Natalee Case Discussion #836 6/8/10 - 6/10/10

[carpe noctem]

A lot of different stories coming out in the news. A few of the things I am wondering at this point...how is it a girl is half dressed in such a small room with a virtual stranger? Was her money she had won found with her or not? Where was he for 30 min? It does not take very long to get bread and coffee. Did he walk or take her car? (etc)

I believe she was half dressed because he attempted to rape her.  He got mad when she resisted and killed her.  Everything I have read indicates Joran stole the money she won.  Good point, it would not take 30 minute to walk next door and get 2 cups of coffee and bread.  I'm sure he walked because it was right next door at a gas station convenience store.

so the time stamp indicates that it took him about 30 minutes to leave and get the coffee and come back? Is that right? If so, I was thinking about the amphetamine pills he popped while drinking the coffee in the room... could he also have stopped by "somewhere" and picked those up at that time too?

Klaas - Could he have used the breakfast trip as an excuse to get in her purse
and steal her bank cards - go make as many atm withdrawals as he could.
Get the coffee and bread.... back in 30 minutes.

Would she be dead before he left?

We she be dead after he came back. Surprise attack. Maybe she was even asleep
when he attacked?

[klaasend]

A lot of different stories coming out in the news. A few of the things I am wondering at this point...how is it a girl is half dressed in such a small room with a virtual stranger? Was her money she had won found with her or not? Where was he for 30 min? It does not take very long to get bread and coffee. Did he walk or take her car? (etc)

I believe she was half dressed because he attempted to rape her.  He got mad when she resisted and killed her.  Everything I have read indicates Joran stole the money she won.  Good point, it would not take 30 minute to walk next door and get 2 cups of coffee and bread.  I'm sure he walked because it was right next door at a gas station convenience store.

so the time stamp indicates that it took him about 30 minutes to leave and get the coffee and come back? Is that right? If so, I was thinking about the amphetamine pills he popped while drinking the coffee in the room... could he also have stopped by "somewhere" and picked those up at that time too?

Klaas - Could he have used the breakfast trip as an excuse to get in her purse
and steal her bank cards - go make as many atm withdrawals as he could.
Get the coffee and bread.... back in 30 minutes.

Would she be dead before he left?

We she be dead after he came back. Surprise attack. Maybe she was even asleep
when he attacked?

I read somewhere that on the video of him leaving to go get coffee he is wearing the same white shirt he was wearing in the casino.  If that is the case then he got coffee, came back and murdered her.  He could have very well stolen stuff out of her car when he went out to get coffee. 

[AZLady]

Spooky, you may be on to something.  Perhaps the roofies knocked her out and he left her sleeping at 8:10 to run her cards through the ATM while getting coffee.  Somehow, though, I don't see Joran sleeping or watching her sleep for three hours from 5 to 8.  This just bugs me.

[Tylergal]

AARGH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmLMw3LPhg

Old from June 3rd

Poetic justice would be Joran throwing wine in the face of Tacopino instead of Peter dV.

[AZLady]

Klaas, that fits the timeline for the 30 minute coffee run.  Going through her car for anything valuable could have easily taken the extra time.  But what happened from 5 to 8?  That bugs me.

[carpe noctem]

She could have just been crashed out on the bed... and when he had all that he needed (cash & food - he was hungry)... he surprise attacked her.

This could explain why her clothes were already off.

It could also explain why the mattress was askew.

[Tylergal]

As you know, the judge ruled that the Kalpoes had to come to California to give their depositions.  The Kalpoes were given until 6/1/2010 to do this.  They filed a request for an extension the end of May and I've been waiting for those documents and the decision to be filed.  The docs (request/22pgs and response/32 pages) have been file and a 4 page decision was filed.  Here are 2 of the important pages of that decision.  Not sure what happens next:

Where are those cheering monkeys when you need them?  Hooray!!!

I guess that means that Joran won't get the $1,000,000 from K2 for promise to keep their secrets secret (er uh, keep their lies secret).

[billb's daughter]

What are the 5 stages of grief/trauma?
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Acceptance, moving on... or something like that.

Joran is in denial now. He's covering his mistakes and back peddling.
Next he will be angry that he was caught, and more banging his head against the wall.
Then he will bargain, possibly giving up the Natalie location (wondering if a house was built upon the location).
Before he dies in prison he will accept his fate and will move on to hell.

Maybe concrete around a pool....

[klaasend]

Klaas, that fits the timeline for the 30 minute coffee run.  Going through her car for anything valuable could have easily taken the extra time.  But what happened from 5 to 8?  That bugs me.

MAYBE - they went to his room, smoked some pot, did some cocaine and she fell asleep.  Maybe both of them fell asleep.  Joran says he's going to go get coffee and bread.  Maybe he tells her he'll fill up her car with gas.  He got the food at the gas station convenience store right next to the hotel. 

I don't know. 

[AZLady]

She could have just been crashed out on the bed... and when he had all that he needed (cash & food - he was hungry)... he surprise attacked her.

This could explain why her clothes were already off.

It could also explain why the mattress was askew.

True.  I do think she must have been crashed out from the roofies.  I think he started to undress her.  From my recall, Joran had a penchant for porn.  Was he watching porn on his computer while she was passed out from 5 - 8?  That makes sense.  When he finished, he was hungry and wanted coffee.  He took the opportunity to take her money and go through her car.  Unfortunately, she came to while he was gone and discovered her money missing and her pants off.  Anger followed and he killed her.  That's plausible.  I'm sorry, but I've been worrying over this like a dog with a bone.  I don't believe his story of her using his computer and him becoming enraged.  That's just hokey.

[klaasend]

REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ BACK

KALPOES - DENIED!   They are basically in contempt of court now for not giving their depositions in California as ordered by the judge.

PRESS CONFERENCE - in Peru at 9am Peru Time which right now is the same as central time.

9am PERU =
7am CALIF =
10am NY


GOODNIGHT ALL!  WHAT A WEEK!

[Tylergal]

Urine will now go into smear mode. He will tell stories about Stephany that anyone who knows her will know it's not true. He will say anything that will make her look like a druggie or slut, anything to remove blame from himself. He wants to see that his words carry some weight. Unfortunately, his own words are already being repeated as truth by news. Haven't they learned by now he's a fricking liar? Trust what her family and friends say, not the killer who took her life.

You know all that blustering about Joran and condemning Natalee is what turned me against Julia Renfro and Aruba, not even to mention Joran.  Condemnation of a dead person, regardless of who they are says more about the person voicing the disparaging remarks than it does about the other person.  It speaks to his lack of character and the lack of character instilled in him by his parents.  They may be well educated from a bag of books, but they lack character which is born in and/or instilled in childhood and carried throughout a lifetime.

[Port Valerie]

She could have just been crashed out on the bed... and when he had all that he needed (cash & food - he was hungry)... he surprise attacked her.

This could explain why her clothes were already off.

It could also explain why the mattress was askew.

True.  I do think she must have been crashed out from the roofies.  I think he started to undress her.  From my recall, Joran had a penchant for porn.  Was he watching porn on his computer while she was passed out from 5 - 8?  That makes sense.  When he finished, he was hungry and wanted coffee.  He took the opportunity to take her money and go through her car.  Unfortunately, she came to while he was gone and discovered her money missing and her pants off.  Anger followed and he killed her.  That's plausible.  I'm sorry, but I've been worrying over this like a dog with a bone.  I don't believe his story of her using his computer and him becoming enraged.  That's just hokey.

That's a good possibility. I don't think he killed her while she was asleep. He acts in rage. There must have been a confrontation over something. Your ideas make sense.

[Port Valerie]

Nite, Klaas. What a week. You said it.

[Tylergal]

What was Joran's college major?

He CLAIMS Business???? Has anybody seen a school he finished? ( less hs )

He put it on a dating service profile - is where I picked that up.

smoochies dot com errrr uh  something, I forget.

Today, the news out of Aruba was that he had studied engineering while in the NL.  I think they meant deconstruction.

[AZLady]

Urine will now go into smear mode. He will tell stories about Stephany that anyone who knows her will know it's not true. He will say anything that will make her look like a druggie or slut, anything to remove blame from himself. He wants to see that his words carry some weight. Unfortunately, his own words are already being repeated as truth by news. Haven't they learned by now he's a fricking liar? Trust what her family and friends say, not the killer who took her life.

You know all that blustering about Joran and condemning Natalee is what turned me against Julia Renfro and Aruba, not even to mention Joran.  Condemnation of a dead person, regardless of who they are says more about the person voicing the disparaging remarks than it does about the other person.  It speaks to his lack of character and the lack of character instilled in him by his parents.  They may be well educated from a bag of books, but they lack character which is born in and/or instilled in childhood and carried throughout a lifetime.

Absolutely.  Character is passed from generation to generation with lessons in childhood about honesty, and hard work, and loyalty, and caring.  It isn't learned from a book.

[AZLady]

REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ BACK

KALPOES - DENIED!   They are basically in contempt of court now for not giving their depositions in California as ordered by the judge.

PRESS CONFERENCE - in Peru at 9am Peru Time which right now is the same as central time.

9am PERU =
7am CALIF =
10am NY


GOODNIGHT ALL!  WHAT A WEEK!

Night, Klaas.  Thanks for all you do.

[carpe noctem]

Terror Jaap said he was hungry and confused.

I believe the eating of the biscuits and the coffee... was because he was starving.

It looks cold. ... and of course it IS.

...but I am just thinking about possibilities of why he did what he did.

He was desperate. ... and it is still NO EXCUSE to murder.

[darleenofalabama]

Hello!

The nypost.com has a story about how he ate cake and drank a latte, or something, while he sat next to her dead body, contemplating what to do with it.  That just shows what an unfeeling murderer he is; must come with lots of practice.  One of the comments after the story states that the commenter thinks this was pre-meditated because he had tidal maps with him.  He probably carried tidal maps with him all the time, in case he felt like murdering somebody.  His daddy probably taught him stuff like that.

[AZLady]

Well, the devil is in the details, and it's the details that bother me.  I do believe the Peruvian police know what went on.  Maybe we will learn it eventually.  His computer is a gold mine.  Analysis of the hard drive will show his activities before that day, the day of the killing, and afterward.  I'd love to see that analysis.