Natalee Case Discussion #837 6/10/10 - 6/12/10

[Anna]

If Joran really wants to tell where Natalee's remains are, he can write it all down and PLE can fax it to JQK.  No need for Joran to be in contact with Aruba at all.  Maybe he wants to tip them off as they did for him.

[Brandi]

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292856

check out the picture of the monster

'It looks that his body start having cravings for drugs

Joran van der Sloot/John Albert Gardner III

Same empty evil eyed stare

Wow!

[Kermit]

I have said from the beginning she was loaning him money at the table and she went to his room to get her money. He drugged her, but they did not knock her out and she fought back. He killed her for the money and I would bet the farm on it..................

I am not yet convinced he killed Natalie - I have always thought his father may have been the one to kill her. I think JVC drugged her took her back to their "compound" for his father and something happened there. I don't know if him and the other freaks were video recording it or all going to turns, but I do believe there is recording of it SOMEWHERE. He may have kept it to keep his father giving him money and protecting him.

Maybe it was Paulus who offered the lethal squirt the $10,000 to get him a blonde while Anita was in Holland.

I just have had a "feeling" since this first started that his father was the original pervert in that family. I do think JVC is now a serial killer and I am not sure he did not learn that at his father's knee. He did go to Thailand as a teen with his father time after time. There are a lot of young women (who can be bought) there and a lot of snuff films are done there to be sold at big prices.

I think we are making way too much of his lawyer and what HE wants - JVS will never see the light of day again. He will not be alive this time next year because once he is in a Peruvian prison he cannot be protected by Aruba or anyone else. I am betting there are prisoners now already fighting to get the first chance at him. It is NOTHING like we know prisons here in the US and the guards can be bought for almost nothing to look away. We will hear a story of him dying of some disease within months of his departure to the prison.

I have to say something. I can't help it - it's the way I'm wired and my genetics. .

I agree with everything you said here, but maybe for minor different reasons. I look at things through "what God would want" and so I follow my heart and what he asks of me. I know it all sounds so clique'd, but it's real, and I'm not the most religious person, but follow where He leads.. Make sense? I know it won't for most, but there are folks here that understand.

Joran's has not followed any of God's plans for him - he lives in misery. This is no life. His life ended many other lives. God's plan for the universe is to create life and not to take life. It's really rather simple. And He tells us in his own ways. So, stop to smell the flowers, tell someone that means so much to you that you love them, that when they are down that tomorrow is another day. That's part of God's plan. 

Somewhere along the line spite was all his family had for God. I have no idea where it happened, but it happened. Anita turned her back on Catholicism and no I am not a Catholic.

Joran can not live a life that would ever bring him any happiness, and it's sad. He gambles. drinks, drugs, and takes advantage of people, he soon started murdering people... It's easy to say that karma caught up and I say that often myself, but it's more than that. Joran has never had a moment of shear happiness, for that I feel for him but all of that is his own doing - not God's, not mine and not yours'.

God works in his own time and his own way. He gave Joran the time he needed to make it right and when he and Paulus didn't He smited Paulus. Soon he will smite JORAN. This is how God allows the universe to unfold. His plan was to start the universe in motion and allow it to always travel with-in it's intended design. Those that violate that plan are not long for this earth or any world He has created. It's a universal thing.

Joran is not long for this world simply because he is unable to follow the laws of the universe - those laid down by the Creator - God.

God will use you and I to make his point, and Joran is now learning that lesson. Too bad it happened so late and with no guidance from his parents.

Mr Flores understands God plan and articulated it quite well.

Good nite all.

That is beautifully written Rob.

We must remember that Saul was a murderer and G_d intervened and changed him -  Paul.

My hope is Joran will surrender to G_d's plan for his life. And that Natalee comes home and that those who helped cover-up will be held accountable.

[AZSunny]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37618530/from/ET

Police: Dutchman to reveal Holloway location

I forgot to thank you seemeatthebeach.  That breaking news had only happened within the hour.

I knew that something had to break considering the deadline that loomed ... the deadline that implied the Peruvian prosecutor had to charge Joran or set him free.

Janet

But don't they still have to charge him to keep him under lock and key? And especially knowing what a liar he is. What's the time in Peru right know I wonder?

I do believe there has been negotiations/plea deals going on behind the scenes ... negotiations/plea deals that would extend that deadline.

In My Opinion

Janet

Janet, from the article you posted it gives the timelines:

It's not clear what Van der Sloot will be charged with, NBC News reported. There are several options under Peruvian law:

Premeditated aggravated murder — up to a 35-year sentence
Simple murder — up to 20 years
Murder “as result of violent emotion" — from 3 to 5 years in prison
"Injury that leads to death" — 1 to 3 years in prison
Confessions help reduce a sentence, but likely not much for a case like this, according to Peruvian legal sources.

Prosecutors will first file a formal charge to a judge — expected on Friday — who then has 15 days to accept the charges, or dismiss them. If accepted, a months-long investigation phase begins before formal charges are reviewed and prosecutors file an official "accusation" — a charge with a request for a penalty.

Van der Sloot would then face a trial in which a panel of three judges – not a jury — decides his fate.

[cecilita]

If Joran had any real sense he would do the right thing - finally - and give up Natalee's whereabouts.(without dictating how, and who)

We know how compassionate and how badly Mr. Flores would like to have Natalee found and possibly he would show some mercy to Joran.  If Joran di**s him around well...we know how influential Mr. Flores is, not just as Stefany's Dad but in general.

If he goes to Aruba, one of the police implicated in cover up the killing, will kill the monster before he opens his mouth.

Hi Cecilita. 
Peruvian LE will not give him over to Aruba until after his court case in Peru.  They'd never get him back.
 
 

Hay Can,
They had their time, now is peruvian time. The prisoners will kill him anyway, but before he dies he must say where is Natalee..

[Tamikosmom]

My heart tells me that the absolute truth will never be known ...  Aruban/Dutch justice will never be forthcoming but ... if Natalee Holloway were to be set free from her Aruban prison ... our God will prevail.

Good Night All.

Janet
7:10 PM PT

++++++


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S MOTHER:

We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee. Natalee deserves to return to her country. She deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person. Every single person knows that. They know it.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S STEPFATHER:

Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she’s alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we’ll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824

[TURBOTHINK]

It is all about the strategy. To Joran, life is just one big game of Poker. (also Chess)

And he has now cashed in all his chips...............too bad it wasn't before the murders.

[seemeatthebeach]

Joran van der Sloot to reveal location of Natalee Holloway's body, police indicate


Last Updated: 9:59 PM, June 10, 2010

Joran van der Sloot knows the location of the remains of missing teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba and is willing to lead authorities there, Peruvian police indicated Thursday.

The Dutchman is being held in Lima over the alleged murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores, whose battered body was found in a hotel room in early June.

He has allegedly confessed to the killing.

Van der Sloot, 22, also remains the lone suspect in Holloway’s disappearance more than five years ago -- her body has never been found.

Police sources have told NBC News that van der Sloot is now willing to tell authorities in Aruba where to find the Alabama teenager’s remains.

"In relation to the presume homicide of the American citizen Natalee Holloway which occurred on 30 May 2005 en Aruba," a rough translation from a Peruvian police press release says, according to Fox News Channel.

"Motion against van der Sloot has manifested in the finding of her body, and the information is provided to authorities in Aruba."

It has also emerged that van der Sloot may have been lying when he told police that he killed Flores in anger after she used his laptop and found details of his connection to the Holloway case.

An unconfirmed report from a police source said further interrogation had revealed that van der Sloot had actually planned to rob Flores, according to Fox presenter Greta Van Susteren's blog Greta Wire.

It is thought Peruvian police will charge van der Sloot with "homicidio agravado" -- premeditated aggravated homicide. This would bring the highest possible sentence of 35 years.

Flores and van der Sloot met in Lima and gambled together in the Atlantic City Casino, which is owned by a friend of Flores' influential politician father, Ricardo Flores Sr.

After chatting and drinking with him, Flores drove van der Sloot in her Jeep to the Miraflores Hotel Tac, where they went to his room at about 5:20am local time May 30.

Flores' body was found days later by hotel workers and van der Sloot was arrested in Chile a day later. He was then extradited to Peru.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/joran_indicate_der_sloot_body_reveal_eiiJtIjZopUC7sd2AEk0QN

[carpe noctem]

If Joran really wants to tell where Natalee's remains are, he can write it all down and PLE can fax it to JQK.  No need for Joran to be in contact with Aruba at all.  Maybe he wants to tip them off as they did for him.

Yep - I don`t think Peru wants to get punk`d by Aruba.

Suggestion - Do not let Joran call the shots. Let him think he is.

[nonesuche]

speaking of boats, where is Koen now?

Georgia and he seems to be turning out OK.  He's engaged and looking like he's matured into an ok guy.

but what does he know about Natalee? He needs to man up and tell whatever he knows but likely will not.

[BUCKSHOT]

They may charge him overnight to avoid the circus...

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, from the article you posted it gives the timelines:

It's not clear what Van der Sloot will be charged with, NBC News reported. There are several options under Peruvian law:

Premeditated aggravated murder — up to a 35-year sentence
Simple murder — up to 20 years
Murder “as result of violent emotion" — from 3 to 5 years in prison
"Injury that leads to death" — 1 to 3 years in prison
Confessions help reduce a sentence, but likely not much for a case like this, according to Peruvian legal sources.

Prosecutors will first file a formal charge to a judge — expected on Friday — who then has 15 days to accept the charges, or dismiss them. If accepted, a months-long investigation phase begins before formal charges are reviewed and prosecutors file an official "accusation" — a charge with a request for a penalty.

Van der Sloot would then face a trial in which a panel of three judges – not a jury — decides his fate.

You could be right AZSunny.

Right now I am grasping at straws regarding Joran's apparent willingness to reveal where Natalee's remains are located.  I cannot see what is in it for him if he does not come through.

Sweet Dreams

Janet

[klaasend]

speaking of boats, where is Koen now?

Georgia and he seems to be turning out OK.  He's engaged and looking like he's matured into an ok guy.

but what does he know about Natalee? He needs to man up and tell whatever he knows but likely will not.

I have no idea.  I just know by comparison to the other players in the case, he seems to currently have his life together.

[nimrod]

Peru is on Eastern Standard Time. Our EST zone is on Daylight Saving Time for the summer. Yes, Peru is one hour behind our Eastern time right now.

Thanks...I forgot about that

As far as Joran telling "only" Aruban authorities, Natalee's location...whatever, they already know. Joran is about control and this is the way he "thinks" he's going to get it. I would say tell me now or we're all done talking....march him down to the prison and if he's got nothing to say, toss him in...see you in court..maybe

my opinion only..

I'm not sure Aruba authorities want to hear where Natalee is. They already know where she is and would like very much to keep it their little secret.

[can]

The two put Holloway in the boat, van der Sloot said, and he went home. The friend told him the next day that he had carried the body out and dumped it into the ocean.

"I don't lose a minute of sleep over it," van der Sloot said.

Hey Joran - this is what I call remarkable progress. Murdering innocents can actually
eat in to your * sleeping time *

Were you not aware of this?

I'll never get over that.  he didn't lose a minute of sleep over it, can't get more callous than that.  thought he was playing with the big boys...well
Eems got nothing on what he will face in his future.  Try playing with them Joran.

the only reason he is losing sleep now, if that is so, is because he is scared for himself.  His games aren't working so well now.  Losing control is not something Joran is used to ...it sets him off!!!    I am so disgusted and infuriated with this beast, there are no words.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany. 

[seemeatthebeach]

They may charge him overnight to avoid the circus...

That's my belief.....this morning IMO was a bait and switch to avoid at least some of the media circus.
Until I see otherwise, IMO Peru knows exactly what they are doing.

Peru may make the deal to not add the aggravating charge of robbery if he tells the TRUTH about where Natalee is....if it's true and Stephany's father met with the monster, he may have told him exactly that.
Man up or you gonna lose your manhood in short order.......and that's a promise!!

[Lady Devon]

Perhaps I missed something by not going back 10-12 pages and I apologize if this had been explained, but how does Joran get the right to make any demands? If he was offered a deal, then I say, take it or leave it. Simple enough in my book. He should not specify any of the conditions. He has proven time and again that he will take advantage, then lie. If the maximum he was facing was 30-35 years, then to reduce it to only 6 or 7 years is huge! He will only be 30 yo if and when he is released.. Plenty of time to take on the USA for extortion charges, serve his time and then continue on his merry way, being Joran and he will still be in his 30's. He can rape and/or murder lots of young women before his life is over.

Questions:

1. If Joran does tell the truth and Natalee's remains are returned to her family, would that make the extortion charges moot? He did provide the information which he was paid to give although it is a little late in coming. (I am not saying he should be excused from extortion charges, merely asking a question.)

2.My understanding is that charges have to be made against Joran by Friday or he goes free. There is no way her remains can be identified during the time frame now available. What if Joran is formally charged with 6-7 years based on their agreement, then later it is determined that the remains are not those of Natalee? Can the length of detainment be changed or will the 6 to 7 years be it? Can he be re-tried with additional charges brought?

[klaasend]

I agree they will charge him with aggravated homicide tonight.  Then, if the information he is giving to Aruban authorities actually leads to the recovery of Natalee's remains, he may get a slightly reduced sentence.

[Anna]

The article above posted by seemeatthebeach says PLE has told Aruba where Natalee's remains are located.

So, OK, Aruba, where is she?  Joran told you.  You didn't hide her AGAIN, did you?

Compare and contrast the anger and outrage of the Peruvians to Aruba laughing at Joran's victim there.  Of course, Natalee was American and not one of their own but the startling contrast is showing Aruba in all its "radiant glory" as the corrupt and just plain evil place that it is.

Can you imagine the people of Peru protesting against a victim's family the was the evil ones did in Aruba?  If Aruba had not taught Joran that he could do no wrong, not even when he killed somebody, two young women would be alive and getting on with their lives today.

Now Aruba is whining that the media in the U.S. is bashing them again.  I should hope it is.  What do they expect after they refused to even collect evidence against Joran?

He is probably just lying again anyway but let's see Aruba get right on this and give them 24 hours to produce the remains before the whole world starts bashing them.


.

[klaasend]

Perhaps I missed something by not going back 10-12 pages and I apologize if this had been explained, but how does Joran get the right to make any demands? If he was offered a deal, then I say, take it or leave it. Simple enough in my book. He should not specify any of the conditions. He has proven time and again that he will take advantage, then lie. If the maximum he was facing was 30-35 years, then to reduce it to only 6 or 7 years is huge! He will only be 30 yo if and when he is released.. Plenty of time to take on the USA for extortion charges, serve his time and then continue on his merry way, being Joran and he will still be in his 30's. He can rape and/or murder lots of young women before his life is over.

Questions:

1. If Joran does tell the truth and Natalee's remains are returned to her family, would that make the extortion charges moot? He did provide the information which he was paid to give although it is a little late in coming. (I am not saying he should be excused from extortion charges, merely asking a question.)

2.My understanding is that charges have to be made against Joran by Friday or he goes free. There is no way her remains can be identified during the time frame now available. What if Joran is formally charged with 6-7 years based on their agreement, then later it is determined that the remains are not those of Natalee? Can the length of detainment be changed or will the 6 to 7 years be it? Can he be re-tried with additional charges brought?

You really think they are stupid enough to reduce his sentence based upon what he says without proof?