Natalee Case Discussion #838 6/12/10 -6/14/10

[Tamikosmom]

[Steph Watts]

It has been a relatively quiet weekend on the Island of Aruba. The focus of this story is still on Peru, but that will quickly change this week.  Dave Holloway is on his way to the Island.  He will be here later today.  I know that authorities in Peru are working very hard to get the information they need from Van Der Sloot about where Natalee’s body is.  There are alot of things I can’t discuss now.  I feel like the kid they sat down in front of a giant birthday cake — the adults tell him not to touch the cake — then leave to room.

Tonight live from Aruba at 8:00 p.m. EST with Dave Holloway’s attorney Vinda de Sousa and Former Head of the Houston FBI, Don Clark, with the very latest on the investigation — stick with the source on the ground….ME.

To listen to my show, Blogtalkradio.com/Watts-Up-With-This, click here.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

<<snipped>>

NANCY GRACE
Peru Files Murder One Charges on Van Der Sloot
Aired June 11, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/11/ng.01.html

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After reports circulate that Natalee`s skull discovered, as details of Van Der Sloot`s blackmail plot emerge and Aruban authorities head to Peru, has Van Der Sloot admitted his own father, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, helped hide Natalee`s body? And is he set from behind the walls of a Peruvian jailhouse to confess to the murder of Natalee Holloway?


Hmm....I think something's up.

Discovered??  Not likely.  The timing is so suspicious.  In my opinion ... Aruban authorities have known where Natalee Holloway's remains have been for the passed 2 1/2 years.  It was Aruban divers who on January 7, 2008 recovered unchallenged the contents of the trap discovered by the Persistence endeavor in Aruban waters.

Thank you Lifesong.  Great Catch!!

+++++++

[Ono]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

She might even want to get a little face time with Joran.

Mr. Flores did.

Wouldn't it be something if Beth & Mr. Flores went together?!

[TURBOTHINK]

I'm listening to the Podcast of Steph Watts show tonight.

Steph Watts said that Beth has arrived in Peru.

T. J. Ward is on the show.

Dr. Russell, said Joran is a psychopath.  He's a manipulator and that no law enforcement should allow him to call the shots.  Psychopath's generally have a strong sense of self preservation and that's all this "deal" is about.  He said they should tell Joran that he needs to tell them where Natalee is NOW, and MAYBE they'll think about not throwing him in general population TONIGHT!

She could only be in Peru for 2 things.

1.  To offer her condolences to Stephanys family (this is what I suspect)
2.  See if she can get into Castro Castro and rip Joran's face off

I would not want to see him, but I would want to "see" some of the prisoners in that jail and I would have a BIG POCKET full of $50.00 bills...................

Come to think of it..............I would also have a "sack of hundreds" for ones who could provide pictures.

[darleenofalabama]

Hi, Dihannah!

That's funny, Turbo!

[Tamikosmom]

THE PERSISTENCE

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

December 25, 2007 - Sonar Discover
December 29, 2007 - 1st ROV Dive
December 30, 2007 - Visual Dive and 2nd ROV Dive
January 07, 2008 - Recovery Dive and 3rd ROV Dive


KYLE KINGMAN - KEY PERSONNEL

Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Introduction

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

December 25, 2007 and December 29, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning.  I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

December 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.
 
Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.  At that point, I made the statement to all on board that we do have an interest and that we would recover the cage ourselves.  That is when Mos said they would dive on it but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive and that he would let Persistence know.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

January 07, 2008

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:    Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.

Kyle Kingman:  I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all

++++++++

[darleenofalabama]

Whatever happened to that first prosecutor who was so fond of the murderer's father?

[BUCKSHOT]

**Vinda de Sousa - probably a double agent. Helping Dave/Aruba at same. Who in the hell can the family trust?

**Joran will not tell about NH unless it benefits him. That is the only leverage he has in this case. He will not be revealing it anytime soon, especially just to be a nice guy and give the family peace of mind. The only way he spills that information will be if he receives a great benefit from it.

**he will only tell Aruba because this is his contrived plan to speak with them and further collude with them about producing the body and explaining where it has been for the past years.

**Suppose a deal is struck for Joran, but the body of NH can not physically be produced. Will Aruba tell Beth and Dave that they must use Aruba's coroners. They may hand them ashes in an urn. For sure, they will not be handing over a real body that a reputable coroner, from the states, could forensically test.

[SteveDinMD]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

It's almost a certainty that he's raped before -- with Deepak and Satish as his original "partners in crime."  It's much more doubtful that anyone else has died as a consequence. 

[darleenofalabama]

Who is that John Silvitti?  I'll bet he's going to hell in a hand basket.

[klaasend]

Whatever happened to that first prosecutor who was so fond of the murderer's father?

Karen Jansen?  She's in the NL now. 

[Lifesong]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

It's almost a certainty that he's raped before -- with Deepak and Satish as his original "partners in crime."  It's much more doubtful that anyone else has died as a consequence. 

He's a serial rapist, imo.  He'd raped plenty of times before Natalee and not just with Deepak & Satish along, again imo.

I would not at all be surprised to learn he had murdered other girls who fought back like Natalee and Stephany did.

It's really sad and infuriating.

[klaasend]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

It's almost a certainty that he's raped before -- with Deepak and Satish as his original "partners in crime."  It's much more doubtful that anyone else has died as a consequence. 

I'm thinking Thailand

[Dihannah1]

Hi Dihannah!  Good luck getting caught up!  If I'm gone for a few hours I give up, LOL

 

I wasn't able to read at work, but am now, for some reason, Thank God!  But your right, an hour gets you too far behind.  It's impossible! But thank God for all the monkeys to keep us up to date, even if I miss half of it, it's more than I'd get anywher else.

The day has come we have been waiting for and how ironic 5 yrs. to the day and nobody has given up!  I feel horrible that it took another young, innocent girl to get us where we are.   I have no doubt there are many more in between that we don't know about.  That is why he though he could get away with it again.  And of course Daddy isn't around to cover for him.  I hope Anita has finally washed her hands of him for the younger two's sakes.  But we'll see if she is stupid enough to show her face in Peru.  That will say it all.

[Port Valerie]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

It's almost a certainty that he's raped before -- with Deepak and Satish as his original "partners in crime."  It's much more doubtful that anyone else has died as a consequence. 

These two women did not die from a rape. They died from resisting him. He doesn't take frustration well. I would guess he has met frustration and opposition more than these two times. We have the "missing years" in Thailand. So there could be more, IMO.

[darleenofalabama]

And so is that Richardson.

[Tamikosmom]

Wouldn't it be something if Beth & Mr. Flores went together?!

No!

My prayer is that a time will come that Jug and Beth will get back together.  That time could come when there is a measure of closure that both will be afforded when Natalee comes home to rest on American soil.

Janet

++++++

Comments:

168 .  JUG TWITTY on January 8th, 2007 9:27 am
 
I HAVE READ ALL THE COMMENTS AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE SUPPORT.REGARDLESS OF WHAT PEOPLE MAY THINK I STILL LOVE BETH,MATT,AND NATALEE.I WILL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR THEM.I PRAY FOR CLOSURE EVERYNIGHT SO BETH CAN REST.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/01/05/sad-news-from-mountain-brook-al-jug-and-beth-twitty-divorcing/

[Tylergal]

Good to see you, Dihannah, I have been wondering where you are.  It is great to see so many of the original monkeys and the new monkeys here as a strong presence in support of both families, Natalee's and Stephany's.  Thank you all, if I have not said it before.

[darleenofalabama]

Thanks, Klaasand.  Karen Jansen, what a trip.

[Port Valerie]

Further, I don't think he kills as a result of a rape gone bad, of sexual frustration. He simply flies into a rage when someone weaker and smaller doesn't give him what he wants, whatever it is.

Remember the line "we did this twenty times and nothing ever went wrong"? I'm thinking part of the evening's routine might have been to rob the American students of a bit of cash before they went home the next day. I always thought Deepak and Satish went along with Joran to sell drugs and make a little money. Maybe they also liked to pick up some loose dollars that might be hanging around in the students' pockets.

[Tylergal]

To clarify further, I believe Stephany's pants and shoes were removed by Joran in the failed rape attempt, and that he had nothing to gain by putting them back on Stephany's dead body. 

I actually agree with this.  I believe Joran's motives were rape/robbery and he got mad.  I also believe it's happened more that twice (Natalee & Stephany).

It's almost a certainty that he's raped before -- with Deepak and Satish as his original "partners in crime."  It's much more doubtful that anyone else has died as a consequence. 

I'm thinking Thailand

Yes, where human life does not seem to be the treasure and value that we Westerners place on it.  I am so thankful for my country, its founding fathers, my Savior and all those responsible for input into my beliefs and values.