Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 - 6/17/10

[MsVada]

Do you think Kath's just trying to infiltrate his circle and gain confidences to try to get information to solve Natalee's case?  Although, it's certainly a crazy method.  Surely she couldn't really befriend or approve of them!!

Personally, I think Hotshot is a delusional nutjob, but that's just me.

Who is Kath????

Isn't she the nutjob who attended an Aruba travel show boycott and used that time to get a discounted trip to Aruba. 

 Didn't she at one time have a website with their findings during a trip to aruba with a couple other posters, one who had a hubby with a PI business?  It was more than just them boycotting Aruba.   They were there  around the time that the natural bridge collapsed taking  photos.

Yes, I think there were a couple of websites.

Thanks 2NJ

[Jo-An]

"Lawyer Joran stays '

Published: June 15, 2010 5:47 p.m.
Last updated: June 15, 2010 5:46 p.m.

LONDON - Lawyer Máximo Altez made the defense of Joran van der Sloot was not down. Peruvian media reported Monday that he would quit because his family has to suffer under.

Lawyer Altez be relocated to an undisclosed location because the windows of his office were smashed.

The lawyer had previously know to object to the admission to be quoted Van der Sloot about the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores. The statement was illegally obtained.
Holloway
Van der Sloot said he Flores late May in his hotel room in the Peruvian capital Lima, was beaten and strangled because she had read something on his laptop on the case of Natalee Holloway. Van der Sloot is suspected in Aruba in 2005 of involvement in the disappearance of the U.S..
Van der Sloot's mother wants the case against her son in the Netherlands continues. It has a prominent Peruvian lawyer said at the World Service.
Infeasible
According to her lawyer who would have spoken is legally possible but in practice unattainable.
A lawyer who wishes to remain anonymous, fears that Van der Sloot is no fair trial. The mass hysteria about the murder would be impossible.

http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2270547/advocaat-joran-blijft-toch-aan.html

Mommy, mommy, mommy... *shakes head*

[jjayinthemorning]

I do not know either  However ... I do hold John Q. Kelly in very high regard.

Janet

I don't know Kelly but I do know Bo and his reputation. He plays the fence. Couldn't make it in Homeland Security so he's getting whatever he can on the streets. The reason he couldn't make it in Homeland Security... well... that's complicated because there are bigger players than him and he's all talk. But he's good chum and bait I suppose. heh.

Not wanting to discredit what you are saying, but Bo Dietl was Bo before 9-1-1 and his services were very much in demand and as far as Bernie, he cleaned up NY City from the rat hole it was to a nice surviving place to visit.   We all have our shortcomings and Bo has been the unspoken hero in many parades and large events in NYC where the participants remained safe from an act of terror.

Yeah and the new mayor of NYC is allowing a mosque to be built at Ground Zero to be dedicated Sept 11, 2011. Bloomberg has parades too.
Bo has a reputation among professionals that make him unwanted. He got where he is by stepping on alot of people. He's similar to Blagojevich and can't get a job in political circles anymore. So when he had the info on the extortion thing he turned it over to the Feds and was asked to stfu... when the Feds tell you to stfu that's not a good thing.

[AZSunny]

Murder suspect arrives in Peru after expulsion from Chile
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 4, 2010 5:17 p.m. EDT

Van der Sloot's former attorney, Joseph Tacopina, told CNN it was too early to reach any conclusions.

"I just think we need to take a step back before we get to the 'I told you so' stage, and let's see what the evidence is here," Tacopina said Thursday.

Tacopina said he is not representing van der Sloot and no longer has a good relationship with the family.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/04/peru.murder.case/index.html


Thanks Janet for this info.  I have been trying to find it since I read it the first time.  I wonder what happened to the "good relationship".  My guess is money.  I can not believe he would get involved again, and if he did why?  He can not practice law in Peru, and I suspect he doesn't know anymore about their laws as he does Aruban law.  Just a front man-spokesperson for the family?  This is too much, I thought we were done with Tacopenis.

[Tylergal]

I do not know either  However ... I do hold John Q. Kelly in very high regard.

Janet

I don't know Kelly but I do know Bo and his reputation. He plays the fence. Couldn't make it in Homeland Security so he's getting whatever he can on the streets. The reason he couldn't make it in Homeland Security... well... that's complicated because there are bigger players than him and he's all talk. But he's good chum and bait I suppose. heh.

Not wanting to discredit what you are saying, but Bo Dietl was Bo before 9-1-1 and his services were very much in demand and as far as Bernie, he cleaned up NY City from the rat hole it was to a nice surviving place to visit.   We all have our shortcomings and Bo has been the unspoken hero in many parades and large events in NYC where the participants remained safe from an act of terror.

Yeah and the new mayor of NYC is allowing a mosque to be built at Ground Zero to be dedicated Sept 11, 2011. Bloomberg has parades too.
Bo has a reputation among professionals that make him unwanted. He got where he is by stepping on alot of people. He's similar to Blagojevich and can't get a job in political circles anymore. So when he had the info on the extortion thing he turned it over to the Feds and was asked to stfu... when the Feds tell you to stfu that's not a good thing.

I really don't know what Bloomberg has to do with the conversation we are having.  Please understand that there is more to Bo Dietl than this case of Natalee.  There was a movie made about him and he has appeared in and been the subject of Law & Order. 

[Dihannah1]

http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/entertainment/201006/47973.php

Van der Sloot's Lawyer Trouble

[snipped]

Kelly is deeply disappointed in the failed attempt, and the FBI has washed its hands of any responsibility in Flores’ murder. In a press release posted on the FBI website, they explain that because Van der Sloot was in Aruba when he contacted Kelly, they did not have enough of a case to bust the Dutch man. The statement says: “News accounts have also questioned why charges were not brought earlier, so that the tragic death of Stephany Flores could have been avoided … Despite having been in motion for several weeks at the time of Miss Flores’ death, it was not sufficiently developed to bring charges prior to the time Van der Sloot left Aruba.”

But even if he had stayed, it is unlikely he would have been held accountable for Holloway’s murder, even if he had told Holloway’s attorneys exactly what happened. Aruban authorities have never had great success investigating Van der Sloot, who, along with Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, has been arrested twice in connection with Holloway’s murder. Both times they were released due to lack of evidence—mainly Holloway’s body.
Had Van der Sloot stayed in Aruba, the American extortion case would have likely stuck. Kelly says he believes he would have been convicted of extortion. Doing time in an Alabama jail could have easily softened him up to finally tell the truth about Holloway. Doing time in Peru will likely have the opposite effect.

Maybe I'm just feeling cynical today, or just beginning to face reality.  He's never going to pay for Natalee's death, nor tell where her body is.  It makes me sick that Aruba allowed him to get off so far as to go to Peru and take another innocent girls life, where he is finally, at least, being punished. Prisons are hell, compared to American Prisons.  But I just don't see Natalee getting the true justice she deserves.  I pray his sentence is enough to pays or sufferes enough for both girls in Peru.  But poor Beth....

[MisGivings]

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6584308n&tag=api

[Shan1628]

Greta referred to her own experience visiting Joran's parents with Beth. She did not mention her own lap-dog interview with Joran himself.

FWIW, the footage she showed of Anita did not match the narrative line. That was Anita at a different time. Remember, Paulus made them turn off the cameras before Beth and Greta were invited in. There were actually no cameras at the interview Greta was talking about.

I don't like Greta very much any more.

Me neither Port V......I was switching back an forth between her and NG....I am not sure which I dislike the most!!!

Trying to catch up. Story of my life.  Greta made me feel 'embarrassed to be an American last night.  She needs to go see the Wizard of Oz for that heart.  I'm done with her.  I emailed her show about it too. 

[Jo-An]

Lawyer Joran remains
Published on June 15, 2010 - 5:02 pm
LIMA (RNW) - The lawyer for Joran van der Sloot, Máximo Altez, put the defense of the Dutch still continue.

Previously it was known that Altez was planning to stop, because his family recently "had many problems. But from a reliable source has told Radio Netherlands that the lawyer with the case still continues. The windows of his office were smashed, and therefore puts Altez his work from an undisclosed location.

Netherlands
The mother of Joran van der Sloot wants the lawsuit against her son in the Netherlands continues. It has a prominent Peruvian lawyer said at the World Service. According to the lawyer, who spoke with the mother of Joran, is that legally possible in theory. But in practice it seems not feasible. It would only be possible if the Peruvian government agrees, which seems unlikely.

Mass Hysteria
The lawyer, speaking on the basis of anonymity, also fears that Van der Sloot is no fair trial in Peru ahead. He attributes that to the mass hysteria surrounding the case originated in Peru. Due to the enormous attention of the Peruvian media for the case is an inescapable image of Van der Sloot put down as a cold killer, said the lawyer.

Psychiatrists
According to him, Joran not a lawyer alswel a medical team consisting of psychiatrists and psychologists. The Dutch Embassy in Lima is concerned about the condition and treatment of the accused.

Joran van der Sloot has confessed that he was late last month the 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramírez has slain in a hotel in the capital Lima. According to this statement Altez unlawfully obtained.

The family of the victim wants the Dutchman gets life. They assume that it was a robbery. Currently, the indictment "premeditated murder", for which the maximum penalty is 35 years in Peru. Van der Sloot has said he Stephany Ramirez Flores, in a fit of rage brought to life.

http://www.rnw.nl/nederlands/bulletin/advocaat-joran-blijft-toch-aan

So this is basically the same report that I posted earlier, but this is the actual source.
I guess the "anonymous" lawyer is that Césara Nakazaki who we heard of earlier today.

[Tamikosmom]

Bo Dietl's position in regards to where the blame should be directed for allowing Joran van der Sloot to flee Aruba is very clear and ... Dietl's  position is one with the attorney who has represented the family of Natalee well.

Janet

++++++

Investigator Points Finger At Aruban Government
Updated: Thursday, 10 Jun 2010, 9:39 AM EDT
Published : Thursday, 10 Jun 2010, 9:22 AM EDT
 
Dietl adds that the Aruban government should be taken to task for not holding Van der Sloot in custody after the extortion plot.

"Everyone is pointing fingers at the FBI. What about the Aruban government? He made incriminating statements there. Why didn't they lock him up? How many others did he kill? He is a homicidal maniac."

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_ny/investigator-points-finger-at-aruban-government-20100610-kc


Deadly Connection?
June 11, 2010

JOHN KELLY: I think at the minimum, the Aruban authorities could've picked him up, and they had the ability to hold him there at that time.  It was their country, it was their island, it was their citizen. They controlled the port, and apparently, they knew he was leaving when he was leaving.

CHRIS HANSEN: Had they prevented him from leaving, arguably, a young woman in Lima, Peru could be alive today.

JOHN KELLY: I don't think it's arguably.  If he wasn't in Peru, she'd be alive today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37650865/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/6/

[canoworms]

Greta referred to her own experience visiting Joran's parents with Beth. She did not mention her own lap-dog interview with Joran himself.

FWIW, the footage she showed of Anita did not match the narrative line. That was Anita at a different time. Remember, Paulus made them turn off the cameras before Beth and Greta were invited in. There were actually no cameras at the interview Greta was talking about.

I don't like Greta very much any more.

from the beginning there were "personalities" and "characters" and we have had to barf through them to get to real PERSONS and CHARACTER. I felt the need to email her, too. Never watched her show but read all the transcripts and how much balls must one have to sit in the home of a murder victims family and appear to be so flip about what just happened to their only daughter.
Some people have no clue.


Me neither Port V......I was switching back an forth between her and NG....I am not sure which I dislike the most!!!

Trying to catch up. Story of my life.  Greta made me feel 'embarrassed to be an American last night.  She needs to go see the Wizard of Oz for that heart.  I'm done with her.  I emailed her show about it too. 

[canoworms]

Oh hey...I screwed up my quotes!
give me a banana....
Selena

[blah]

Two paranoid psychotics playing poker. . . my, what could possibly go wrong there?

I would bet the hitman knows how to make prison weapons.

[MisGivings]

OK, Joran has befriended Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, the Colombian hit man accused of the crime of Myriam Fefer. Is this a smart move or one he will come to regret?
Is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina feared by other prisoners there, enough where the other prisoners will stay away from harming Joran, or is he just a noted criminal?
Do you think in exchange for 'special favors', the warden asked Ospina to befriend Jordan, hoping he will continue his reign of doofus of the year to confess his murder of Natalee, and more details about the savage murder of Stephany?
I hope the only TV this punk watches is CNN.

[ozziesmom]

OK, Joran has befriended Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, the Colombian hit man accused of the crime of Myriam Fefer. Is this a smart move or one he will come to regret?
Is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina feared by other prisoners there, enough where the other prisoners will stay away from harming Joran, or is he just a noted criminal?
Do you think in exchange for 'special favors', the warden asked Ospina to befriend Jordan, hoping he will continue his reign of doofus of the year to confess his murder of Natalee, and more details about the savage murder of Stephany?
I hope the only TV this punk watches is CNN.

In prison you can't trust anyone....so Joran better watch what he says.....and he seems to always say too much!

[ozziesmom]

I haven't been able to read back.....any news from Dave and Tim in Aruba???? Are they giving him the run around still?  What's the word on the meeting with Peruvian prosecuters?

 

[MisGivings]

OK, Joran has befriended Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, the Colombian hit man accused of the crime of Myriam Fefer. Is this a smart move or one he will come to regret?
Is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina feared by other prisoners there, enough where the other prisoners will stay away from harming Joran, or is he just a noted criminal?
Do you think in exchange for 'special favors', the warden asked Ospina to befriend Jordan, hoping he will continue his reign of doofus of the year to confess his murder of Natalee, and more details about the savage murder of Stephany?
I hope the only TV this punk watches is CNN.

In prison you can't trust anyone....so Joran better watch what he says.....and he seems to always say too much!

Maybe Ospina made Joran his bitch, and then when he sees his 'goods', no pun intended, he will feel cheated and disappointed and kill Joran to avoid further embarrassment?

[ozziesmom]

OK, Joran has befriended Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, the Colombian hit man accused of the crime of Myriam Fefer. Is this a smart move or one he will come to regret?
Is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina feared by other prisoners there, enough where the other prisoners will stay away from harming Joran, or is he just a noted criminal?
Do you think in exchange for 'special favors', the warden asked Ospina to befriend Jordan, hoping he will continue his reign of doofus of the year to confess his murder of Natalee, and more details about the savage murder of Stephany?
I hope the only TV this punk watches is CNN.

In prison you can't trust anyone....so Joran better watch what he says.....and he seems to always say too much!

Maybe Ospina made Joran his bitch, and then when he sees his 'goods', no pun intended, he will feel cheated and disappointed and kill Joran to avoid further embarrassment?

Mis....LMAO!

[Shan1628]

The fun - it is never ending.


-----

Exclusive: Caylee Anthony's Grandparents on Natalee Holloway, Joran Van der Sloot
Caylee Anthony's Grandmother Said She Can Identify With Natalee Holloway's Mom, Not Van der Sloot's


By ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, KAITLYN FOLMER and LEE FERRAN
June 15, 2010


On the second anniversary of Caylee Anthony's disappearance , the toddler's grandparents said they can identify with Natalee Holloway's mother, but not with the mother of suspected murderer Joran van der Sloot -- despite the murder charges against their daughter, Casey Anthony.

A judge in Peru officially has charged the young man with murder.



"I don't know if I can identify with Mrs. Van Der Sloot because her son has confessed to something," Caylee's grandmother, Cindy Anthony, said in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "You know, there have been issues where she saw his angry side. I don't know that of Casey. I don't know Casey as being anybody that could hurt anybody."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/exclusive-cindy-anthony-caylee-anthonys-grandmother-natalee-holloway/story?id=10913252

OFCS She's another one that needs to just go back in her hole and shut up.

Oh and Good Morning Monkeys lol

They all need sent to Peru for Murder and Obstruction of Justice....That MIGHT shut them up.  SHEESH!  Stupid Anthonys.

[Samantha]

Expert: US Could Charge van der Sloot With Holloway's Murder
Updated: 6 hours 42 minutes ago

June 14) -- Joran van der Sloot, the young Dutchman charged in the killing of a 21-year-old Peruvian woman, could be indicted by U.S. authorities for the murder of Natalee Holloway, a legal expert tells AOL News.

"In this particular case with van der Sloot, if the Arubans won't do anything with this guy, the U.S. could conceivably -- once he is released in Peru -- extradite him back to the states and prosecute him for Holloway's murder," says Michael Griffith, senior partner at the International Legal Defense Counsel.

Griffith also thinks the U.S. could leverage that threat to get the 22-year-old Dutch native to reveal the location of Holloway's body.

Van der Sloot was arrested earlier this month in the slaying of Stephany Flores. She was found dead in van der Sloot's Lima, Peru, hotel room on June 2, setting off a police manhunt that ended with his arrest in Chile the following day. Van der Sloot is equally infamous for his longtime association with the disappearance of Holloway, an 18-year-old Alabama woman who vanished on a trip to Aruba in 2005.

Holloway was last seen leaving a nightclub with van der Sloot. Her body has never been found. There are reports of van der Sloot making multiple confessions in the case.

According to Griffith, the passive personality principle of international law allows a country to prosecute someone who has killed or injured an American citizen in a foreign country. In essence, jurisdiction is based on the nationality of the victim and not the location of the crime.

"One example of that would be the Leon Klinghoffer case," Griffith said.

In 1985, Klinghoffer, 69, and his wife were celebrating their 36th wedding anniversary on the cruise ship Achille Lauro. Palestinian terrorists hijacked the liner, and Klinghoffer was murdered and thrown overboard. The hijackers were later given safe passage on a flight to Tunisia, but the U.S. Air Force intercepted the plane and forced it to land in Italy, where the suspects were taken into custody.

"The U.S. has secondary jurisdiction over van der Sloot because of the extortion case," Griffith explains. "Because of that, and statements he allegedly made on video, the U.S. now has reasonable cause to believe, I would ascertain, that he's responsible for the Holloway killing."

On June 3, federal authorities in Alabama charged van der Sloot with extortion in connection with the disappearance of Holloway. Officials say van der Sloot offered to provide information on Holloway's disappearance in exchange for $250,000. An intermediary acting under the FBI's direction met with van der Sloot at a hotel in Aruba and allegedly gave him a partial payment of $10,000 in cash. An additional $15,000 was wired to van der Sloot via a financial institution in the Netherlands, U.S. authorities say.

Upon receiving the initial payment, van der Sloot allegedly spoke about Holloway's case -- discussions that were secretly recorded by the FBI -- and pointed out a location where her body could be found. Authorities later discovered Holloway's remains were not there.

However, Griffith said van der Sloot's alleged statements, along with his previous confessions in the case, are enough for U.S. authorities to make a circumstantial murder case against him.

"Now is the time for the U.S., which has Department of Justice offices in Peru, to have a three-way meeting with officials there and van der Sloot," Griffith said. "This could be done now. Van der Sloot has already said he knows where [Holloway] is."

Van der Sloot faces 15 to 35 years in prison if he is convicted of the murder charge in Peru. He would be required to serve only a third of that time. After that, he would face a possible five- to 10-year sentence on the extortion charges. All totaled, he could conceivably serve less than 20 years in jail.

However, if convicted in the U.S. for Holloway's murder, he could face life in prison -- something that Griffith said gives U.S. officials the edge right now.

"The Holloways need to at least find their daughter," Griffith said. "They don't want to wait 10 years till he gets parole and is extradited. The Peruvian authorities have no jurisdiction for the murder of Holloway, but we do because he allegedly killed an American citizen.

"Make the deal right now," Griffith continued. "Tell him, 'We have enough on you circumstantially already, but by the time you get out we'll have a lot more, and you'll never see the light of day again. If you know where the body is, tell us now, and we won't extradite you on a murder charge.'"

Whether authorities in the U.S. will invoke the passive personality principle is yet to be decided. However, Holloway's family is apparently anxious for answers. The Associated Press reported Monday that Holloway's father, Dave Holloway, is in Aruba and plans to meet with prosecutors today to see if they have received any new information about his daughter's disappearance.

Meanwhile, van der Sloot's attorney, Maximo Altez Navarro, has withdrawn from the case. According to The Daily Beast, Navarro did not believe his client's family could afford to pay for his services. Additionally, he was troubled by threats he has been receiving since taking on the case.
Filed under: Nation, World, Crime



http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/legal-expert-us-could-charge-joran-van-der-sloot-with-holloways-murder/19515801?icid=main|main|dl1|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fcrime%2Farticle%2Flegal-expert-us-could-charge-joran-van-der-sloot-with-holloways-murder%2F19515801