Natalee Case Discussion #838 6/12/10 -6/14/10

[SteveDinMD]

I think Joran possibly took off Stefany's jeans in order to perform another indignity to this poor girl.  In order to do this, he had to remove her shoes first.  jmo

I'm not so sure...he could have been trying to "set up" for the hotel worker to see what the "bandits" did while he went to "get coffee"..

Joran is a pig....

that's also possible.

I believe this is what happened.  I think he was trying to say it was 'an attempted rape" while he was gone.  What a complete azzhole he is.

I don't believe that was his intention.  With the constant video surveillance, it would soon enough be obvious that he alone was responsible:  two walked in the room, and only one walked out.  Rather, I believe he was attempting to fabricate some indication on the surveillance tape that Stephany was still alive at that time.  Such indication could be valuable.  On the one hand, it could delay any investigation on the part of hotel management, affording Joran the maximum possible time to make good his escape.  On the other hand, if the surveillance system were to fail at some point afterward, or if a later tape were to be overwritten or otherwise lost, etc., Joran would then be in a position to claim that others miht have had access to the room in his absence, and that the earlier surveillance tape substantiates his claim that he left Stephany alive and well.  The claim would be feeble, in any case -- unless the hotel somehow burned down -- but it would give him at least the rudiments of a defense case, and that case would have been good enough in Aruba. 

Then why would he remove her shoes and pants?  I do understand what you are saying about the surveillance tape.  I think we all agree with that.

I believe the original motive was rape -- via Rohypnol -- and that Stephany was insufficiently drugged, and resisted unexpectedly.  I believe a struggle then ensued, with Joran attempting to prevent Stephany from summoning the authorities, a struggle in which Stephany died.  At that point, with the girl dead by violence, it would have been counterproductive for Joran to attempt to modify the crime scene  in any way that might further implicate himself.  His best course of action would have been to leave the room and reconnoiter the situation prior to planning his next move.  In fact, this is exactly what he did with his "coffee run." 

[klaasend]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

[darleenofalabama]

Dr. Russell is absolutely right; they need to let him know they, not him, are in charge from the beginning.

[Lifesong]

[Steph Watts]

It has been a relatively quiet weekend on the Island of Aruba. The focus of this story is still on Peru, but that will quickly change this week.  Dave Holloway is on his way to the Island.  He will be here later today.  I know that authorities in Peru are working very hard to get the information they need from Van Der Sloot about where Natalee’s body is.  There are alot of things I can’t discuss now.  I feel like the kid they sat down in front of a giant birthday cake — the adults tell him not to touch the cake — then leave to room.

Tonight live from Aruba at 8:00 p.m. EST with Dave Holloway’s attorney Vinda de Sousa and Former Head of the Houston FBI, Don Clark, with the very latest on the investigation — stick with the source on the ground….ME.

To listen to my show, Blogtalkradio.com/Watts-Up-With-This, click here.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

<<snipped>>

NANCY GRACE
Peru Files Murder One Charges on Van Der Sloot
Aired June 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/11/ng.01.html

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After reports circulate that Natalee`s skull discovered, as details of Van Der Sloot`s blackmail plot emerge and Aruban authorities head to Peru, has Van Der Sloot admitted his own father, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, helped hide Natalee`s body? And is he set from behind the walls of a Peruvian jailhouse to confess to the murder of Natalee Holloway?


Hmm....I think something's up.

Thanks Lifesong!

I saw Geraldo and heard the description of Dave today.  I'd already been thinking hmmmm over Mike Eman cancelling that trip to Curacao too.   

Could be that something's up.

I'm praying...

I heard that on NG about the skull...I thought she was referring to that older couple that took pictures while on vacation in Aruba in March and later thought the pictures looked like a skeleton.  I don't recall that NG said any more about it during that program (but may have missed something).  Did anyone else hear more from NG other than that "one" reference?

NANCY GRACE
Peru Files Murder One Charges on Van Der Sloot
Aired June 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/11/ng.01.html

GRACE: You`re right, Jean. We`re showing that right now. So the friends were not there at that time. She must have been waving at someone to get a soda or a drink.

I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins.

Dr. Marty, again, thank you for being with us. Reports were rampant like wild fire after all of this by Joran Van Der Sloot that Natalee`s skull have been discovered. At this juncture five years later, would it be intact?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Most likely the skull would be intact. And that would be sort of a treasure trove of DNA evidence and evidence that there may have been a hard impact, a trauma, and potentially even a drowning. So that could contribute to the mechanism of death in this case.

[Puzzler]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

So, Beth is in Peru (and not Aruba). 

Greta is in Peru also...wonder if Beth will do a segment with Greta?

[SteveDinMD]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

[darleenofalabama]

That's a long time, Klaasand; I guess it's been about the same length of time since I've heard from him; I always felt sad, and a little worried, because the last thing he wrote to me was that he was going away because it was time. 

[carpe noctem]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

She might even want to get a little face time with Joran.

Mr. Flores did.

[Tylergal]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

Or all the above.

[Puzzler]

[Steph Watts]

It has been a relatively quiet weekend on the Island of Aruba. The focus of this story is still on Peru, but that will quickly change this week.  Dave Holloway is on his way to the Island.  He will be here later today.  I know that authorities in Peru are working very hard to get the information they need from Van Der Sloot about where Natalee’s body is.  There are alot of things I can’t discuss now.  I feel like the kid they sat down in front of a giant birthday cake — the adults tell him not to touch the cake — then leave to room.

Tonight live from Aruba at 8:00 p.m. EST with Dave Holloway’s attorney Vinda de Sousa and Former Head of the Houston FBI, Don Clark, with the very latest on the investigation — stick with the source on the ground….ME.

To listen to my show, Blogtalkradio.com/Watts-Up-With-This, click here.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

<<snipped>>

NANCY GRACE
Peru Files Murder One Charges on Van Der Sloot
Aired June 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/11/ng.01.html

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After reports circulate that Natalee`s skull discovered, as details of Van Der Sloot`s blackmail plot emerge and Aruban authorities head to Peru, has Van Der Sloot admitted his own father, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, helped hide Natalee`s body? And is he set from behind the walls of a Peruvian jailhouse to confess to the murder of Natalee Holloway?


Hmm....I think something's up.

Thanks Lifesong!

I saw Geraldo and heard the description of Dave today.  I'd already been thinking hmmmm over Mike Eman cancelling that trip to Curacao too.   

Could be that something's up.

I'm praying...

I heard that on NG about the skull...I thought she was referring to that older couple that took pictures while on vacation in Aruba in March and later thought the pictures looked like a skeleton.  I don't recall that NG said any more about it during that program (but may have missed something).  Did anyone else hear more from NG other than that "one" reference?

NANCY GRACE
Peru Files Murder One Charges on Van Der Sloot
Aired June 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/11/ng.01.html

GRACE: You`re right, Jean. We`re showing that right now. So the friends were not there at that time. She must have been waving at someone to get a soda or a drink.

I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins.

Dr. Marty, again, thank you for being with us. Reports were rampant like wild fire after all of this by Joran Van Der Sloot that Natalee`s skull have been discovered. At this juncture five years later, would it be intact?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Most likely the skull would be intact. And that would be sort of a treasure trove of DNA evidence and evidence that there may have been a hard impact, a trauma, and potentially even a drowning. So that could contribute to the mechanism of death in this case.

Lifesong...thank you! 

[klaasend]

That's a long time, Klaasand; I guess it's been about the same length of time since I've heard from him; I always felt sad, and a little worried, because the last thing he wrote to me was that he was going away because it was time. 

Yep, that's the same type email I got

[TURBOTHINK]

Reading his confession one thing I noticed:  

He seemed to be thinking he had everyting all figured out as how to be switched out to Aruba or Holland muy pronto; -and when quizzed about where his money sources originated, he grows testy and wants to get off the subject.  His describing the murder doesn't seem to bother him as much, IMO.  You can almost hear his wheels moving in his head,  He casual depravity is scary.

I do not think in his wildest dreams that he would have to stay in Peru. He thought Aruba would immediately get him moved back there first because of Natalie. He left Thailand under great suspicion (from my friend who has a home there) and may have even been trying to escape the police there. That is why he almost gave away his business according to her - just to get out in a hurry.

He honestly thought he could "run the show" by demanding that they send him to Aruba to tell where Natalie was buried, and I do think they let him somewhat run with that to get his co-operation in the confession. I would bet any amount of money he fired his attorney there because he was transferred to prison and the attorney told him the truth of his situation now.

[klaasend]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

[Anna]

If something of Natalee has been found in Aruba, why would Beth be in Peru?

Do we have a second source for this or just the one?

.

[Dihannah1]

Lord have mercy,  I have been trying to get caught up for a week now, so I can join the discussions, without repeating what has already been said.  But you all are just to fast, as usual!  You go Monkeys!  Forget the MSM, what a joke,  read SM for the latest and breaking news!  I've learned more here, than I could possibly, anywhere else.  I can't even do my own searching before somebody here already has found something new.

However, I just wanted to say hi to my longtime friends of 5 yrs for waiting on justice for Natalee and so glad that many have returned, only under such sad circumstanses.   I did see Geraldo's show tonight where Craig said how bad Dave is doing, like living the nightmare all over again.   I'm curious what Beth will do when she get's to Peru. I'm sure if she gets a chance, first thing is spit in Jorans face, but also provide support for the Flores family, as she is so gracious and nothing but class.

Please don't throw nanners at me, even though Greta has gotten off these types of cases and is back in her element (Politics),  I know she said she is "inclined to believe Joran", but it sounds from his past and previous experiene and of course his psyhcopathic tendencies,  (like Scott Peterson and Lacy's parents for a short time) he even had her fooled.  I think she is po'd now for being made of fool of, so I'm willing to give her another chance.  Her trip to Peru, along with Beth's will show the truth.  I personally know a psychopath, though he has never murdered (yet), but can be very sweet and charming one minute, but I put nothing past him now, after knowing him for so many years, I really think dipsh@t really had her fooled..  That is what pshypaths do and tend to get away with there crap so long.   Yes, we knew the truth, but how much was Greta able to dig as deep as us, while doing other stories as well. This is JMO of course and it will be interesting this week while her and Beth are in Peru.   So we'll see.   I am just happier than h3ll that he is finally paying and the house of cards are finally going to fall!

I agree with Tyler, so good to have Carpe's humor back and good to see Rob as well, along with so many other monkeys, who have been gone for awhile.  We all stand for one thing that brings us all together,  Justice for Natalee, no matter how long it takes!

I believe we will finally see justice, maybe not tomorrow, but soon!  I pray they ALL go down!

God Bless you all!  I've missed you all so very much.   And thanks to Klaas and the mods, for doing everything possible for keeping SM going while many of us couldn't get in, due to server overload.  I say SM have the best mods. in the world! And Red for providing a forum to discuss.  Thank you all so very much!

Justices for Natalee and Stepanie!   

Now going to attempt to keep caught up.  But glad for all the information, if I can't.

[Anna]

I wish Rob would get in touch with TJ and try to find out what, if anything, is really going on and who is where and why.

.

[Port Valerie]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

Maybe a third reason in addition: to give files, records, data about Joran to the Peruvian prosecutor in case he can use any of it in the case against Joran. The Arubans are certainly not going to mail anything over, and if they did, the material would no doubt be doctored.

[TURBOTHINK]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

I would not want to see him, but I would want to "see" some io the prisoners in that jail and I would have a BIG POCKET full of $50.00 bills...................

[kimi1230]

There was one at RU that caused me to get banned....because I just couldn't/wouldn't keep my "mouth" shut when they posted. It was Wang Chung.

Yes, he is pretty bad and made a comeback recently. 

Oh geezzz.....don't tell me that!

[klaasend]

Hi Dihannah!  Good luck getting caught up!  If I'm gone for a few hours I give up, LOL