyone going to ask where the pictures are of him with his Birth mother?? Because I haven't seen 1 single picture of them together.

Not trying to sound critical of anyone...but we have all been judging SM for this and that...what about his Birth mother?  Why wasn't she at the science fair, or the talent show, where are the loving pictures of her with Kyron?  I read an article saying Dad and SM drove him to her house for visits...why couldn't she come to him?  I'm not suggesting she is responsible for his disappearance...I'm just pointing out that she does not appear to be very involved with Kyron, even less than his stepmother.

Thanks for those links, pamomma, will check them out. 

You have good questions regarding the biomom.  I don't know the answers to those either, wish we did. 

I don't have a fixation on any one person over another, and don't think many others in here do either.  Some of us haven't had a chance to post each and every theory yet.  (Example, I have many questions about the principal.  Just haven't gone there yet).  Some we may still be gathering info on, waiting for further info about, etc.  If and when there's an angle you want discussed, that hasn't been discussed yet, then just toss it into the mix, ask away.  Am thinking that we're very early on into this case, 1st thread, page 24 last I looked.  Am fairly certain that by the 24th thread, page 24, someone somewhere will have mentioned every single possible person and viewpoint in this case that there is to discuss.  And even then, someone will likely come along and say, 'Heyyyyy what about ..... ??' And many of us will go yeah, what about that!!  LOL  Know what I mean?  Smile 

Whenever anyone begins a sentence with... "Not trying to sound critical of anyone...but  ...... "  Then honestly, very often whatever follows is gonna be exactly that.  Even with good intentions.  Just saying...
 
Although 'some' of us have been questioning this and that in this case, we have not *all* been doing so.  Some have sat quietly by and just read.  Some have been offering updates/links/pics/prayers/support/answers as possible.  Some have offered their 'viewpoints' without questions.  Not *all* have been questioning or even IMO judging.  Asking questions about something or someone.. isn't necessarily the same as 'judging' whatever/whoever that is.  There's a difference.  IMO.
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« Reply #491 on: June 16, 2010, 08:30:38 PM »

Did Kyron’s step mother usually bring him to school everyday, or was it only June 4th that she drove him to school because of the science fair?

the reason I’m asking this is because I’m wondering if someone could have followed them and knew their habits of bringing Kyron to school everyday. I also think its important to note that the police are also looking for any surveillance videos from 6/3-6/4.

maybe this perpetrator was practicing, mapping out how long it would take for him to get out of the immediate area with Kyron.

also, what if its a family member or family friend who doesn’t live in the immediate area, but they are trying to figure out if they can place this person in the area in the day before Kyron disappeared.

or, maybe they want the surveillance from june 3rd to try to poke a hole in a poi’s alibi, proving that they were in the area when they are saying they aren’t..


Good points, Sunshine! 

From what I recall, Kyron typically rode the bus to and from school.

At first, I thought stepmom gave Kyron a ride to school on Friday (rather than him ride the bus there) because they brought his project to set up.  But it does seem that the projects were brought on an earlier day, then set up on the 3rd.  Seems the stepmom likely gave him a ride whichever day he actually brought the project to school too, or she brought the project another time in the day.  If she brought it on the 3rd, might be another reason they want video from both the 3rd and 4th.  To see if anyone was caught on video watching them or whatever, yeah. 

Ya know, I was also wondering where in the school the science projects were set up.  Could be the gym I suppose, but from the pic of Kyron, it looks like a classroom, not the gym.  The projects are on individual desks with a chair in front of each one.  Which suggest more than one classroom.  Since the students were in class the day before as well as that day after 10a, am guessing that the projects were set up during/after school on the 3rd.  ??  Is it possible they have several empty classrooms where they could have set all this up without needing that space for anything else? 

And if it's true that there are sev empty classrooms... how many were left totally empty even with the science fair and regular classes in full swing?  As in... one that Kyron could have passed by (on his way to/from the supposed electric project) and gotten pulled into, with no one seeing him? 

I think it will be great if someone has video from the 3rd and the 4th, so they can compare, or whatever it is they are doing.  Might be looking for someone bringing in a large container type thing on the 3rd, who then leaves with that, on the 4th. 

 
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« Reply #492 on: June 16, 2010, 09:42:23 PM »

I don't know why but I thought the science fair was in the library? I don't know forsure obviously
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« Reply #493 on: June 16, 2010, 10:33:47 PM »

Saw this on Kyron's site on facebook. Haven't seen the video yet but several people are commenting on it.


"I found this video interesting on Koin tv. They have a few others, this one mentions the "mystery white truck" that people have seen around the house the day on or after (??) Kyron went missing. Now it's being towed away to a shop? Also one of the Koin videos mentioned there was undercover agents at the vigil last night, and that of course they won... See More't say what they saw or discovered. not sure if this link will work or not:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=16810@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156
The video is 3rd down on the list PRAYER VIGIL FOR HOPE and is about 7:49 long. I just found it interesting myself"
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« Reply #494 on: June 16, 2010, 11:00:17 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Broadcast/kyron-horman-plea-missing-endangered-billboard-campaign/story?id=10936101
Kyron Horman Plea: 'Missing Endangered' Billboard Campaign
Police Looking for 'That One Tip That Will Bring Kyron Home'
June 16, 2010

A billboard showing information on missing child Kyron Horman is shown.
(Courtesy Multnomah Co. Sheriff's Office)

Investigators renewed their call for the public's help in their search for missing boy Kyron Horman, the 7-year-old who disappeared from his elementary school  on June 4.
Thirty large billboards with Kyron's smiling, bespectacled face, the words "Endangered Missing," and a phone number to call have started popping up throughout the region, written in English, Spanish and Russian.

The billboards were donated by Clear Channel "to help get the message out to bring Kyron home," according to the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.

"We're still waiting for that one tip. That one tip that will bring Kyron home," Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand said.

Lindstrand characterized the investigation as "moving forward" but declined to provide further details. Tips from the public continue to come in on "a consistent basis" she said, but didn't provide an exact number.
One tip arrived in the mail written on a postcard, Lindstrand said.

Police said dive teams continued searching bodies of water near where Kyron disappeared. Investigators including members of the sheriff's major crimes team and the FBI are canvassing a four mile radius around Kyron's school and re-interviewing parents, students and school employees.
Lindstrand said sheriff's officials are in regular contact with Kyron's parents, who have declined interviews.

"They said, 'We don't want our faces out there. We want Kyron's face out there,'" she said.

Police declared the case a criminal investigation Sunday and since Monday have refused to grant any interviews or provide regular updates.

Lindstrand held a brief press conference today outside a sheriff's building because she said investigators want to keep the public interested in the case.
Lindstrand also said the television show "America's Most Wanted" is currently preparing a story on Kyron's case.
Kyron disappeared on the morning of June 4, after he and his stepmother Terri Horman attended a school science fair where Kyron had displayed a project on red tree frogs. His stepmother said she last saw Kyron walking down a hallway toward his classroom.

When Kyron didn't come home on the bus that Friday afternoon, his parents called the school, which in turn called 911, launching what Gates said could be the largest search operation in Oregon history.

Approximately 1,300 searchers in the field were joined by 213 additional investigators from 42 different agencies from California, Oregon and Washington. A National Guard helicopter also joined in the search.
Many of the search teams have packed up and headed home, although a small number of local teams will be on call in case there are any new leads or developments.

Kyron's family has only appeared twice in public since he disappeared. On Friday, his stepfather made an emotional plea for his return.

"You mean everything to us," said his stepfather Tony Young. "And until you come home this family's not complete. Please Kyron, keep up the hope."

For many people here, the distinction between a missing persons case and a criminal one is irrelevant since Kyron is still nowhere to be found.

"It has not changed our focus," family friend Becky Owens said. "Our focus has been and will continue to be finding Kyron. So it doesn't change what we're doing, getting his face out to as many people as possible."
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« Reply #495 on: June 16, 2010, 11:02:43 PM »

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/tips_come_from_far_away_in_kyr.html
Tips come from far away in Kyron Horman search, but investigators still focus on Multnomah County
June 16, 2010

As the search for Kyron Horman approaches the two-week mark, investigators are working to spread more information about the missing 7-year-old.

The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office has released more photos of the second-grader, including what he would look like without his glasses.

"It's just another view of Kyron if someone sees him," said Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand.

Thirty billboards with Kyron's picture and information now dot the metro area -- 10 in English, 10 in Spanish and 10 in Russian. The boy disappeared June 4 from Skyline School after visiting the science fair with this stepmother.

Lindstrand said dive units from Clackamas and Multnomah counties continue to make routine checks of bodies of water in the area around Skyline in northwest Multnomah County. A Multnomah County dive unit also was seen in the waters near Sauvie Island on Wednesday afternoon.

In other developments:


T-shirts: Friends of Kyron's family continue to drop off a pile of "missing" T-shirts with the 7-year-old's picture each morning on a table in the lobby of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office headquarters in Northeast Portland.

The search: Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said investigators were still running into resistance from a few people who don't want searchers in their homes, but most people have complied and the number of unsearched homes is small. Investigators also have almost completed a second canvassing of the neighborhood, defined as an area in about a four-mile radius around Skyline School.

Investigation: Lindstrand said the entire East County Major Crimes Team is continuing to work on the case, with help from the FBI and the Portland Police Bureau.

Tips: Lindstrand said tips about Kyron continue to come in, and although alleged sightings have been phoned in from as far away as the Midwest, the investigation remains focused on Multnomah County.

She encouraged people to keep combing their memory for anything that might help investigators find Kyron. "There's a tip out there that's going to get us to where Kyron is," she said. The tip line is 503-261-2847.

Lindstrand said a white pickup truck towed from the Horman property isn't part of the investigation. The Horman family had tried to drive the truck to the grocery store, found that the starter was dead and called a tow truck, she said.

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« Reply #496 on: June 16, 2010, 11:04:49 PM »

http://www.kptv.com/news/23920524/detail.html
(Video of vigil)
Hundreds Gather At Kyron Horman Vigil
June 16, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- The parents of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman were among hundreds of people to attend a vigil for the boy Tuesday at a northwest Portland church.

Some of the people who attended were close friends of the Horman family, but others had no connection at all, such as Jessica Nelson, who drove from Vancouver to attend the vigil at Sunset Presbyterian Church.

"It's been a while, but we can't give up hope because if you give up hope, there's nothing left," Nelson said. "I can't imagine if it was one of my babies gone. I would just be torn apart."

John Dale, of Hillsboro, also does not know the family, but wanted to lend his support.

"I can't do anything, but just be here and be a part of a community that really cares," he said.

Kyron disappeared from Skyline School 12 days ago. Earlier this week, deputies said they were switching the focus of the second-grader's disappearance from a missing endangered child case to a criminal investigation.

Last week, deputies said Kyron's parents have cooperated with the investigation throughout. They, along with the crowd at the church, prayed at the vigil.

The night ended with hundreds of candles being lit in the sanctuary -- perhaps a signal that many refuse to let Kyron's disappearance become a cold case.

"No matter what you feel, you've just got to hope that he comes home one way or another," Nelson said.

Some of the organizers of the vigil are friends of Kyron's father, Kaine Horman. The family did not make any comment to the media at the event.

School Year Ends Without Kyron In Class

Summer vacation began Tuesday afternoon for Skyline School students, but classmates and teachers said it's hard to celebrate knowing Kyron remains missing.

Students piled cards and gifts on Kyron's desk and received a special surprise at a school assembly when Trail Blazers star Brandon Roy and coach Nate McMillan paid a special visit to the school.

While the children cheered, parents said it's still a difficult time for the Skyline community.

"I think the kids know today that the assembly is about him, but also to leave them on a positive note for the summer," said Gail Meyer, a Skyline School parent.

School district officials said counselors will be available throughout the summer for students and staff.

Billboards To Remind Drivers To Keep Eye Out

Clear Channel Outdoor donated materials and space Tuesday for 30 billboards dedicated to missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

Ten of the billboards are in English, 10 are in Spanish and 10 are in Russian.

The bilboards are located all over the Portland area. The majority are in east Portland.
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« Reply #497 on: June 16, 2010, 11:30:23 PM »

Jess what are your thoughts about an assult charge or stalking? The person in he car states they saw this man walking behind this boy, the boy states he reached out and tried to grab him. The child was not asking to be touched or reached out to and given the child ran makes it understood the child believed he was in danger. If this man is a SO with a history of assult on children, then wouldn't this act put him in violation?

Good questions TG. Unfortunately I don't know enough of the facts to answer them. Let me see though if I CSM shed some light on them. One if the elements of a criminal assault charge is an "unwanted touching."   If you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a touching, then you can't get a conviction. Here it sounds like the evidence is questionable at best.

A stalking charge typically requires proof of a pattern. Here there's no way a prosecutor could convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that this creep had a pattern of following this boy.

On the SO question that really depends on the conditions of his release. If he did his time and was released prior to any lifetime registration requirement then
chances are being around children doesn't make him s violator.

Not good news I know. That's why I'm convinced that the law has been too slow to respond. Thank God though that the Supreme Court upheld the civil commitment provisions of the Adam Walsh Act. They will go a long way toward helping to solve this legal dilemma.
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« Reply #498 on: June 16, 2010, 11:50:02 PM »

Just popping in for a second but found this.

http://www.kptv.com/news/23927964/detail.html


Sauvie Island Residents On Alert For Clues
Dive Team Searching Around Island

POSTED: 7:07 pm PDT June 16, 2010
UPDATED: 8:37 pm PDT June 16, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Residents on Sauvie Island said they are on alert for clues about Kyron Horman's disappearance.

Earlier this week, members of a Multnomah County dive team were spotted wading into waterways around the northwest Portland island. Deputies later confirmed the search was part of the investigation into the missing 7-year-old.

The divers returned again Wednesday, deputies said. There is no word on their findings or what brought them to Sauvie Island.

A sheriff's office horse trailer was also spotted in the area after the major search operation was called off Sunday.

Randy Laws, a fisherman, said locals have been checking their properties and along the riverfront to assist in the sheriff's investigation.

“I've seen some boats go by today and they were going pretty slow, so it looked like they were looking," Laws said.

Kyron's disappearance 13 days ago sparked one of the largest search efforts in Oregon's history. On Sunday, deputies called off hundreds of searchers as the case became a criminal investigation.

The second-grade student was last seen after a morning science fair at Skyline Elementary School.
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« Reply #499 on: June 16, 2010, 11:54:54 PM »


The search: Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said investigators were still running into resistance from a few people who don't want searchers in their homes, but most people have complied and the number of unsearched homes is small.

~~~

I snipped the above paragraph from a recent article upthread.  I appreciate how the majority of folks in that area are willing to comply in allowing their homes to be searched.  And I just cannot wrap my mind around the few who resist.  I mean.. who does that?  Knowing a child is missing, could just refuse such a thing?  How many of us, had this been happening in our own neighborhoods, wouldn't throw the doors open wide and let the search commence?  <shaking head>  Sure I wouldn't want LE to see the dirty dishes in the sink, the pile of dirty towels waiting to be loaded in the washer.. but c'mon.  That's not what they'd even be looking at/for.  I just don't understand some folks in this day and age.  sigh.

A young friend of my mid son went missing sev years ago, when they were 19/20 yrs. old  LE searched and searched, begged folks to search their property.  Figuring if each property owner would search outbuildings and sheds, etc, that would help LE immensely.  Well.. obviously not everyone wanted to be bothered with that, cuz the young friend was found many months later.. on someone's property.  Had they looked back when LE asked them to... Yeah.  I just cannot wrap my mind around this kind of attitude. 
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