Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Anna]

Joran has not been arrested for extortion.  He is under arrest for the murder of stephany Flores.

What the FBI may or may not have done with regard to the extortion has nothing to do with Joran's pending murder case.

Feeble distraction at best.

[Edward]

It is all being brought into the mix Anna to confuse the simple fact as you mentioned.
This is murder.. They have the body and plenty of evidence.
Others are coming out of the woodwork to help Joran. They are doing that by planting massive amounts of information./.some true and some not. All of it for the purpose of negotiation over vast amounts of time.
Again.
Let us see if Peru can hold the line.

jmho

[Anna]

Well, if it's just Joran's defense attorney saying all these things, that's totally different!

They say anything!

[Kat_Gram]

I might need to be medicated after I watch JVM.
I am getting very angry at this stupidness with Joran.
Something seems so familiar about this, doesn't it. The lies his family tells.
Anita said she hadn't seen Joran for quite a while. Then, we find out he was living in her house. Things seemed to get better for him. He was in the casinos every night with his new friend, John Ludwig, didn't seem crazy to John or anyone else. A gambling addiction is not grounds to beat a girl to a unrecognizable pulp in any country. He wasn't deemed mentally ill in May, the story was a voluntary admission if that is even true.
..........
His enablers and story tellers are at it again. He wasn't tortured or beaten and in fact by the standards in Peru, he is being treated quite well in his little cell.  Oh well, guess it worked once for them, the B*(&&^%s, try it again. I feel bloodthirsty and maybe they should just open the door and say GO !  Get out of Peru if you can.

[the big hammer]

MURDER, not "Extortion"

There is no doubt there is a dead girl.  And there is no doubt she was murdered.  So the NL media can surmise from half a world away as to the circumstances leading up the murder of the dead girl in Peru.  Perhaps she herself "tricked" the goon into murdering her.

The extortion charge has been made by US authorities.  Once charged, it will be difficult to make that charge go away.  Extortion, in this case and as described, is a difficult standard to reach.  typically, extortion requires the threat of "harm" in order to for the demanded payments to be exacted.  It's quite possible that the threat of witholding information as to the location of Natalee rose to that level: "psychological harm."  And it was evidently he who initiated the plot by first calling and offering, therefore he presents the consciousness of his deviant in-thought scheme and actions.  It was he hoped to "entrap" the Holloway-Twitty family in a web of pain from which he could profit.

Is there a Telegraff reporter who knows more than the obvious here?

.

[JusticeDawg]

I see the prcedures as lame. The Peruvian officials have already addressed this issue and stated that the peruvian law was followed and that the proper representation was afforded to the killar.

I do not believe that we need to waste many brain cells thinking that this will get him anywhere. All they have to do is show the killar the video over the doorway of his hotel room to show that NOONE entered the room before, during or after time when Stephany was there.

That is all they need to prove that he was the murderer and he is the one that must answer to the murder charge.

[Anna]

Joran's pending murder trial and the extortion charges are two separate issues brought by two separate countires.

One has nothing to do with the other aside from the fact that the murder trial and sentence will be completed before the extortion charges are considered.

It's irrelevant whether anybody "lured" goon to do anything.  He is still ultimately responsible for his murdering actions.

But we all  know defense attorneys are FOS and POS and will say literally anything.

That said, this whole crap of Joran and his "rights" is enough to make the average person want to barf.  Aruba has a terrible human rights record itself and the Dutch has prisoners burn to death at a prison at their airport while no one did a damned things to save them so neither has the right to worry so much about other countries and human rights especially given their colonial history of abuse for centuries.

[Tamikosmom]

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch?  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge?  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Janet

Janet:  

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.

I hear ya but ... I find the FBI's appeasement of those who have prevented justice from prevailing for five long years is such a betrayal to the memory of an American citizen.

Logic dictates that cooperation with the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has had an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from the getgo ... is not about to have a positive outcome.

Janet

+++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184:  Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.


Fixed error as requested by Janet. = San

[Ono]

I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Also RITA COSBY will be on the Dana Pretzer show at 9pm ET tonight!  There will be others as well but I don't have the entire lineup yet!

Excellent!

[Blonde]

Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez (21) by the following considerations:
1. by his confession
2. by the dead information
3. by the Certificate of Recognition
4. by the Parking registry of the victim’s vehicle at the Casino “Atlantic City”
5. by the results of the Criminalistic information (Biologic, fingerprinting and others)
 6. by the testimony of the drivers
 7. by the recovery of the stuff and clothes of the foreign citizen in possession of the drivers
8. by the removal of money, bank account cards and vehicle of the victim Peru won't have that problem,9.
 PLUS they have a ton of evidence and incriminating surveillance tapes.
10.Blood Patterns at a Crime Scene Have Become a Familiar Element ...

[Ono]

Joran has not been arrested for extortion.  He is under arrest for the murder of stephany Flores.

What the FBI may or may not have done with regard to the extortion has nothing to do with Joran's pending murder case.

Feeble distraction at best.

Exactly!

[Tamikosmom]

MY LAST POST

agenda to Joran s/b agenda to protect Joran

[Anna]

HLN covering it now.

Jinkasaurus says nothing was in the transcript about extradition to anywhere and everything was legit as far as can be determined.

Maybe Joran is trying to play delusional with this?

He fled and even dyed his nasty hair to match Anita's.  Proof he knew what he did was wrong so his mental condition is now irrelevant.

I am beginning to think Joran's attorney is as wacko as Joran.

.

[Anna]

"Oh, man!  I hate when I'm tricked into confessing murder!"  Joke on HLN.  Pretty funny, too.

[seemeatthebeach]

I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Thanks Klaas........I just hope JVM isn't in one of her screeching modes!

[numbersgirl]

Hi Monkeys...this is my first time posting in Natalee's thread and I wanted to share the thoughts I've been having for several days.

IMO, Stephany's family MUST believe their precious daughter did not die in vain.  It's the only thing that is getting them through their days.
To that end, IMO, Mr. Flores will make sure that nobody will besmirch her memory or her good name.  He will not allow Aruba, Anita, media and most of all Joran, to make a mockery of his daughter or his country.  IMO, he's on a mission to return Natalee to her parents as that's the only way he can justify his loss.  I thank God this man seems to have the influence and the wherewithal to make it happen.  I have great faith that Joran's and Anita's actions will only fuel that fire that surely burns within Mr. Flores.

[Mon Quixote]

Things were crazy busy at the home front this weekend and I haven't had time to check in until now.  I hope all monkeys are well as you and your tireless efforts are never far from my thoughts.  As always, thanks for all you do.

That said, here are a few thoughts I had as I was catching up:

I don't know that anyone could believe that JVDS was lured to Peru as much as they could believe that he ran.  He never seemed to run to anything as much as he seemed to run away - IMHO. 

Alabamanna: I have to agree with you.  Something would have to go terribly, cosmically &  egregiously wrong i order to allow JVDS to step foot no Aruban soil again.  I pray that never happens.  I hope the Peruvians hold him as long as possible.  I can see the ACLU taking issue with numerous “accidents” that could would might happen to him in Alabama

About A's claim that he was "sick in the head" - it’s almost as if he had DID.  (Not sure if anyone brought this up yet or not, but it seemed interesting enough to explore…)  There’s the Dumb One who tries to stage scenes, like exiting the room with empty coffee cups only to get “locked out.”  There is the Cruel One who taunts Natalee’s family.  The Young One who runs when it gets messy.  Romeo is the one who can charm his way into, and out of, numerous situations.  There are others I’m sure I’ve neglected to name but these come readily to mind.  Is it that he’s played another part so long that he got lost somewhere in the mix? 

Whether a psychopath,sociopath, schizophrenic or person afflicted with borderline personality disorder – is this still the best thing his mom could come up with while she was busy reaching?  To say he was possessed would have been more interesting.  Evil spirits and voices in your head telling you to do things are always a good fall back excuse.  Let’s not forget the shamans/spiritualists at the ready to excise the evil demons.  Now that could have been handy….

With kind rgds,
C

Self edit for clarity...

[Mon Quixote]

PS - Can a mod delete post #1605, I made it better.  I haven't been the same since they treated the insomnia.  I think I was better while I was sleep-deprived....

Muchisimas gracias,
C

Done

[Ono]

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch?  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge?  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Janet

Janet:   

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.

I hear ya but ... I find the FBI's appeasement of those who have prevented justice from prevailing for five long years is such a betrayal to the memory of an American citizen.

Logic dictates that cooperation with the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has had an agenda to Joran van der Sloot from the getgo ... is not about to have a positive outcome.

Janet

+++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184:  Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.

Janet-I feel your pain.  But the FBI has no jurisdiction on the "sovereign nation of Aruba" as we Scared Monkeys were all made so painfully aware of five years ago.  Aruba rubbed our [ America's ] collective noses in that fact and gloated all the way!  They relished our [ America's  ] legal helplessness.  We Scared Monkeys were laughed at, rediculed, and basically insulted from the get-go.

Actually, I was surprised that the extortion sting got as far as it did.  As much as I think it morally wrong that Aruba didn't give the FBI free rein immediately after Natalee [ an American citizen ]became missing, I also don't think burning diplomatic bridges is wise or productive, unless it's absolutely necessary..  But, I'm just espousing an onlooker's opinon ... and nothing more.

[Tylergal]

Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.

he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

You know that squad of misfits and goons over at RU were already accusing Stephany of being an agent of the FBI, who set Joran up and she was killed because she was trying to set him up.  You know there are a lot of loony birds in the world and ABC takes their clues from RU and HuffPo.