Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 - 6/17/10

[Tater]

This is not photoshopped either, it is from the ROV and is the bagged evidence showing bones and the denim material thought to be Natalee's skirt.

So are we to believe it was a male.....wearing a denim skirt.....GMAFB

I can tell you IF these were Natalee's remains, they will NEVER be found now. IMO

I disagree.  If these were in fact Natalee's remains Aruba has them.  Not having these remains would give the Sloots total advantage over Aruba.

I felt just like you do at first, seeme.  It took me some time but I've come around to San's point of view.  It makes to me now that they would indeed keep the remains.  It's important to separate the crimes here.  The murder was one thing, the coverup another and they were committed by different parties, imo.  Each needs proof of the other's wrong doing to protect themselves.

JMO

Exactly Lifesong.  You explained it so much better than me.

Except it's been one for all and all for one since day one,no? If there are no remains to be found,better for all involved.Just the way I see it...

[TURBOTHINK]

ludwick's family must be so proud.

I would expect so glad his mother isn't teaching my kids !

CNN has his interview up already but I'm not posting the link, no sense in giving him one ounce more than his 15 minutes of fame I say.

I'm wondering if NG saw this as an opportunity simply to get those emails out there? If so, to see that trail of dates perhaps was worth suffering the fool she had to get them from.

I don't think his mother is really a teacher. When I was talking to a friend of mine who lived in Aruba during 2005 & 06, she said that his mother was a "reader" at the schools. My friend is a teacher and was there with a mission team. She said AVS had no teaching credentials and to her understanding no educational credentials. There was much discussion and gossip on the island about her background and how her husbands family was "devastated" when he married her and the gossip was she came from a "not so honorable profession" in Amsterdam streets.

[San]

Aruba became involved after the fact.  Their prosecutor, police chief, corrupt government inserted themselves in this coverup.  Some did it for the island and some did it because of friendships.  Once they went all in there was no turning back.  They needed to protect themselves from the Sloots.  They knew what they were dealing with.  The only way they could was to keep Natalee's body in eyesight.  JMO.

[Kermit]

Here's mine...

Steph,

While you are on the island, perhaps you'll have time to check into what was done with the remains removed from the crab trap by the Aruban divers on January 7, 2008.  Tim Miller has said that he was told by Aruban officials that tests came back to show they were male human remains.  Now, that goes to show they were indeed human remains I think, but were they really male?  And if so, who's were they?  Doesn't that person's family deserve to know what happened to their loved one?  So many questions - no answers.

Here's the link again: http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/one-not-so-happy-island/

Does anyone have a link to where Tim Miller says there were human (male) remains in the crab trap. All I remember was Kyle dodgeing the question.

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[Whodunit?]

Hello all! I'm not really sure how to post here as it's been a long time since I have been here. A lot of names still look familiar.

So proud of all of you who have been fighting for Natalee for all of these years!

Who

[TURBOTHINK]

I guess I am one that is on the fence about the crab trap and natalee being in it.....Granted the colors match in the picture posted but I am not convinced that the clothing would  have deteriorated in salt water so much.  I have a friend who dives locally and can remember him pulling up an entire leather wallet and denim jacket that had been in for years.  He found the license of the owner and called,  turns out that the jacket was lost off a fishing boat more than 6 years before.  shortly after removing from the salt water, they deteriorated.  Bones would have been found, am I missing something?


I did see a pic a lil while ago from some people who were diving and thought they discovered remains,  I think they were dismissed as anything substantial.

IIRC, the Aruba LE dive team took over and would not let them back down there. They even made Tim leave the original search boat. I am convinced they found something because they never alerted the FBI dive team and they were on the island at the time. They took everything and in my opinion none of it will ever surface again.  The best that can happen will be one of their own will rat them out. Bribes are very effective in that area.

[seemeatthebeach]

Aruba became involved after the fact.  Their prosecutor, police chief, corrupt government inserted themselves in this coverup.  Some did it for the island and some did it because of friendships.  Once they went all in there was no turning back.  They needed to protect themselves from the Sloots.  They knew what they were dealing with.  The only way they could was to keep Natalee's body in eyesight.  JMO.

So now what?.....are they gonna plant her remains somewhere to be found, and say Joran dumped her there, or Paulus?.....dead man can't talk.

[BUCKSHOT]

Tyler, I think that was very well said; and so true.

I agree..Tyler I heart you...but you know that already!!

I heart all of you for filling me in on the politics of the game.   I'll never inquire of her again for fear of being accused of being a gossip from out of nowhere when I'm only wishing factual clarity & sunshine on the situation, of which I am in the dark!!!  lol   Yikes!

Ono......don't ever stop asking.....some of us are oldtimers and forget not everyone was here from the beginning.  I would not like to be in the dark!!

OK, here's a question from a poster who's been here from day 1.  Though I did take a small break.  I remember Capslockwizard, but I never saw who he really was, how he was related to the players in Aruba and how we figured it out?

OK. I will take a stab at answering this question.

During the time of the Persiastence searches, CAPSLOCKWIZARD emerged here and took a quick interest to the case.
He claimed to have intimate knowledge and asserted the ability to decode the ultra mysterious Shango/Simian riddles.

Over time, his IP addresses were tracked and it was learned that CLW was actually more than one person - four to be exact.
Furthermore, physical locations (through IPs) and login times narrowed identity even further.
After putting two and two together, several names of identity emerged. These people's identities are linked to Aruba.
One step further, they are linked to known disinformants, and collusionists within the cover-up and corruption.
Even further, the information provided by CLW turned out to be a mere distraction, amidst a critical point in the case, in most eyes.
That critical point was during the searches in the ocean as CLW swore up and down that the body could be found in a pond.
CLW also claimed to be on the inside with ALE and helped provide certain info to them, thru clandestined meetings, amidst these searches.
CLW even went so far as to right letters to Dave and was very curious about certain individuals on our board.

To a degree, his tactics worked somewhat until discovered and called out publicly here at SM.
During his tenure, though, most people were all ears as his posts containes some pretty unusual and specificly crypted information.
Hindsight always being 20/20, it was too good to be true that after all the time that had passed, a new poster came here,
piques the interest of many, acting like he had a magically omniscient power to solve all of the unknowns that SM posters
had so dilligently scoured over for years. Needless to say, it is a well known fact that CLW was just a well planted and deivsed diversion.

Hope that sums it up for you. That is my take on the matter, in as short and sweet of a manner as I can put iy.
Other posters will probably provide more specifics and a better summation than I have given.

[seemeatthebeach]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

[Kermit]

DAVE HOLLOWAYS ATTORNEY VINDA DE SOUSA



Vinda de Sousa is friends with Marlene Purcell
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5807.660




Vinda de Sousa is drinking buddy with Julia Renfro

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6448.msg1050578#msg1050578


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 136:  We're fortunate that one of the men from home here to help us is an attorney, so he personnally interviews several Aruban lawyers and decides Vinda de Sousa will be as good as any.  Her retainer is $5,000 up front.

Page 179:  During this time we add a new attorney, Helen Lejuez, who tells us she is confident that we can access official documents for us.  Her retainer is also $5,000 up front.  We give her copies of all the materials we've collected.  She gets started. 
And Vinda, the first attorney, quits, refusing to work on a team with Helen.  Vinda sends another bill, for $15,000, but we are not able to obtain an itemized invoice for this.

 

[Tater]

Aruba became involved after the fact.  Their prosecutor, police chief, corrupt government inserted themselves in this coverup.  Some did it for the island and some did it because of friendships.  Once they went all in there was no turning back.  They needed to protect themselves from the Sloots.  They knew what they were dealing with.  The only way they could was to keep Natalee's body in eyesight.  JMO.

Well San I gotta admit that I always enjoy reading you and respect your wisdom and that is definitly the truth but I also have to say that for the life of me,I can't get my brain to wrap around this train of thought on this issue but I am trying very hard too...I guess I just dont see how suddenly producing Natalees bones would exhonorate anyone.They were either a part of the killing or the cover-up.Guilty as charged so therefore,ridding themselves of it would be the safest way to go for all involved..

[Kermit]

BUCKSHOT

That was well written capitulation of what has occurred. Good job.

[San]

This is not photoshopped either, it is from the ROV and is the bagged evidence showing bones and the denim material thought to be Natalee's skirt.

So are we to believe it was a male.....wearing a denim skirt.....GMAFB

I can tell you IF these were Natalee's remains, they will NEVER be found now. IMO

I disagree.  If these were in fact Natalee's remains Aruba has them.  Not having these remains would give the Sloots total advantage over Aruba.

I felt just like you do at first, seeme.  It took me some time but I've come around to San's point of view.  It makes to me now that they would indeed keep the remains.  It's important to separate the crimes here.  The murder was one thing, the coverup another and they were committed by different parties, imo.  Each needs proof of the other's wrong doing to protect themselves.

JMO

Exactly Lifesong.  You explained it so much better than me.

Except it's been one for all and all for one since day one,no? If there are no remains to be found,better for all involved.Just the way I see it...

That's fine Tater we all see things differently.  I look at things in the way of don't trust the Sloots.  So the best way to protect myself from them would be to have something against them.

Aruba protected a perverted father and his psycho son. 

[spooky112483]

Dang it ya'll!!!
I'm back on page 18 and trying to watch Laker game.
Never gonna get caught up! lol

[Anna]

Anna  - 

I've been thinking of you all day as I've been listening to HLN - they all say "Jinkasaurus".

NG is the worst!  Drives me batty.


.

[MisGivings]

You guys, i really don't think it's fair you all to be bashing Robin Holloway. She has been living a hell on earth as well for the past 5 years & Dave does have 2 daughters with her, the oldest of which looks just like Natalee. i see them daily during the school year when I'm picking my granddaughter up at school & at school functions. I know them both. They are very sweet gentle people. I would imagine that they all wish they had their life back at certain times but that sounds like something that maybe should have been kept between her & Dave. That in no way would take away her love for Natalee. That just sounds like gossip & should be taken as such, but that's JMO FWIW

I appreciate and understand your opinion Monken.

Mine?  I don't think it's fair (and that's as kind as I can be) that Robin Holloway not only tolerates, but befriends those who trash Natalee and Beth, have done so from the start - and continue to do so.

And I'll just stop there.

EXACTLY!!!

What she said.
I am sure Beth would like her life back too.

[BUCKSHOT]

BUCKSHOT

That was well written capitulation of what has occurred. Good job.

Hiya, Kermie. Nice to hear your froggy voice

[Anna]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Which could take 2 years, right?  Am I understanding that part of Peruvian system correctly?

Aruba should love that.  They have an excuse to do what they do best--nothing.

.

[Kermit]

DAVE HOLLOWAYS ATTORNEY VINDA DE SOUSA



Vinda de Sousa is friends with Marlene Purcell
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5807.660




Vinda de Sousa is drinking buddy with Julia Renfro

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6448.msg1050578#msg1050578


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 136:  We're fortunate that one of the men from home here to help us is an attorney, so he personnally interviews several Aruban lawyers and decides Vinda de Sousa will be as good as any.  Her retainer is $5,000 up front.

Page 179:  During this time we add a new attorney, Helen Lejuez, who tells us she is confident that we can access official documents for us.  Her retainer is also $5,000 up front.  We give her copies of all the materials we've collected.  She gets started. 
And Vinda, the first attorney, quits, refusing to work on a team with Helen.  Vinda sends another bill, for $15,000, but we are not able to obtain an itemized invoice for this.



THIS PERSON EMAILED CAPSLOCKWIZARD
it belongs to none other then MARK PURCELL.




HOW CAN YOU TELL THAT?

ANSWER: From the referring URL in the second person information.
They came straight from their email account

[Dihannah1]

Thanks Buckshot for the information!  I agree, he/they were too good to be true.  I just remembered reading him/them, along with other former disinformation posters and when they say "It's too good to be true, then it probably isn't  true".  Yes, I will admit, sometimes I can be a tad naive.....