Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Tylergal]

Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

I understand, Sunny.  Yes.  That information is so private that even the names are changed in records except for a few people who are directly related to their care.   It is amazingly well protected, like with politicians' records, sometimes even kept in the office of administrators.  ;-0

[klaasend]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

Translation of the Natalee Holloway Case police report
Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot accuse each other
DIARIO Aruba
4/20/2006

ORANJESTAD (AAN)

D says to J: How do you feel Joran?
J says to D (in an upset tone): You had them arrest my father, my friend
D says to J (very calmly): That’s what I’m telling you, how do you feel?
J says to D: You know very well my father’s not involved
J says to D: I read your declaration, my friend.
D says to J: That’s bullshit.
J says to D: You lied, shit.
J says to D (very calmly): You know what happened to the girl, if you don’t know, then nothing happened to her.
J says to D: Then f**k you.
J says to D: What did you say that Freddy has to be detained?
D says to J: That Freddy has to say the truth.
J says to D: You know very well that Freddy told the truth.
S says to J: You’ll see, you’ll see.
D says to J: From the beginning, you could have avoided the matter of your dad.
D says to J: You know.
J says to D: What, where, how?
D says to J: That he wouldn’t have been detained.


Freddy has to tell the truth.  Freddy, one of Joran's best friends forever.  Kalpoes had to drop off Freddy's camera.  Wonder what Freddy had on his camera?  Freddy knows:

Freddy - 6/8/2010 - SouthBeach, Aruba

[carpe noctem]

I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.

He was a minor aged 17 with a screw loose. He could have been treated in a mental health clinic and be out in 6 months. They made a POOR decision. Now, 5 years later -- he will be DEAD within a year.

ah... but instead they laughed and snickered. Nobody lifted a finger.

Reality will always catch up. It's like a 9 iron to the head when it hits.

I think Tiger Woods said that.

[carpe noctem]

Google Keywords:

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[Tylergal]

I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.

He was a minor aged 17 with a screw loose. He could have been treated in a mental health clinic and be out in 6 months. They made a POOR decision. Now, 5 years later -- he will be DEAD within a year.

ah... but instead they laughed and snickered. Nobody lifted a finger.

Reality will always catch up. It's like a 9 iron to the head when it hits.

I think Tiger Woods said that.

Well, even worse is $25,000,000 for a quiet baby momma.

[msmarple]

Whatever his mental condition was at the time he killed Natalee – it would not have improved by his endorsement by his family, friends, and all of Aruba.

Suck on that, Anita et al.

[msmarple]

I seem to have run everybody off again ...

[Ono]

Joran is where he belongs-in prison.  He murdered two [that we know of ], defenseless young women in cold blood.  He is a human rabid dog.  If someone kills him, then at least Joran will not live to muder again.   The reason he is what he is today is really not all that important, altho it is ineteresting to speculate.   I would like to see some apologies & real remorse from Anita for Natalee's & Stephany's distraught families and the suffering her son has caused.

[Ono]

**murder**

[Tamikosmom]

THE INVOLVEMENT OF DEEPAK AND SATISH KALPOE

In his June 12, 2005 witness statement Freddy Armbatzis declares that Joran van der Sloot implicated Deepak and Satish Kalpoe in the events that encompassed the demise of Natalee Holloway.

_________

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - June 11, 2005

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the story that was made up. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.


Kalpoe v. McGraw, et al.
Case Number: BC3 63401
.
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend


Van der Sloot, Joran; Zvezdana Vukojevic (2007) (in Dutch). De zaak Natalee Holloway: mijn eigen verhaal over haar verdwijning op Aruba. Amsterdam: Sijthoff. ISBN 9789021800141. OCLC 150235828.

Freddy Arambatzis - Witness Statement - June 12, 2005

Page 160/161:

I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago. Joran and myself are both really into sports and that is how we became good friends.

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house. He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together. After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her. They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba. The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves. After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away. (....)


The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house.

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
 
Translation Credit: Rammstein

[Tamikosmom]

My thought process convinces me that Joran van der Sloot will deemed mentally incompetent and therefore cannot be held accountable for his actions pertaining to the death Stephany ... the death of Natalee as well as ... the extortion charges.  Treatment in the Netherlands will be where it is at.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but ....

Janet

+++++


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 148/149:  Anita tells us (Greta and Beth) all about Joran and what a good boy he is.  How smart he is.  I let her go on and on, as this gives me time to listen, look, access.  And as she continues, she begins to share with us about a difficult time they have had with him recently.  How he exibits oppositional defiance and is disrespectful to his mother.  How they are beginning to lose control of him as he sneaks out at night and comes and goes as he pleases.  After about thirty she concludes by telling us Joran is seeing a psychologist for his defiant behavior.


February 16, 2006

Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counselling for his problems.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html

Could the underlying documented accounts encompassing the above quotes compose part of a foundation that will deem that Joran van der Sloot will not be held accountable for the death of Natalee Holloway?

Janet

[msmarple]

Jonathan45 {said, quote:}

@msmarple ---- to your reply 278 [page 14] Natalee Case Discussion 840

My answer to your question: Dead Daddy P was not at home the night Natalee died.
There was one female witness who saw Paulus car returning to Montanja 19 at around 4.00am that night, but she couldn't recognize who was driving.

My 'bike' scenario still stands. Dead Daddy P stated he was asleep between 11.00pm and 6.00am. To cover up his real alibi. Ask the former hotelmanager and close friend from the Marriott.

* * *
Are you saying that Daddy P had an inrefutable, must-be-kept-secret alibi that night? (I am in no position to ask the former hotel manager and close friend from the Marriott ... )

Hummm. This would mean that Papa sneaked off before Joran sneaked off. Lots of 'splaining to do after that night, lol. "Would not have happened if mama had been home ... "

Where does the "bike" come in?

And Thank you for replying, Jonathan45. 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

I do not know how the Peruvian legal system defines not-guilty-by-insanity but, here in the United States, you can be the craziest bedbug in the mattress, absolutely wackadoodle drooling at the mouth bedbug crazy, but if you knew at the moment you committed your crime that what you were doing was wrong (against the law), you are guilty, guilty, GUILTY.

Showing any forethought or planning is one indication that a criminal intended to do the wrong thing.

Another clue is showing consciousness of guilt after the fact. Did the criminal run way? That shows they knew they were going to get into trouble and that shows consciousness of guilt. If you had no awareness that you'd done something wrong, you would not need to run in a panic.

I'm just really surprised that Joran was so dumb and sloppy and did this heinous act in his own motel room, and left so much incriminating evidence behind. However, being a poor planner or even not having premeditated the murder is still no proof of not having actually done the crime.

He'll probably plead out to a lesser charge than first degree murder in the Peru case since his lawyers will most likely make a case the murder was not premeditated and was a spur of the moment killing.

I don't know how far his Daddy's mafia buddies from Aruba can reach to shield this guy but Daddy is dead now and can't apply any pressure to protect his son. Daddy knew a whole lot from his days as a lawyer protecting a pedophile ring of prominent Dutch politicians and movers and shakers. Then he had to pack up his whole family and skedaddle off to Aruba.

Maybe Joran can cry on the shoulder of the mafia boss who owned several Aruba casinos and extended a credit line to Joran when he was still a minor. But, I don't think Aruban mafia dons have the power to control the Peruvian legal system.

Joran will be in prison now for the rest of his life. How long that lasts remains to be seen.

[canoworms]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

Translation of the Natalee Holloway Case police report
Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot accuse each other
DIARIO Aruba
4/20/2006

ORANJESTAD (AAN)

D says to J: How do you feel Joran?
J says to D (in an upset tone): You had them arrest my father, my friend
D says to J (very calmly): That’s what I’m telling you, how do you feel?
J says to D: You know very well my father’s not involved
J says to D: I read your declaration, my friend.
D says to J: That’s bullshit.
J says to D: You lied, shit.
J says to D (very calmly): You know what happened to the girl, if you don’t know, then nothing happened to her.
J says to D: Then f**k you.
J says to D: What did you say that Freddy has to be detained?
D says to J: That Freddy has to say the truth.
J says to D: You know very well that Freddy told the truth.
S says to J: You’ll see, you’ll see.
D says to J: From the beginning, you could have avoided the matter of your dad.
D says to J: You know.
J says to D: What, where, how?
D says to J: That he wouldn’t have been detained.


Freddy has to tell the truth.  Freddy, one of Joran's best friends forever.  Kalpoes had to drop off Freddy's camera.  Wonder what Freddy had on his camera?  Freddy knows:

Freddy - 6/8/2010 - SouthBeach, Aruba

Hi Klass.

His shirt looks like it says SCUMBAG.
Freddy Arembatzis-Zedan. And his mother had access to Bubali Sanctuary? She worked there, or had duties concerning the sanctuary? Am I remembering this correctly?
S

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

[wingnut]

Jumping about 20 pages ahead, but here goes.

There is no way that Stephany's daddy is going to let Joran go anywhere to serve a more cushy sentence.  No way.  You can be sure that he is aware of what Peruvian prisons are like vs. the US or Netherlands.

I think her daddy has more input in this than we can even begin to conceive.  His political contacts (and there are many!) are not going to fail to heed his wishes, and I feel very much that he desires for Joran to have a long and tortuous stay in Peru.  I don't feel that anyone, anywhere, would be able to sway him.....except maybe Beth or Dave.

[canoworms]

Jonathan45 {said, quote:}

@msmarple ---- to your reply 278 [page 14] Natalee Case Discussion 840

My answer to your question: Dead Daddy P was not at home the night Natalee died.
There was one female witness who saw Paulus car returning to Montanja 19 at around 4.00am that night, but she couldn't recognize who was driving.

My 'bike' scenario still stands. Dead Daddy P stated he was asleep between 11.00pm and 6.00am. To cover up his real alibi. Ask the former hotelmanager and close friend from the Marriott.

* * *
Are you saying that Daddy P had an inrefutable, must-be-kept-secret alibi that night? (I am in no position to ask the former hotel manager and close friend from the Marriott ... )

Hummm. This would mean that Papa sneaked off before Joran sneaked off. Lots of 'splaining to do after that night, lol. "Would not have happened if mama had been home ... "

Where does the "bike" come in?

And Thank you for replying, Jonathan45. 

" Swingers Club "...Paul used a bike as so not to alert his neighbors to sounds of car peeling into the driveway...I dunno where the bike comes in either.

[Jo-An]

Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.

[canoworms]

Google Keywords:

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she can borrow from Renfro

[msmarple]

Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.

Jo-An - thanks for all you do here.

So - The U.S. press is out of the "bidding wars" now? (Good luck with that with what's coming out of Peru.)