Natalee Case Discussion #838 6/12/10 -6/14/10

[Blonde]

Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-H_18WqdLo

[EURobert]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.malthus.com.br/mg_03136/03142_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.malthus.com.br/mg_imagem_zoom.asp%3Fsentido%3D%26p_ch%3D%26tipo%3D%26ordenar%3D%26autorfoto%3D%26id%3D1040%26zoom%3Dsim&usg=__h7I12mXlutVu9Bjaa0NiAXlLHVM=&h=540&w=720&sz=53&hl=en&start=125&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=EjJHQXyMOzQTyM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlivor%2Bmortis%26start%3D120%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

WARNING- GRAPHIC- Livor Mortis
I am bringing this up because I referred to it on a blog post, the amphetamines could interfere with the metabolism of her last meal so this too has to be considered. Stephany's body and the green bruises are attributable to LIVOR MORTIS, compression of the body causing blood pooling in areas that are not flush with the floor. The police will try to estimate when she ingested the amphets by establishing her time of death.

To me this also brings up the question of the feet being bruised and where.
She was restrained at the feet, probably by a belt (or perhaps her shoes were on until the end) to prevent her from kicking if she was lucid enough or because VDS thought he was going to fold her up and put her in a suitcase. Rigor Mortis sets in within two hours in the early stage.I think she was in a different position and he repositioned her. If she was face down and her feet were bound they would not be the same color as the largest part of her body in contact with the floor.

If she was on her back for even 20 minutes after death she would have started to turn colors in the places where her body was not constricted.

In any event I think she was beginning to "turn" ( livor mortis starts about 20 minutes after death) while VDS was still in the room and this is why he removed clothing to further confuse the timing of the event. and try to establish a sexual connection or even take pictures of her demise- I am sorry for including this but i feel all bases should be covered.

If he sat around and thought about how he was going to get away within the time frame that took him out of the room prior to 8:30 then he could have been mulling for over 20 minutes. Once he realized that he couldn't remove her body without an extra suitcase, he decided to go with DISCOVERY by hotel worker.

Selena

Morbid!

[Angiex911dsptchr]

He is so worried about the food.  I am assuming foreign objects or poison as opposed to a little deification or urination which would not kill him.    An extra dose of iron is not going to hurt him.  He just needs to think of it as finding the prize in a cracker jack box.

Off to see how warm the pool is . It is already 18c here (65F) and is supposed to get to 71 today which is way too hot for us.  Can not even imagine what Anna is dealing with at over 100 degrees when we start melting at 70 lol.  My air conditioner is already running.

 I had to go back and find your post !!
Hmmm.. I been wondering why hes worried about the food too.. and now saying hes sick in the head,,


Just wondering if he may start acting like a paranoid schizophrenic..thinking his food is being poisoned so he can go to some mental hospital insetad?

Sorry.. just thinking out loud here and know Schizos have a fear of things being put into their food.

It's been in the press fairly recently in Aruba that Luis Mansur (Domino case) was afraid of being poisoned.

And I think that's what a lot of people in Aruba believe happened to Maiky Farro when he died after being taken to the hospital from KIA.

http://sxmislandtime.com/index.php?view=article&catid=31:general&id=922:aruba-new-arrest-in-embezzlement-case-landlab-&option=com_content&Itemid=58

http://www.diario.aw/2010/02/autopsia-riba-curpa-di-maiky-farro-lo-a-trece-resultadonan-nobo/

  Thanks for the links TM !

[Angiex911dsptchr]

All he needs now is some moe-rockas! lol

 LOL and the little cartoon dude.. Speedy Gonzalus   <I dunno how to spell it..lol>

[canoworms]

EUrobert. I spologize, but I am thinking of the time of death and all the apologists on other boards refuse to look at her body as the evidence...she entered the room with Sloot and left it dead.
Selena

[Gypsy DD]

Media representative = Julia?  Who else would accompany Anita anywhere?

I can't think of many other possibilities.

.

Anna - what are you referring to?  Which post/link?  TIA

No particular post.  I am replying to San pointing out that Anita is supposed to be going to Peru and taking a media representative instead of a lawyer.  I am speculating (see my ? mark) who this could be, Anita's media representative.  That's my guess as to who might go with her if it is oddly enough a media representative instead of an attorney to help Joran. 

Even his own mother is more concerned with PR than helping Joran.

Van der Sloot jailed on first-degree murder charge
The Associated Press
Friday Jun. 11, 2010 6:44 PM ET

Reached by the AP, Altez refused to discuss the case. He said Van der Sloot's schoolteacher mother, Anita, would be arriving early next week with the family's own media adviser.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20100611/van-der-sloot-suspect-100611/

Oh Lordy..Anita never gives up..how in the world does she think she can spin this one..her son in jail..two murders mirroring each other 5 years apart to the day..and she brings her own media advisor?

I think Anita sometimes does not feel right in the head either.

[Ono]

That looks good for a sitz bath!

LOL

[Edward]

EUrobert. I spologize, but I am thinking of the time of death and all the apologists on other boards refuse to look at her body as the evidence...she entered the room with Sloot and left it dead.
Selena

We do research and I appreciate the info morbid or not. It is something I was not aware of. wether it is relative to this case or not I do not know. 

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Monkeys!

Wow! I'm so glad to see Joran's "new digs". Looks like he really is Joran of the ditch, now!

Anita's coming with a media advisor? ROFLMAO!

I'm sure the media advisor can convince the witch doctors to put a more flattering face of Joran on their voo doo dolls as they stab them!

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/13/joran-van-der-sloot-fears-for-his-life-in-peruvian-prison-woman-of-the-world-feel-safer/

Joran Van der Sloot Fears for His Life in Peruvian Prison … Women of the World Feel Safer

[canoworms]

Thank you Edward, I think it supersedes coffeecups and playing knock-knock. He was running out of creative explanations and she was already a liability that he wasn't able to remove or revive.
i don't like to draw conclusions based on one piece of evidence alone but his lies are legend and the Peruvian Police know not to trust him for any plea deals about Aruban visits to uncover what was hidden five years ago.
Selena

[Edward]

He is so worried about the food.  I am assuming foreign objects or poison as opposed to a little deification or urination which would not kill him.    An extra dose of iron is not going to hurt him.  He just needs to think of it as finding the prize in a cracker jack box.

Off to see how warm the pool is . It is already 18c here (65F) and is supposed to get to 71 today which is way too hot for us.  Can not even imagine what Anna is dealing with at over 100 degrees when we start melting at 70 lol.  My air conditioner is already running.

 I had to go back and find your post !!
Hmmm.. I been wondering why hes worried about the food too.. and now saying hes sick in the head,,


Just wondering if he may start acting like a paranoid schizophrenic..thinking his food is being poisoned so he can go to some mental hospital insetad?

Sorry.. just thinking out loud here and know Schizos have a fear of things being put into their food.

It's been in the press fairly recently in Aruba that Luis Mansur (Domino case) was afraid of being poisoned.

And I think that's what a lot of people in Aruba believe happened to Maiky Farro when he died after being taken to the hospital from KIA.

http://sxmislandtime.com/index.php?view=article&catid=31:general&id=922:aruba-new-arrest-in-embezzlement-case-landlab-&option=com_content&Itemid=58

http://www.diario.aw/2010/02/autopsia-riba-curpa-di-maiky-farro-lo-a-trece-resultadonan-nobo/

  Thanks for the links TM !

Luis Mansur.. "the boss"
Very important figure when Natalee went missing and somebody Paulus Joran was familiar with.
Joran could have brought Natalee to a request.. and this is one guy who could have made such a request.

[Northern Rose]

Joran van der Sloot gave different versions about the murder of Stephany in Chile and Peru
Netherlands refused to sign its statement in Chile to learn that our country would be expelled to

Lima (AP). The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot gave to the police different versions in Chile and Peru on Flores Stephany's death occurred on May 30 in Lima.

The AP agreed to police questioning the Dutchman responded first to Chile and then Peru, and found that their versions were different.

DIFFERENT VERSIONS
While in Peru the Dutchman admitted to being the murderer of Flores, in Chile said it was a robber who fatally struck the girl during an alleged assault on the hotel room where they were both early on 30 May.

"A man came out of the bathroom door blocking access with a knife in his hand. On the bed was another man with a gun. The man with the knife said to be quiet, but Stephany began to speak out loud and he hit her in the face making him bleed from the nose, "said Van der Sloot to the International Police (Interpol) in Chile.

He also stated, when asked on 3 June by the Chileans, one day before the death of Flores, were extorted on a street in Lima for alleged police officers who had to pay $ 4000 and give one of her bracelets had achieved Thailand.


She refused to sign
The Chilean police told his Peruvian colleagues Dutchman 22 years the questions answered in English, but "refused to sign his statement" to learn to be deported to Peru.

Van der Sloot was arrested in Lima on June 5 from Chile. A day after Peruvian police said in a different version, which killed Flores in the hotel.

"I'll kill you, MONGOLITO"
According to the records, she died half an hour after the Dutchman received a threatening message through Facebook by the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway that said "I'll kill mongolito." Mongolito, is a derogatory term meaning +++++++ in several Latin American countries.

Narrated, explaining Flores about the demise of the U.S. on the island of Aruba in 2005, "she hit her head on the left side with his fist." And the violence broke out.

Van der Sloot, 1.91 meters tall, Flores explained that hit the right elbow "just above the nose", then strangled and suffocated.

"It crossed my mind for a moment to hide the body of Stephany Flores, but he could not see the scene because there was too much blood in the room," he confessed.

He added that after killing the two Peruvian took credit cards, your identity, about $ 304 and left in the Flower Jeep. Exactly five years earlier had killed Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

JUICE IN THE CASINO
The Dutchman admitted that the night before the death of Flores drank Pisco Sour and whiskey cola in a casino while playing blackjack and poker together with the Peruvian.

A judge on Friday opened criminal proceedings for homicide Van der Sloot, who could face a prison sentence of between 15 and 35 years in prison. The justice ruled that tackles the process stopped at the Miguel Castro Castro prison where he is detained in a cell member in the flag of prevention.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/494360/joran-van-der-sloot-dio-versiones-distintas-sobre-asesinato-stephany-chile-peru

[Ono]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/13/joran-van-der-sloot-fears-for-his-life-in-peruvian-prison-woman-of-the-world-feel-safer/

Joran Van der Sloot Fears for His Life in Peruvian Prison … Women of the World Feel Safer

Well said !!!!!

[klaasend]

You know I'm reading the latest from Foxnews:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/11/van-der-sloot-reveal-location-holloways-remains-transferred-aruban-prison/

Van Der Sloot Willing to Tell Where Holloway's Buried in Exchange for Transfer to Aruba


It would be nice if the prison officials would say to Joran "give us information that leads to the discovery of Natalee's body OR we will put you in general population immediately"

[Ono]

Thank you Edward, I think it supersedes coffeecups and playing knock-knock. He was running out of creative explanations and she was already a liability that he wasn't able to remove or revive.
i don't like to draw conclusions based on one piece of evidence alone but his lies are legend and the Peruvian Police know not to trust him for any plea deals about Aruban visits to uncover what was hidden five years ago.
Selena

I agree-every fact discovered & reasoned out helps piece together the complete story. Welcome!

[carpe noctem]

That not signing your name stuff only works in Aruba.

Nice try, Mr. Tricky guy not signing your name feller.

Peruvians will take your word for it.

[Tamikosmom]

You know I'm reading the latest from Foxnews:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/11/van-der-sloot-reveal-location-holloways-remains-transferred-aruban-prison/

Van Der Sloot Willing to Tell Where Holloway's Buried in Exchange for Transfer to Aruba


It would be nice if the prison officials would say to Joran "give us information that leads to the discovery of Natalee's body OR we will put you in general population immediately"

EXACTLY!!

Take the control away from Joran!

Janet

[spooky112483]

I'm still behind but, like CBB, I think better as I type it out. LOL
So I've been trying to imagine the scenario after they get inside the room.
First off, I am leaning toward that she was not drugged (but that could change tomorrow).
Secondly I can't imagine Stephany leaving a casino to go play onine poker in a seedy hostel with some dude she met 2-3 days ago when she has no sexual intrest in him. I mean, she was just in a real casino. So I don't quite buy into that theory.
So the only one that makes sense at this time is that she loaned him money. Now she didn't have to loan it to him that night. We don't see it on the video so she could have lent it to him the night before and she's just now meeting back up with him and he's like "yeah I've got it in my room but sit down and play alittle first and then we'll go get it." It's also possible that we haven't seen all the tapes yet and that's why we dont see her loaning the money.
Ok, so she's going with him to get the money. They enter the room. It's 5am, she's only there to get the money and go home and go to bed. (Wasn't it said that she had already been out with her friends earlier and after leaving them she went to the casino? That could mean she only went to the casino to get her money from him, not to play. She did look alittle hesitant at the table, like she didn't want to sit down and play. But oh, what the hell, I guess I can play alittle) So they walk in, now she has no sexual intrest, and he knows he's not gonna pay her the money so he's stalling. He says oh have a seat, would you like a smoke (maybe weed) She prolly says I really should be going if you could just get the money.....and aftr his stalling tactics run out he hits her. I don't think they were in the room more than 10-15 minutes before he hits her.
Well, ok that's just what I'm thinking...subject to change lol!

[Ono]

Per Steph Watts:

"Dave Holloway will be in Aruba later today."

http://stephww.wordpress.com/