Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Ono]

http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting

Extremely so ...

[MisGivings]

Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   

Simple theft, eh? For CHRISSSSSSSSSSSSSAKE, the jerk took her car, credit cards, and money. Then he brutally murdered her.

[Ono]

Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

[MisGivings]

van der Sloot remains isolated in the Miguel Castro Castro prison
No prisoner or person outside the prison can access the area where he said the director of INPE

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, confessed murderer of the young student Stephany Flores, spends part of his life in prison rudimentary training with a weight made of plastic bottles filled with water and a broom handle with the shortcomings of the Peruvian prisons.

The Dutchman has been detained since Friday in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in a populous district located east of Lima, where he was assigned a one-man cell of 2 by 3.5 meters, with a bed, a sink and a silo as unique amenities.

The cell is in Van der Sloot Prevention Pavilion, a small area away from other inmates, and opposite direction, as a security measure.

"He told me he feared for his life," said the director of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez, after stating that there is no possibility that bystanders and other inmates access to that area.

He said the EU will remain there as long as they want, and that "if he asks to go to another site with the remainder going to the rest."

ACCOMPANYING OSPINA
The Dutchman's only companion is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, a Colombian hit man accident that killed Myriam Fefer Peruvian entrepreneur, and recently was extradited to Peru. Trujillo agrees with Van der Sloot the weight scale is manufactured with a broom handle and plastic bottles.

"They are together, adjacent their cells, they share the TV you have Trujillo. He (Van der Sloot) is watching TV there, "in the cell of Colombia, Rodriguez said.

Van der Sloot faces a sentence of between 15 and 35 years in prison on charges of simple murder and theft, for the murder of Stephany Flores in the hotel room where he was staying on Sunday 30 May.

Next Monday will be questioned by Judge Carlos Morales, head of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, in the same prison in a private care.

Rodriguez noted that the Dutchman has not received any phone calls from their family, and has said he does not want to be visited by anyone, but last Tuesday was visited by an envoy of the consul of the Netherlands.

The evangelical pastor Héctor Allende, a former bank robber who served prison inmates and now preaches, says that in prison there curiosity by the presence of Van der Sloot for being a new procedure. But consider that in no danger of the other inmates to cause harm.

"When it comes to killing an adult with indifference, not so much value and are not judged by it (to kill), only if you have killed a child," he said.

CASTRO CASTRO
The prison, with a capacity for 1,200 inmates but which is home to 1594, consists of 12 buildings of three stories each, and prisoners are separated according to the crime they have committed, terrorism, drug trafficking, kidnapping, murder, robbery , and others.

Currently there are about 300 prisoners for terrorism, and about 80 foreign inmates, most Colombians and Mexicans convicted of drug trafficking, according to Ricardo La Serna, director of the Episcopal Commission for Social Action, a Catholic NGO that defends human rights of inmates.

However, the last criminal charge of a slaughter of prisoners in 1992, following a military operation to quell a mutiny of terrorist prisoners who were opposed to being transferred to another prison, the government of then President Alberto Fujimori.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/497579/joran-van-der-sloot-permanece-aislado-penal-miguel-castro-castro?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Actually, I hope he gets the same brutal, agonizing beating he gave to Stephany. I want this a$$wipe to feel something before he dies.

[AZSunny]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

[klaasend]

Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

[MisGivings]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed but I have been wondering if Stephany's neck was broken after she was dead ?
Here is why: In Joran's sick mind he may have tried to fold her dead body into that duffel bag breaking her neck in the process due to frustration
This would also explain why her clothes were removed
Stephany was not as thin as Natalee so he may have just given up on the suitcase idea and decided to run

Has it ever been determined just how much cash he stole from her ?
Western Union transactions should be checked - I think that he called Anita - to wire her some cash...Just In Case (it would be so great if that were true and exposed)

Also I think when they say he had not paid for his room they were referring to the 2-3 days he was on the run - If you notice the clerk holds the room key as Joran had to pick it up when he walked in with Stephany - No pay - No Key

I'm waiting to hear all the evidence and forensics.  Very possible he broke her neck in an attempt to hide her body somehow. 

I really think he stomped her to death.

[klaasend]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

[MisGivings]

Oh dear, let me quickly point out that I was referring to the "persecution" translation.

I saw Geraldo's show. I think I remember Kitty saying that she thought Anita wanted to wait until the media frenzy dies down before she goes.

He won't live that long. He truly is a dead man walking. Even Vegas won't touch that bet.

[Anna]

Is this guy - Les Levine - Anita's private investigator?

Let me guess. The answer to Stephany's murder lies in Mountain Brook.

Yawn.

MsMarple. . .now that's funny!  Yes, there are a lot of people I would like to ask if this is what they are still thinking.  Blame anybody but Joran, even kids who just happened to be on the trip with his victim.  That always made me see red the way some slugs hounded those kids.


.

[Jo-An]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

[MisGivings]

Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   

Hopefully, the Judge will order that the laptop be analyzed tomorrow.
The first day of Spring, and another day of Hell for Joran.

DUH, I meant summer.

[klaasend]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

According to this article ARUBA
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

[Anna]

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

Klaas, are you sure?  I thought she said The NL.  And weren't some addicts sent to Curacao for treatment from Aruba recently?

But I was thinking Anita wanted Joran back in The NL far away from the FBI.  Not sure about that, however.

.

[Buckeye]

He fled to Peru to avoid getting arrested by the FBI and probably because he came up with funds to support his gambling in the tournament..  He didn't flee from the mental hospital.  He could just so no to commitment.  It couldn't have been an emergency commitment (against his will) because there would be no appointment.  No reason to flee because of that.

He went along with anything Anita said to feed into her thoughts of helping the poor, traumatized boy.  He knew that was her Achilles heel.  He played/manipulated her.

If his family was so normal and his father was not connected, how in the world does he get the attention of the Netherlands?  I've never heard about other Dutch (really Aruban) prisoners with so much support.

[cecilita]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

Hello Monkeys,
Anita is only trying to cover up the monters flee to Peru because he was trying to scape from the FBI. At this point I think that Natalee's mom should be in Peru, I know it is difficult for her but the media is playing a very important roll in this case and not too many people know the true.

[Ono]

Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

Yes-I can too;  I also think it reasonble to consider those rocks as a potential crimescene, but for now, I still think they spent way too much time out there, making a big production out of it ... something a little fishy about that.   When I weigh that against the fact that the Sloot house was such a "do-not-enter"  fortress-it still makes me think something happened there, and could have been the crimescene also.  Even Beth 'felt' Natalee had been there.

The problem is-lying seems to be quite socially acceptable on Aruba, so much so, that just about anything goes & the truth is treated as a 'hot potato' being tossed from one suspect to another.  The game on Aruba is do whatever you want-just don't get caught.

It's no wonder Joran lies-that's the way of life he has grown up with and as far as his being crazy, I think he's spoiled rotten and has always been indulged, - in that bad behaviour is always excused and temper tantrums rationalized away by his ever-loving enabling Mums& Daddums.  It's the other person's fault, don'cha know?    Even when he made a public spectacle out of himself by tossing wine in de Vries' face on TV-he was not chastized for it nor did any apology pass his or their lips I don't think.

[Jo-An]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

According to this article ARUBA
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

Weird.
I have the original newspaper here in my hands and it says nothing about a facility in Aruba.
Nor does it mention anything about `where the family lives`.

Strange...

[cecilita]

He fled to Peru to avoid getting arrested by the FBI and probably because he came up with funds to support his gambling in the tournament..  He didn't flee from the mental hospital.  He could just so no to commitment.  It couldn't have been an emergency commitment (against his will) because there would be no appointment.  No reason to flee because of that.

He went along with anything Anita said to feed into her thoughts of helping the poor, traumatized boy.  He knew that was her Achilles heel.  He played/manipulated her.

If his family was so normal and his father was not connected, how in the world does he get the attention of the Netherlands?  I've never heard about other Dutch (really Aruban) prisoners with so much support.

Did Anita send money to the monster? or she knew the FBI will track her and for that reason she didnt send money.

[Anna]

Well, yet another conflict--location of alleged mental facility for Joran.

Since Anita is probably lying about it in the first place, maybe she's the one who can't keep her story straight.  But I suspect it's more bad reporting or translation.