Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[can]

I fell asleep and missed 20/20 last night.  Can't help but think how much money ABC and others are making from the romanticizing of Joran.

Joran loves Joran - and will do what's necessary to serve himself.  I'm not buying any of it.  He loves?????....hogwash!!!

[canoworms]

hi can!
Jo-Ann, The forensics will show which injuries were sustained while her heart was still beating ( blood flowing) and the position of death will show from the coloration of her body from livor mortis. ( collection of blood/capillary action/discoloration as the body breaks down tissues, etc). I feel that he repeatedly beat her as she was unconscious, but still alive to produce a final death, overkill, if you will, after the first RAGE based strike, which may have been the nose ( blood still flowing ). He won't admit to this of course, or he "blacks out" in rage/thrill of the moment. (< poor choice of words, but I feel this characterizes that kind of violence with JVDS)
IMHO
Selena

[Magnolia]

Joran van der Sloot is a goner.

So says prison expert and ex-con Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants.

On "The Early Show on Saturday Morning," Levine said van der Sloot will never last in prison in Peru, where he's being held for the May 30 slaying of 21-year-old business student Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room.

Whole article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/19/earlyshow/saturday/main6597757.shtml

I saw this interview.  Larry Levine said that his advice to Anita was to go buy herself a black
dress and prepare for Joran's funeral.

[can]

Overkill Indeed!

R. I. P. Stefany.

[SunnyinTX]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

I am not sure what you are asking, Robert. Are you asking me how that happened? 

[SunnyinTX]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

I thought they said no blood on the racquet, not no DNA.  Hopefully when the entire report is published it will become clearer if the tennis racquet was used at all.

...I do remember no blood being found but also thought it was said Stephany's DNA was not on the racquet...I must have been mistaken...sorry

[SunnyinTX]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

EURobert,

It was my understanding that the tennis racket had been ruled out as a weapon.  Everything Joran did to murder Stephany he did with his bare hands and his white shirt.

Anyone whose understanding is different on this, please correct me..

DITTO

[texasmom]

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/ex-chick-a-mustra-cu-antes-joran-tabata-%E2%80%9Casombroso-y-romantico%E2%80%9D/

Papiamentu translation:

ex-chick owing to indicate cu formerly joran was “asombroso y romantico”

publication: saturday, 19 june 2010. categoria: general

mam by joran is insisti cu the do not murderer!

oranjestad (aan): the declaration of policy popular by abc news, esta “20/20” owing to haci interview cu melody granadillo, because cu in pasado the was the ‘chick’ by joran van der sloot, y cu the have still one dagboek for by the epoca ey.

seven year happen, they was novio y novia, cual owing to continue seven moon.

“he wax incredible,” is thing melody owing to say in one interview cu 20/20. the journalist chris cuomo owing to attain know, con the joran by formerly was full one another person compara cu thing at present world conoce.

melody owing to indica cu joran owing to send pidie coin, via sms, esta $200 before so the depart for by peru! is where all the coin owing to bay then?

according melody, joran owing to cuminza gamble very quite self. according melody, the is believe cu if acaso they owing to remain together, kizas joran will not owing to bay in direccion robez. past owing to see con joran owing to change, although the self conoce because one “otro persona”.

chris cuomo have the dagboek cune at present at new york.

besides, the mam by joran van der sloot, esta anita, also owing to send one e- mail before melody, in cual the is indicate cu keto bay the is believe cu her son is inocente. here the is insisti cu joran “no is one asesino”.

publicamente anita not owing to talk by cu her child owing to worde aresta at peru. but abc news owing to attain the e-mail here.

in this, the is splica cu the do not give neither medio by prensa mericano one interview, because the do not confia they. the is ask melody before remain safe y haci oracion before joran. the is say cu the do not the monster cu they be willing to before world see. the is believe cu joran is traumatiza, deprimi, y have one adiccion. the do not one murderer. cos is give off an odour y the is attain cu is one complot owing to worde work pe.

complot? while cu joran owing to give one detaye extenso at police peruvian by thing past owing to haci cu stephany, con past owing to choke before 1 minuut largo, y also con past owing to tapa her cara cu her same poloshirt, for her stop by breathe. today daily paper is publica this completo, before so kizas the mam also read cu not have neither type by complot here. wake up and smell the roses! if follow so, not only the family is bay till at suela… but aruba once more will cay drasticamente. afresh family van der sloot will is responsable? cuanto aruban have by lose trabao once more?

[San]

ANITA - NO MORE EXCUSES FOR THE MONSTER!

You have KNOWN, this is nothing NEW, you have known he needed help LONG BEFORE NATALEE HOLLOWAY.  You protected him, you coddled him, you were affraid of him.  It is because of this Natalee and Stephany are no longer with us. 

You have been making excuses for Joran his entire life. 


Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

To explain the above posts by Nativelingo.  For whatever reason she also had reason to visit that psychiatrist office.  The front desk gal in the office is the one who gave her the info on Joran.  Joran was a patient in the same office.  This is all before any of us heard about Natalee Holloway. 

I agree Klaas.  She has known for a long time what her son was capable of.  She helped build the monster.

Anita shifts blame towards everyone else. If you are saying your son has addictions you don't take him to bingo with you where one of his addictions was gambling.

[SunnyinTX]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I thought he strangled her with his hands and suffocated her with his shirt after throwing her on the floor and seeing she was still breathing???   

[Nikki 01]

Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?

[seemeatthebeach]

Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com

Thanks Sharon for posting this with the translation.

This article states Joran met Stephany on Friday, the 28th and they agreed to meet on the 30th. If that is true then I think this will support a measure of premeditation, and certainly enough time for Joran to ask around the casino about her or google and learn she might be a viable source for money.

As for Anita's chest beating in that article, IF she was truly committed to getting Joran psychiatric help then why didn't she get godfather Stratten to help????? What about Renfro, her dear, dear friend who posted on his facebook her wistful goodbye. Why weren't they helping with this intervention?

She still doesn't believe he killed Natalee, well by continuing to deny it, just makes me think Paulus was even more involved !!!

Cry me a river Anita, I do not feel sorry for this mother who had warning after warning after warning sign long before..........

Does anyone know if the Netherlands allows you to have a person committed to a psych hospital if they are a danger to themselves or someone else even if you're an adult.

My hubby were able to finally get my SIL admitted into a psych hospital when she was 24 years old.
She was inpatient for about 6 weeks.......she was a danger to herself and society.
She is 5' 10" and at the time weighed only 92 lbs. She is bi-polar and was in manic phase. She decided one day to go to Atlantic City/Ocean City NJ to sunbathe and gamble. She was staying in a rent-a-room for about $30/day. IIRC the 3rd day we got a phone call from LE that she had been in 7 (yes SEVEN) fender bender car accidents in those 3 days. Could we please come and get her......this is just one of the many crazy things that happened within about 1 months time......We called the psych hospital in Phili. and spoke to doctor, and he said bring her in. She had no say in it even though she was over 18 yrs old.
My point being if the laws are similar in the Netherlands, Anita should and could have had Joran committed involuntarily. There was more than enough evidence of him being a danger to himself and to others.

If the laws are different in the Netherlands, then Anita's hands were tied.
Does Aruba have a psych center or hospital? I believe she could have had him committed somewhere, even in the US if she was really worried or believed he was truly mentally ill.

[canoworms]

He was guilty Nikki. Guilt can do strange things to a person.
Selena

[SunnyinTX]

Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

[canoworms]

SunnyinTx,
There are no crazy people in Aruba. It is One Happy Island.
Bwa haaaahaaaahaaa
He was supposed to attend college in the USA, thank god that never happened. I don't know why he couldn't be admitted in NL, they certainly had enough on him to commit him.
S

[San]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I thought he strangled her with his hands and suffocated her with his shirt after throwing her on the floor and seeing she was still breathing???   

You are probably right Sunny.  I knew the shirt was involved.  But what I was saying is that he hit her hard and broke her neck.

I also feel if there was no DNA or scratch marks on Joran that Stephany was covering up so he wouldn't harm her any more.

[canoworms]

...the person who would have stood in the way of him being committed had to be ANITA. she would not admit that he had a problem...what if he "confessed" in treatment....what a story that would have been. I see Anita as the reason he never got the help he needed. Send him to college, here, there, everywhere else...
S

[Jo-An]

Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com

Thanks Sharon for posting this with the translation.

This article states Joran met Stephany on Friday, the 28th and they agreed to meet on the 30th. If that is true then I think this will support a measure of premeditation, and certainly enough time for Joran to ask around the casino about her or google and learn she might be a viable source for money.

As for Anita's chest beating in that article, IF she was truly committed to getting Joran psychiatric help then why didn't she get godfather Stratten to help????? What about Renfro, her dear, dear friend who posted on his facebook her wistful goodbye. Why weren't they helping with this intervention?

She still doesn't believe he killed Natalee, well by continuing to deny it, just makes me think Paulus was even more involved !!!

Cry me a river Anita, I do not feel sorry for this mother who had warning after warning after warning sign long before..........

Does anyone know if the Netherlands allows you to have a person committed to a psych hospital if they are a danger to themselves or someone else even if you're an adult.

My hubby were able to finally get my SIL admitted into a psych hospital when she was 24 years old.
She was inpatient for about 6 weeks.......she was a danger to herself and society.
She is 5' 10" and at the time weighed only 92 lbs. She is bi-polar and was in manic phase. She decided one day to go to Atlantic City/Ocean City NJ to sunbathe and gamble. She was staying in a rent-a-room for about $30/day. IIRC the 3rd day we got a phone call from LE that she had been in 7 (yes SEVEN) fender bender car accidents in those 3 days. Could we please come and get her......this is just one of the many crazy things that happened within about 1 months time......We called the psych hospital in Phili. and spoke to doctor, and he said bring her in. She had no say in it even though she was over 18 yrs old.
My point being if the laws are similar in the Netherlands, Anita should and could have had Joran committed involuntarily. There was more than enough evidence of him being a danger to himself and to others.

If the laws are different in the Netherlands, then Anita's hands were tied.
Does Aruba have a psych center or hospital? I believe she could have had him committed somewhere, even in the US if she was really worried or believed he was truly mentally ill.

Yes, in the NL you can have someone admitted to a psych hospital if they're a danger to themselves or society. I don't think Joran met those requirements (yet).
Otherwise you can only be admitted on a voluntary basis.
So: Joran probably told Anita he agreed to being admitted, of course he was telling a lie and instead hopped on a plane to Peru.

[Ono]

Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

The walls of the room are tiled according to one of Greta's segments while she was in Peru, so it's conceiveable that his slamming Stephany into the wall during his attack on her could surely have snapped her neck.  After all, he was so brutal, one of her eyeballs became dis-lodged.

[San]

Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?

I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.