Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[cece]

http://searchwarp.com/swa595620-Joran-Van-Der-Sloots-Soul-Murders-Done-In-Cold-Blood.htm

     Joran van der Sloot's Soul :Murders Done In Cold Blood

Murder is usually a crime of passion, that is, at a murder scene, police usually suspect a family member, a lover or a spouse as a likely perpetrator first before any crime scene critical analysis comes in to play.
 
Murderers who kill in 'cold blood', very often do not know their victims beforehand, kill randomly without a tinge of regret or guilt.
Unlike a murder of passion, they do not plan a pre dug grave or dismember the corpse.
They may make no attempt to hide the bodies of their victims.
They may stop on a deserted road and open the hood of their car to flag down a helpful motorist and kill them with a gun.
They may lure a child into a car by asking them to help them find their lost puppy or by offering them a kitten and stab them to death.
They may stop at a truck stop to pick up a prostitute and strangle her afterwards leaving her body on the side of the road.
They are always careful to use different methods of murder so as to confuse police efforts to establish an M.O. or patterns as they travel from state to state.
 
A big, friendly, helpful smile, or a helpful assist from a total stranger is the last thing you'll ever see and you'll never see it coming.
These people are called serial killer psychopaths .
Joran van der Sloot is such a psychopath.

cont.

[cece]

Google translation.

Joran van der Sloot will not speak
Dutchman's lawyer says that will keep silent in the hearing tomorrow. The inmate's mother said that her son "is traumatized."

Netherlands seek to prolong the judicial process. (USI)
In silence. This will keep the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation that the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima held tomorrow for the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21).

The foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, said his client will not say a word until accepted for habeas corpus presented to the judiciary to override the police investigation. With this measure, HH Van der Sloot seeks to return to testify to the police with the presence of a prosecutor, a translator and self-defense.

Standby counsel argued before the judicial authorities that the Dutchman killed Stephany Flores pushed by a "violent emotion" and not theft. In this way, the alien may receive a lesser sentence to 15 years in prison.

The judicial examination has been scheduled for 10:00 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where the Dutchman has been detained since 11 June.

LAWYERS COME. On the other hand, HH reported that within 15 days, arrive in the country foreign lawyers of Van der Sloot.

It was learned that among them would be Joseph Tacopina, who also defended the singer Michael Jackson when he was accused of sexual assault against minors. Tacopina defended Van der Sloot when he was tried for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl in 2005.

"Not a monster." Meanwhile, Dutchman's mother, Anita van der Sloot, defended the innocence of his son in a letter written to the news network ABC. In the letter, the mother said that Joran "is not the monster that you would like (the media). " In addition, said his son is "traumatized, depressed and has an addiction."

The foreign parent imprisoned in Peru insisted that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which it is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him." The Dutchman's lawyer denied that the mother or relatives of his client are arriving in the capital in the coming days.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/497848/joran-van-der-sloot-no-hablara?utm_source=PeruNewsFeed.com&utm_medium=twitter

cece, Jo Ann posted this on page 52. I think this is the latest.

Thank you

[canoworms]

Good morning everyone
Apparently Anita did not get the answers she wanted from the Queen, (royal weddings and all to attend to, no time for meetings with expatriated exiles), so someone must have told Anita to fall back on any devices she can muster ( insanity plea, treatment in a facility while incarcerated ) until the next Fiesta del Aruba takes her mind off of all the negative attention.
the negative attention is what I think hurts her the most- Paul is gone, no career or reputation to protect there. She could have been the Bingo queen, Patroness of the Arts, Extrordinaire, getting close to retirement, and now this. Joran fooks up her plans, again. Where is the sympathy for the Holloways? I see none.
 
Selena

[canoworms]

Thanks Jo ANN!! she has the hard copies as our roving reporter in the NL:)

[San]

Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

[wreck]

Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Winner!!!!!

[canoworms]

After his arrest in the Holloway case, van der Sloot should've gotten psychiatric help, his mother said.

So let me guess why he didn't.

[San]

LOL

[Buckeye]

Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

Someone should let them know that Anita did quite a long interview with LiBelle, in June of 2007.  "Years" of not speaking out, is a bit of a stretch.  She blamed Natalee and her family for their family situation.

[canoworms]

Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Winner!!!!!

Nickname~ Poopsie

[San]

From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.

[canoworms]

what she really means is it's sad that she lost her son, she considers everyone else " collateral damage".
No empathy. None.

[Anna]

From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.

This makes me as angry as anything this hag says.  She has not lost her son because of the actions of Stephany Flores.  The FLores family has lost their daughter because of what Joran did.  It's HIS fault!

That makes all the difference.  Anita is the most self-centered person I can think of to see things in the perspective that her loss is anything compared to theirs.  Their child was beaten to death, died a horrible death at the hands of her son Joran.

Joran is prancing around in Castro Castro wearing his orange shirt and trying to decide what new lies to tell.  Joran killed Natalee and refused to tell what he did with her.  She knows where Joran is.  He's ALIVE.

Oh, this is going to give me another headache. . . .

[canoworms]

passes Excedrin Extra strength to Anna.

[texasmom]

Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

Someone should let them know that Anita did quite a long interview with LiBelle, in June of 2007.  "Years" of not speaking out, is a bit of a stretch.  She blamed Natalee and her family for their family situation.

Remember this one too!  I'm sure it's here somewhere too, we talked about it extensively but I couldn't find it.

GBMW posted at RU

Interview Anita van der Sloot in Red / September 2008

Interview with Anita van der Sloot; published in the magazine Red / September 2008

Text by Renee Gielen

Photo by Julia Renfro (scanned by Black-Tulip; thanks!)

On May, 30 2005 the 18 year old Natalee Holloway disappeared on Aruba. Joran van der Sloot is still considered a suspect. His mother Anita has recently tried to close this disruptive period in her life with an exposition.




Anita, how did the affair of Holloway change your life?

‘From a professor who is intensely involved with students and from a mother who is intensely involved with her children, you’re suddenly the mother of a boy who is a suspect in a case concerning the disappearance of a girl. Who is a suspect of kidnapping, of rape, murder. This has a huge impact. It has hurt me in the depth of my soul. I’ve been especially angry with the approach of the media and how the reports were all one sided. Not being able to function as a regular family, the lies that have been spread about us. That has caused the most hurt, combined with Jorans’ behaviour. I was angry with him for lying. You see very often people drift apart when something awful happens in their lives, but Paul & I only became closer. We were already strong as a family, did a lot of things together, but we only came out stronger. We talk a lot with the children, express emotions much quicker.’

How is your relationship with Joran? Has it changed since May 2005?

Anita hesitates for a moment, and says then: 'Not really. I’m his mother and he is my son. Now and then I feel so much love for him, and now and then I want to kick his behind. Like: hey kid, why do you say that, and why do you do that? People see Joran like he was portrayed in the media. Of course, everyone gets a kick out of the negative things that are extricated. But I see how he kisses his grandmother and holds her hand for half an hour and runs his fingers through her hair. I see the Joran who makes me a cup of coffee, who comes to check in with me regularly when I’m sick: how are you, mum? Those are two different Jorans.

To me Joran is more important as a son, grandson and brother than as the Joran that is portrayed in the media. Joran was also just a regular 17 year old who went to school, got good grades, had nice girlfriends who came over, whose parents I knew, had nice friends, went out like any other 17 year old. Occasionally he did things that made you go: is that really necessary? But no more than other kids his age.

What the media has done with that is just bizarre. They’ve created some kind of monster. It’s got nothing to do with reality. And that has only gotten worse, because this case attracts really weird people. When this case is solved they will leave him alone probably, but he will always remain that kid ‘who was involved with’, the kid who lied, that will continue to haunt him for the rest of his live. And I’m also ‘the mother of’. I’m not the one who’s teaching, not the artist, no, I’m ‘the mother of’.’

Has there been a moment where you doubted Joran?

‘I’ve never thought Joran was a rapist or a murderer. But I have thought for a moment that possibly an accident might have happened, that he might have been afraid to tell? I know he lied because he was afraid he wouldn’t have a graduation party. That he didn’t want his girlfriend to know he went out that night. But if he really had something on his bad record; he would have told me, that kind of trust was there.’

How was it to literally deal with world press?

‘I thought it was bizarre. People are making tent camps around your walls all of a sudden. American media are very bold. We’ve tried to continue our lives as best as possible. I thought it was unpleasant for the children and for their friends when they came over to play. At a certain point we sent our children on a holiday, to friends, to release them from the forceful media.

We really wanted to show ourselves. We’ve always kept the door open for people that had good intentions, we had & have nothing to hide, and then all those stories that start their own life….you can’t stop that.

In the beginning, when that mother (of Natalee Holloway, ed) came here with a large group of friends, we were addressed with quite some aggression. Her behaviour, the conduct of that group… We wanted to talk to those parents, eventually we did. We’ve invited them later on, but we never got a reply. A year ago we wanted to talk to the mother when she was here. She just didn’t want to.’

How did you manage?

‘We just went on with our lives. It happened during summer break, which was nice in a way because I had more time to myself because of that. When the schools started again in August, I just went back to work and the kids went back to school. Paul moved on quickly as well. Working as a teacher is important, I can put a lot of energy in that. And we do our regular things. I do my groceries, I work in the garden, clean my house. Because I teach fulltime, I don’t have a lot of time to sculpture, but this whole mess gave me a lot of sleepless nights. And it still does. Every person would be afraid and tense in these kind of situations. You lose the grip on your life. You’re life is out there, put under a magnifying glass. Nobody can understand what’s it’s like to live in such a situation. Being creative gave me a way to express the negative emotions I felt. I started with a book, some kind of sketching book, in which I work daily. It helped to draw, to write, to paint. I love the combination of those disciplines, making collages, painting, writing… And this exhibition is also a reflection of that process. Here you see about 50 to 60 % of what I’ve made in the last two years. I think every person reaches out to something that gives them some kind of peace. To me that peace came from painting and working with collages. The anger ebbed away, the hurt diminished a bit, so it did help. But if this hadn’t happened this would have been a completely different exhibition. In the exhibition I’m working on right now I want to focus on the authentic Aruban culture. I notice that Aruba is ‘Americanising’. I find that’s such a shame. I’m going to do something with that. I’ve had that plan before, this came kind of in between.’

What I notice in all of your paintings are religious symbols, praying hands, crosses…

‘They are the universal symbols of faith, hope and having trust. I felt that very clearly the last 3 years. That you’re looking for symbols and what they stand for. I did that through painting and combined those symbols. It wasn’t only the painting that gave me some peace. We have let go. Joran has to live his own life. He has to find his own path in what has happened. Of course you offer help as parents, but at a certain point you say: he’s almost 21, he has to go on. We need to go on. You kind of distance yourself. You take a step back. Sometimes it’s like I’m watching a movie. Ok, this has happened to us, but I don’t want a big part in it anymore. Because of that I find this interview very difficult as well. But I do want to do it, to close things, just like with this exhibition.

With that I also feel I’ve closed a heavy 3 years. I don’t know what might lie ahead for us in the future, but I do know I’ll be able to deal with it better. Without wanting to be arrogant, I do have the idea that I’m rising above certain situations and television programmes.’

Looking back, what would you have done differently?

‘I think we would have approached someone who could have helped us concerning the media. At a certain point we made the decision to do some interviews. Only a few, a deliberate choice. Looking back, I wouldn’t have worked with the American media. Talking in another language gives you limitations, you notice that the essence of words can change.’

Do you ever think about the fact that Joran might be arrested again for involvement in this case?

‘Yes, I do think about that. Of course Joran was arrested again this last winter, in the end it turned out to be for no reason at all. I haven’t seen the show itself, but I did see everything, every tape, and then it does come across quite differently. Not less bad, but it did become clear what De Vries & Van der Eem have done to provoke Joran into making statements. If you see every tape with hours of conversations and boasting of especially Van der Eem, it becomes quite clear what they tried to do. It’s not about the truth, it’s about ratings and a lot of money. Every recording is taking out of its context, there has been cutted & pasted. What do you mean: ‘shock damage’? (Anita is referring to the fact that the mother of Natalee Holloway wanted to sue Joran for ‘shock damage’, but no subpoena in this process has been received yet. RG). It has shocked me severely that these kind of things happen in the Netherlands and to a certain point is approved by justice. But what can I do? There are forces & powers going on that are stronger than we could ever be, we’ll have to learn to live with that. It’s about an American girl that disappeared on Aruba, an island that is mainly depended on American tourism, with a Dutch suspect. It’s about economical & political interests. The stepfather of the girl has threatened from the beginning that his fingers reach to the White House. The mother has said she will destroy our family life. This case must be solved of course, we all want that. I still hope that the group of people that is still working on the case will look further, to keep options open that other people might be involved in this, that they will look in America. Around 100 students are walking around there of which 15 of them knew that girl and were more involved, plus the so called ‘chaperones’ who escorted the kids during their trip, I know & hear very little about them. I keep finding that a bizarre story. I would really like that to be explored in depth.’

How do you see your relationship with Joran in the future?

‘Joran has to finish his school. If he doesn’t do that, he’ll have to deal with me and his father. He was suppose to go to college in America in 2005. He had a scholarship for an American university and was suppose to play soccer & tennis for that university, he was really looking forward to that. (silence) And of course, that has all been swept away because of all this. That still hurts, I recently talked to him about it. But he still has a chance to finish a study. And he’s smart enough to study as well. He's clever, it’s up to him to use that intelligence. Other than that, there isn’t much more you can do as a parent than giving good advice & counsel. That’s it, you can’t hold his hand any longer. You can’t lock him up. (voice is getting lower and lower) I wouldn’t want that either. He’s been locked long enough. He knows this is one of his last chances. And I do blame the people that keep lingering about the case. It’s almost impossible for him to move on, to build a future. I think they need to let go of such a kid at a certain time. I hope he’ll find his peace in about 5 or 10 years. That he can live a reasonable normal life. I never would have thought that my life would be like this 3 years ago, but there is more peace now and I hope we will be able to persevere that. And furthermore the people that are involved in this case should do their own thing. I don’t have any influence on that. None.’

[littletxlady]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7001260/__Joran_houdt_mond_bij_rechter__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Google translation>

Joran takes on right foot LIMA- Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

[San]

what she really means is it's sad that she lost her son, she considers everyone else " collateral damage".
No empathy. None.

Right.

[San]

From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.

This makes me as angry as anything this hag says.  She has not lost her son because of the actions of Stephany Flores.  The FLores family has lost their daughter because of what Joran did.  It's HIS fault!

That makes all the difference.  Anita is the most self-centered person I can think of to see things in the perspective that her loss is anything compared to theirs.  Their child was beaten to death, died a horrible death at the hands of her son Joran.

Joran is prancing around in Castro Castro wearing his orange shirt and trying to decide what new lies to tell.  Joran killed Natalee and refused to tell what he did with her.  She knows where Joran is.  He's ALIVE.

Oh, this is going to give me another headache. . . .

I agree Anna.

This reminds me of when you are telling a story to someone and that person stops you and says well if you think that's bad I have one better for you.

It's all about Anita.

[canoworms]

Thanks Texasmom,

"That’s it, you can’t hold his hand any longer. You can’t lock him up. (voice is getting lower and lower) I wouldn’t want that either. He’s been locked long enough. He knows this is one of his last chances. And I do blame the people that keep lingering about the case."

You could have locked him up and saved yourself a lot of grief, not to mention the Flores' the agony of losing their only daughter at the hands of your own uncontrollable offspring. Keep blaming other people Anita, while you point the finger at other people to explain away 17 years of your parental failures. count how many fingers will be pointing back at you.

[San]

When Anita decides to make her grand entrance to Peru to visit her son and show support that is when Beth Twitty should visit Peru and show her support to the Flores family.

Can you see Anita's face if this happens.