Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Buckeye]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

Does he need to be classed as a fulltime student to be covered by her insurance?  or is this his HMO  Aruban insurance  or is he still "addressed" in the Netherlands?

Her insurance won´t cover his costs because he´s over 18. He must have a health insurance policy of his own.
Anita mentioned the insurance company, Menzis, that´s a Dutch company. He still has a Dutch passport so he can use Dutch health insurance.

Thank you.

[Jo-An]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.

Where did she say that?

[Puzzler]

I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

I believe he goes into and unbelievable rage (and "maybe" forget a few details during that extreme rage state).  However, he does remember a lot of the details and he does know right from wrong, which (under U.S. law) does not make him "insane" under the rule of law.

All those deep bruises on Stephany's legs had to have come from kicking her, a fury of kicking because we read that deep bruises were all over her legs.  He said he threw her to the floor.  He didn't say (or it wasn't released) that he kicked her while she was down.  That's what he did.  In his extreme fury, he might have forgotten that detail.  But he does admit to the important one - he suffocated her until she stopped breathing.

On NG show, the first time Stephany's brother was on the show, he told us about the eye and right after that he said in a low voice, while shaking his head: "that neck".  At that moment, I thought that the neck was in really bad shape (yes, it was broken) BUT it made me think that Joran had stomped on her neck (like he did on her legs).

I think Anita has spent many days, with many people, trying to decide how to handle this matter.  I believe she doesn't have the money to spend (or throw away) on Joran, so she's probably trying to go through the NLs to obtain any help that way.  Also, someone smart has told her she'd better own up to what Joran has done this time.  My gosh, she even admits that her two other boys have told her that Joran is dragging her down.  If true, that makes those young boys smarter than Anita.  Also, I think she is probably genuinely grieving for the loss of her husband and hasn't even had enough time to process that loss.  It's like Joran is sucking the life out of everything!

Anita saying that Joran threw himself over Paulus' casket and cried.  If so, there again Joran's guilt is showing that he knows right from wrong.  I do tend to think that the death of Paulus affected Joran greatly...because...it means that Joran's safety-net is forever gone!

Sadly, I also think that what Joran did to Stephany reflects on what he most likely did with Natalee...or at least very similar actions.

 

[Agraria]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.

Where did she say that?

looking now...

[Ono]

I've been thinking about the extortion part of this case, and Joran's swift departure from Aruba 3 days after the $15,000 electronic transfer to a Netherlands bank account.
IMO someone gave Joran the heads up the FBI was going to have him arrested. I would think the FBI also would be keeping tabs on the account the money was deposited to. What I'm curious about is was Joran able to withdraw that $15,000 before he fled from Aruba. He might have also been told not to try to withdraw the funds as the FBI could then track him. Joran received $10,000 in cash from JQK on the 10th of May, but maybe that was all he had, and he no doubt went thru that within 2 weeks.
I just think it gives him more of a motive for robbery. It will be interested to see (computer forensics) if Anita was communicating with him soon after he left Aruba. Possibly guiding him on where he should go etc.
Possibly sending him funds if she knew he couldn't touch the account with the extortion funds.

Does anyone have a link to the article with statements from the taxi drivers?
I recall one of them talking about Joran being on Twitter all the time while driving to Chile. Also he said Joran kept telling them about Twitter rumors Joran was found dead (committed suicide). Did the taxi drivers say Joran started that rumor? The translations are so often incorrect, but wouldn't that be crazy if it was Joran that started that rumor.......I would like to get a better translation if anyone has a link to articles about taxi drivers statements, if anyone has one. TIA

Wouldn't it be interesting if Anita was also able to use that Netherlands' [ extortion money ] account...?????

[Anna]

Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.

[Ono]

LMAO!

I was looking for our discussion of the Red magazine article and found this...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.msg409451#msg409451

HT San

Anita is no lady ...

[Agraria]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.

Where did she say that?

looking now...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia

[Anna]

Ono, I am so hoping that Anita is some how implicated in all this extortion charge.  Or that she sent money to Joran that aided his flight to avoid arrest.  I don't think Interpol is going to share the sentiment that evidently Dutch law does that it is OK for members of immediate family to lie to LE.

Wouldn't it just be marvelous if there are records of Joran receiving money from her somewhere along his path fleeing LE and after it was known he was eluding arrest!

Now that would absolutely make my day and if the Peruvians are going after even the taxi drivers, I think they would anybody who bankrolled Joran's attempt to elude.

.

[Blonde]

Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hahahahah not while I'm drinking  Ice coffee

[Jo-An]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.

Where did she say that?

looking now...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia

Or maybe this quote by Anna?

Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.

[Ono]

Ono, I am so hoping that Anita is some how implicated in all this extortion charge.  Or that she sent money to Joran that aided his flight to avoid arrest.  I don't think Interpol is going to share the sentiment that evidently Dutch law does that it is OK for members of immediate family to lie to LE.

Wouldn't it just be marvelous if there are records of Joran receiving money from her somewhere along his path fleeing LE and after it was known he was eluding arrest!

Now that would absolutely make my day and if the Peruvians are going after even the taxi drivers, I think they would anybody who bankrolled Joran's attempt to elude.

.

Make my day too!!;  The Peruvians seem to be wonderfully thorough-"ain't it grand"!?

[Anna]

According to dugo, at RU, there is no right to remain silent, in the Peru consitution. (He also said lying carries an obstruction charge):

     
      

charlierat wrote:

I repeat Paprikash's question. Where did you see this? I mean the part about Joran cannot remain silent. I did not know that Peru did not recognize the right against self-incrimination.

dugo PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 pm

It is not about where do you see it, it is about: you do not see it in their constitution.

http://www.parliament.go.th/parcy/sapa_db/cons_doc/constitutions/data/Peru/peru.pdf

Yuk, yuk, yuk!  I don't suppose they can force Joran to speak but I do remember reading that it was mandatory that he appear before the judge and if he refuses to speak, it can be held against him.  In other words, the judge can then assume the worst for why Joran doesn't answer him.

But I also wonder about his PERUVIAN attorney telling Joran not to answer.  He should know the laws in Peru and what is allowed and what is not. 

I am pretty sure lying to the judge would be considered obstruction in most countries.  Aruba being one of the few exceptions.  In this country you can plead the Fifth Amendment--right not to incriminate yourself.  But of coures that implies that you are guilty or you wouldn't fear self-incrimination.

Joran may well speak against the advice of his attorney thinking he can convince the judge it was an act of passion.  I would like to see the expression on the face of the judge as Joran explains how he finds it perfectly reasonable to kill somebody for being on his laptop.

[Agraria]

I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.

I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.

Where did she say that?

looking now...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia

Or maybe this quote by Anna?

Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.

True... I remember that.  But I also read Terror Jaap's weblog after he was recently raided by the Netherlands (as per the US Justice System.) He talks about his contract with Joran to serve 2 years in the Netherlands and come out a millionaire at 23. They were, of course, planning to sell all the pics from his turning himself in, etc..licensing it all.

[Anna]

I wonder if Jaap understands that in this country it is illegal for a criminal to profit from his crime and one can't sell anything of that nature.

So I wonder to whom they thought they would sell things for such profits.

[Ono]

~Texasmom;  Thanks for posting that article [ on page 55 ] from an interview with Anita in "Red"/September 2008 issue-I had never seen that.   What a self-centered & shallow woman! Ugh!!

[Buckeye]

I wonder if Anita is so set on Joran being innocent in Natalee's case because they still have the big Aruban compensation case pending.

Don't the Aruban attorneys also get their pay from compensation from the courts?

[Jo-An]

Jaap said that everything he did, was to `trick` Joran into telling the truth about Natalee.
But... everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually lots of grains of salt!

Part of his weblog:

I've just given my statement and told police some of the offenses that Joran has committed over the past two years. They were extremely shocked. I also told them the whole story about the state of affairs with Aruba and Joran's crime syndicate. Also about that they were heavily into conclave.

They now wanted to know about Peru.

The deal was that the USB stick I had hidden (intruders) with all the dates of the last two years I would return if my backup (fire) should hold in the context of free journalism. So I have everything! Whoopee!

Realize that I always have said to you that I RTL (and earlier also by John de Mol and Talpa) is always the bogeyman was good cop bad cop in order to play. I have everything stored systematically. Also all emails and msn logs. I played my game as in DGK. I have told the police. I was an actor in DGK that I have learned to manipulate and 15 months that I've been in practice for Joran with beautiful stories of millions to confess.

[texasmom]

~Texasmom;  Thanks for posting that article [ on page 55 ] from an interview with Anita in "Red"/September 2008 issue-I had never seen that.   What a self-centered & shallow woman! Ugh!!

YW Ono.  And think about this...if I have the timing right...that was about the time Joran was in Thailand making his money selling women.  Some may recall that Julia Renfro said that it was all part of a "school project" Joran was working on.  Typical...(rolling eyes)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449294,00.html

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/thailand_wants_transcript_of_v.php

It's really sickening that Joran was never held accountable for those activities either.

[NewfieMonkey]

Monster had no plans (nor plans made for him to check into psych) ... just came in as a handy story for Anita.  ~ My son was driven to this ... blah blah ... it was Beth that drove him to it ... blah blah ... I'd realized recently (TA DA - LIKE MAGIC!) that he had mental issues ... blah blah ... right up until then ... blah blah ... I found him a loving son ... a fine sporter .. blah blah.

What I do find fab is - Anita isn't only trying to get the Monster an easier time in prison ...

she's waffling her bets

In case that doesn't work out - she's trying to make out that HIS MENTAL FUCKUPEDNESS is a new issue ... laughable if Natalee weren't dead and her body not in possession of her parents and family.  His mental issues have been apparent to EVERYONE for a long time MOMMY DEAREST!  If you didn't see them - you are the IGNORANT COW I've thought you to be.

Burn in HELL Joran ... and take mommy with you!