Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[IBE]

In the last thread or so, I asked if Lourdes Flores was related to Stephany's dad. It was said it was not his wife. In exploring for L. Flores on uTube I found a blurb about her and Peruvian Airlines in it. It was also showing pictures of a race car driver before and after her data. The driver looked like Stephany's dad.

There is a reason, of which I am sorry to say I cannot tell now that I need to know if they are relatives. Lourdes Flores ran for President. I am not sure if she won or not. Stephany's dad ran for vice pres and President.

Would one of our Monkey family summarize what is going on from the beginning of this clip to about the 8:00 mark especially any data, relationships between the race car driver, Lourdes and Peruvian Airlines? I read somewhere that Lourdes is on their board, but wondered why they are referencing a race car drive in the blurb and who he is, and what race he was in. TIA

IBE    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related

[San]

Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 21, 2010 11:01 p.m. EDT

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1


Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

Its adds, "he presents traits of an anti-social personality" and is "indifferent towards others' well being."

Despite this, the report says, "he doesn't show any psychopathological trauma that impedes him from perceiving and evaluating reality."

Also Monday, Van der Sloot told the judge that his rights and due process were violated after his arrest in connection with the killing of Stefany Flores Ramirez, his attorney told CNN.

The judge will decide on the legality of van der Sloot's incarceration by Wednesday, lawyer Maximo Altez said. If the ruling is unfavorable to van der Sloot, Altez said he is prepared to appeal to the highest court.

While in front of the judge, however, van der Sloot declined to give a formal statement on the facts of the case, according to the court. The reason he gave was the ongoing motion for habeas corpus, which he hopes will nullify the statements he gave to police that led to his imprisonment.

Van der Sloot's decision will not hold up the legal proceedings against him, the court said.

Meanwhile, in a Dutch newspaper article published Monday, van der Sloot says he was "tricked" into confessing to the murder of Flores.

Peruvian police told him that if he signed the papers they gave him, he would be transferred to the Netherlands, he told De Telegraaf in a jail interview.

"In my blind panic I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them," he said.

Van der Sloot was twice arrested over the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, but never charged.

His mother said Saturday he was mentally unwell, De Telegraaf reported in what it called an exclusive interview with her.

Van der Sloot went to Peru to escape having to enter the high security section of a psychiatric hospital, Anita van der Sloot said.

She said he suffered severe psychological distress at the early death of his father, for which he blamed himself, she said, without giving further details.

She did not deny that he killed Flores.

She said she spoke to him shortly before Flores died and soon after and that he sounded paranoid, saying he was being "followed and watched," De Telegraaf reported.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Altez, has maintained that the judge in the case should strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

But Peruvian police have defended the interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

According to transcripts of his confession, van der Sloot said he elbowed Flores in the face before strangling her and then suffocating her with his shirt.

The transcripts -- provided to CNN by a police source -- provide shocking details and give the public its first glimpse of why van der Sloot says the alleged murder took place. The source has not been named because he was not authorized to pass along the material.

"There was blood everywhere," van der Sloot said in the transcripts. "What am I going to do now. I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so, I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Peruvian authorities have charged van der Sloot with murder.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

In the transcript, van der Sloot said that after Flores read the e-mail, she punched him in the face.

"At that moment impulsively, with my right elbow I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose," van der Sloot said. "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."

Van der Sloot said he had a quick thought to try and hide the body but instead fled.

He was arrested in Chile on June 3 and was returned the next day to Peru. Along with killing Flores, who had a broken neck, he took money and bank cards from her wallet, police said.

Van der Sloot told police in Chile a different story of how Flores died when he was arrested there, according to transcripts. He blamed the death on robbers who had waited for him at his hotel in Peru.

"There was a man coming from the access door with a knife in his hand," van der Sloot said. "The man with the knife hit her in the face, making her bleed through the nose."

But Peru authorities said they had overwhelming evidence pointing to van der Sloot, and when he was transferred to Peru, van der Sloot confessed to the crime, police said.

Van der Sloot said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and had met Flores while he was gambling.

Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won from gambling.

Van der Sloot offered a different motive.

"After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act," van der Sloot said. "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn't thinking."

Van der Sloot is being held in a high-security area of the Miguel Castro Castro prison where only two of 10 cells are occupied, and he has no contact with inmates in the general prison population.

He is under guard 24 hours a day, authorities have said.

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

There is the possibility that van der Sloot will be integrated with other segments of the prison population.

CNN's Francesca Church, Mayra Cuevas and Jean Casarez contributed to this report

[Jo-An]

I have translated the interview a reporter had with Joran, as printed in today's De Telegraaf.


"IF ONLY I HAD LISTENED TO MY MOTHER"

by our special reporters John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes

LIMA (Peru), Tuesday

Patience is usually rewarded. After two and a half hours of waiting in an endless row of Peruvian family members of prisoners, finally the solid steel door of the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima swings open. Followed by passport control, body scans and two body searches. After passing two gates follows a courtyard adjacent to a cell block.
Under prying eyes and shouts in the distance another gate opens. Then there is the sudden confrontation with the most hated man of the moment: Joran van der Sloot. He gives a firm handshake and we sit at a plastic table. The guard steps aside discreetly.
What's it like in here? Is the tentative opening question. Dressed in a red polo and khaki pants ("got it from the embassy") Van der Sloot is being cautious. "It's ok. I'm managing. Since a few days I have a mattress so I sleep a bit better. At night, rats crawl from the toilet hole into my cell. To counter that I put a thick layer of wet newspapers on top of the hole. I can't bear the thought of a rat gnawing on my ear."
Yet he will not complain, he says. "The fact that I'm here, is my own fault. My lawyer told me that I have to stay here at least two years. That's how long it takes for the trial to begin. I try to make the best of it."
He is happy with the clothes and toiletries that his mother arranged for him. "It's autumn and occasionally it gets cold ... so a few sweaters were very welcome." When he hears that his mother is not planning to come and visit, he nods subdued. "I understand, I caused her and many others too much pain. If only I had only listened to her."

During the conversation the Colombian neighbor of Van der Sloot behind bars, looks interested. "He is suspected of six contract killings," says Van der Sloot. "Sometimes he jokes that he'll kill me too for $75,000. But we get along fine and sometimes we play cards together. When asked if he killed Stephany Flores, the answer is short. "I will say absolutely nothing about that. My lawyer doesn't allow me to." But is it correct that he has made a confession? "All the papers that the Peruvians are showing now, they made me sign with false promises. If I signed them, I would be extradited to the Netherlands. I was so panicked that I signed everything they put in front of me. In Chile they have lied to me and told me I had to go to Peru. In retrospect, I could have just gotten on a plane in Chile to the Netherlands."
Van der Sloot said that he hadn't been mistreated during interrogations. "But there was a big bowl of water next to the desk during one of the hearings. They said they would put my head in if I was not cooperating." The embassy visits him once a week and they pay him 30 euros a month for shopping in a little prison shop. The food is almost literally bread and water, says Van der Sloot. "In the morning, watery tea and a dry bun. In the afternoon we get rice and beans. I can buy something extra at a small restaurant, but you must also pay the guards to get it into your cell." Grinning, he says that his lawyer has received letters with marriage proposals of Peruvian women. "One wants to get pregnant by me," said Van der Sloot. But he realizes full well that many Peruvians want to drink his blood, even in prison. "That's why I would rather stay in this hallway," says van der Sloot. "The director said that it's better for my own safety."

Regret
He has not used the word regret in relation to the murder of Stephany. About the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, he is completely done talking, says Van der Sloot. However, looking back now he has "great regret" that he went to Peru from Aruba. In the police file it seems that one of his fellow poker players, Elton Garcia, has all the papers of an American federal agent with him. On one of the casino images he can be seen as a handsome man with dark sunglasses. Garcia was the one who on Tuesday night caused the body of Stephany (21) to be found. Van der Sloot was already on the run. He had the manager of the Atlantic City casino call the hotel to ask if Van der Sloot was in his room.
According to him, because he had a diner appointment with Van der Sloot, who besides he "barely knew". When nobody answered the hotel room door and a 'smell' was observed, the porter came in with the manager. They found Stephany.
In fact, Garcia has a more important role. He arrived eight days before Van der Sloot in the Peruvian capital Lima and took up residence there in Hotel Tac, a low budget hotel, which also can be booked per hour.
He had met Van der Sloot as "a poker player" and asked him to come to Lima for a poker tournament. There would be a lot of money to be won. He also ensured that Van der Sloot moved into the Hotel Tac, where Garcia was staying already.

Worries
Van der Sloot says about that: "That Garcia had arranged and paid everything for me. In retrospect I just want to hit myself in the head that I let him lure me. I barely knew the guy. It was just a setup. "
In the file, Garcia is also questioned by the police. He declares that he is one of the hundred best professional poker players in the world. He says he knew Van der Sloot from the internet and had met him at the casino, where he and Stephany played poker. When he heard that Stephany was missing, he was said to be worried about the both of them. He told the police he feared that both probably were "abducted", which is why he had someone call Van der Sloots room. Did the FBI have an interest to continue the operation after the sting operation in Aruba? Without a doubt. In Aruba the private detective of the Holloways paid $ 25,000 to Van der Sloot, while filmed by the FBI. Ten thousand in cash, 15,000 was wired. But Van der Sloot would have to be away from Aruba, in order to arrest him. For extortion, he could not be extradited at that moment because Aruba only extradites for drug offenses.

When Van der Sloot was preparing to have himself admitted in the Netherlands, as his mother says, the fear was that he would be out of the picture completely. Peru was a better destination. This would explain the invitation of Garcia.
Did Van der Sloot commit his crime under the eyes of the FBI? What could an FBI agent do when he discovers a dead Stephany? He would have to find a way to tell the police.
And was the hotel prepared by the FBI? Very remarkable are the images of the door of his hotel room. It is striking that one and possibly even two cameras were pointed right at his door, in one of the images the doorknob is on the other side.
For Van der Sloots attorney Maximo Altez it is crystal clear. The FBI lured him to Peru to have him arrested and extradited. But Altez doesn't want to anticipate his tactics. However he denies that he has resigned from the defense. "My family had to go underground and the windows of my office were smashed, but I will keep fighting," said Altez, himself an ex-policeman, later after the interview with Van der Sloot in a hotel in Lima. "The police and law enforcement made huge mistakes and that's what I will now have a few procedures about. After that is over, that's when the trial will start. That is, if that will still go ahead because I think that I can get Joran out of prison.
These are all straws that Van der Sloot are grasping. He shudders at the thought of a long stay in Castro Castro, he says. "I don't want to think too much about it," he said when we said goodbye. A cleaner, the assassin and Van der Sloot watch as the gates open again for the visiters to leave and then slam shut. The endless waiting will begin again.

[San]

Thank you Jo-An.

[San]

From the above article:

During the conversation the Colombian neighbor of Van der Sloot behind bars, looks interested. "He is suspected of six contract killings," says Van der Sloot. "Sometimes he jokes that he'll kill me too for $75,000. But we get along fine and sometimes we play cards together.

You aren't worth $75,000 Joran.  I'm sure he would kill you for $75.00.

[Tylergal]

Selena, Wasn't there an Albanian killed in an elevator in one of the hotels in Aruba once?  Or was that a Bulgarian?  Some mob connection or other.

Can't remember now. . .

I remember something like that, too. I'm just waiting to see what develops. Maybe nothing. Joran acted alone and on his own volition, no one set him up. But I could see something else happening that would make him whack out and it would be more than a gambling addiction and that would be a gambling debt that he can't pay. Maybe someone cqalled in his marker and it made him feel watched, suspicious, etc....but then it is Joran and he pissed off a few people in Aruba and Paul isn't there to pay people off or grant them favors, Anita is " done" with him.
Too many Aruban nightmares...maybe he is nothing.

Wasn't it the hotel where Johns or Jones were working security? It was under construction or remodeling> am I recalling this was early in the NH case ( within days?)

Yes, and they were out of work as a result of it being closed for construction and only working intermittently guarding the construction materials, if I recall correctly.

[trimmonthelake]

Thank you for the updates.Very interesting.

[Jo-An]

BTW the posts that carpe noctem and klaasend posted on pages 89 (#1778) and 90 (#1780) from the Telegraaf website, were copies of what is written on the front page of today's Telegraaf.

[Sharon/Tx]

Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.

[San]

Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.

Yep, Joran will now have a killer and a rat to keep him warm.

[Jo-An]

Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.

[Jo-An]

Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.

Yep, Joran will now have a killer and a rat to keep him warm.

Ah yeah, I can picture that, the three of them spooning on that filthy mattress!

[San]

Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.

Exactly Jo-An.

[San]

Everyone have a good day.

[DPJ]

Good translation Jo-An, well done.

I only noticed that you left out part of the header:

Liep Nederlander in val van FBI?

Was Dutchman set up by the FBI?

Seemingly unimportant but it seems the Telegraaf and Joran for that matter are going with the theory of a sting operation.
How on earth will they piece in the dead girl in that?

[msmarple]

Anna – “don’t give a flying fig …” I say that all the time!

*
Anna – It was a Bulgarian killed in an elevator in Aruba; it’s in our M&C thread summary (of course) --
 
03/09/2001 – Bulgarian Poli Pantev shot in an elevator at Sonesta Hotel; shooting captured on security camera. Appeared to be drug-related. http://tinyurl.com/khue2
Posted 8/24/2006 at M&C by msmarple. Updates 8/25 by msmarple. Also by Appeals 9/14 and SunFreak2 9/14

*
Tyler – Paulus turning over in the frying pan! LOL

Tyler – Don’t know why you’ve been thinking baseball bat, but in some pictures we saw of Joran’s room, there was a baseball bat, standing in the corner I think, and we speculated about it. I think it was aluminum but not sure. Plus, as texasmom and I know, bate de baseball is often the weapon of choice on Aruba; I think they carry them in their cars just in case.

(I mean, I don’t think I ever saw a lead pipe mentioned as a weapon in Aruba – don’t know about texasmom. I say that because I’ve actually known people who kept a pipe under the driver’s seat. Not to mention that it’s one of the weapons in “Clue” … but I digress.)

*
Carpe – “Joran … screwed up a wet dream or two.” LOL (and I don’t acknowledge you enough. Thank you for all you bring to the table.)

*
Nonesuch – I appreciate the article you brought over from The Daily Beast. It quotes Anita as saying that Paulus didn’t want to have Joran committed after Natalee because if people found out they would think he did it … which is something I’ve had rolling around in the back of my mind for years, and posted here a few times lately. “Catch 22”

The consequences of murdering someone, disposing of a body, and covering it up are unforeseeable and far-reaching. Ye reap what ye sow.

* * *
Elton Garcia, the taxi drivers, the FBI – Joran and his supporters know how to play the blame game. Keeping his fan base roiled up keeps the money rolling in.

It seems Joran has diversified, expanded, his business by adding another victim.

* * *
Remember that this stuff we’re reading is coming from Joran, Anita, and his lawyers, and via some murky translations. It’s all self-serving defense mechanisms.

They want to put this murder squarely at the feet of Beth and the FBI.

Why Joran went to Peru, how he met Elton, how he got Stephany to his hotel, what happened in Room 309, why he fled – No amount of hype about “poor persecuted Joran” changes these facts:

* Natalee disappeared
* He made multiple “confessions” about what happened to Natalee
* He extorted/defrauded Beth - $ in exchange for a false location of Natalee’s body
* He departed Aruba, probably on advice of an ALE leak re. possible arrest warrant
* He murdered and robbed Stephany in Peru, fled Peru, changed appearance, was caught
* He awaits extradition and arrest for extortion/fraud, certainly one of the cruelest incidence of extortion/fraud ever

Aruba saw to it that there was no evidence in the Holloway case.
Peru has ample evidence including video in the Flores case.
The U.S. has ample evidence including video in the extortion/fraud case.

* * *
I don’t know what to make of the Elton Garcia thing. If he's FBI tracking Joran in Peru, so what?

* * *
Did someone (Anita?) say that Joran was “invited” to this tournament? Or at the very least, that he was going to Peru to play in the tournament?

The tournament keeps being mentioned, but Joran arrived two weeks before it started. And we’ve heard that he wasn’t registered for the tournament.

Doesn't registration require a cash entrance fee? Maybe he didn’t have the cash to register.

(I don’t think the tournament is all that important, but it keeps being mentioned so maybe I’m missing something.)

* * *
If his expenses were being paid by someone (Garcia, they’re saying) – why was the hotel bill overdue by two days? Why was he sending emails asking for money? Why wasn’t he registered for the tournament? Why was he broke? Why did he rob Stephany?

* * *
And OMG, please don’t tell me that the hotel actually has cameras IN the ROOMS? (I infer that the camera IN Room 309 is “suspiciously missing.)”

DI I read this wrong? Bad translation?

They're trying to make it sound "suspicious" that the hotel employees are under something like a gag order and ergo can't talk about the cameras. Seems entirely appropriate and SOP to me.

* * *
It’s up to his lawyers to point to other potential suspects, trash the victim, complain about suspect rights and treatment, garner sympathy for him – all classic strategy, Defense Law 101.

Shakespeare nailed that one, too – “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” (Henry VI Part II) And he meant it exactly the way we mean it today – a joke that his audience (then and now) relates to.

* * *
And good morning, everyone.

[Jo-An]

Good translation Jo-An, well done.

I only noticed that you left out part of the header:

Liep Nederlander in val van FBI?

Was Dutchman set up by the FBI?

Seemingly unimportant but it seems the Telegraaf and Joran for that matter are going with the theory of a sting operation.
How on earth will they piece in the dead girl in that?

I think the FBI operation and Stephany's murder are two seperate things and I don't think De Telegraaf was speculation that the two had anything to do with each other. Joran only talks about Elton Garcia as being part of the set up, not about it being about Stephany.
When Stephany was found, the whole sting operation went down the drain.

[trimmonthelake]

http://www2.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/report_van_der_sloot_boasts_of_marriage_offers/161673/
Report: Van der Sloot boasts of marriage offers
Associated Press
Published: June 22, 2010
AMSTERDAM (AP) - A Dutch newspaper reports that murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has boasted of receiving marriage proposals in his Peruvian jail cell.
   
De Telegraaf quotes Van der Sloot as saying one woman even asked him to get her pregnant. He is suspected of killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores in his hotel room on May 30 and is also the main
suspect in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
   
The paper says Van der Sloot would not answer questions about Flores, on orders from his lawyer. He expressed no remorse at her death, the paper said in the interview published Tuesday.
   
The 22-year-old Dutchman told police in Peru he killed Flores, but he told the paper the confession was coerced. He refused to speak to the judge handling his case Monday.

[Jo-An]

DPJ, are you going to watch Anita's interview too tonight??

[msmarple]

Jo-An - YOUR translations are always wonderful and clear. When I said "murky translations" I mean the online-translated versions. And thank you for doing them for us.

* * *
Reminds me - as klaas mentioned, I check el comecerio every day and sometimes post there. I was made very welcome, but picked up that some didn't appreciate English language posts. So I started doing Google translations to Spanish.

klaas posted a link to an article I had commented on. The entire article was Google translated from Spanish to English. My Google-translated-English-to-Spanish, back-to-English comments came out really strange; I barely recognized them ...