Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[canoworms]

Thanks Jo Ann,
Any intelligent human being in his shoes would probably realize what they are saying is on the record. I can hardly wait.  Must buy popcorn.

[can]

I've read Jonathon45 posts many times.  Not sure if was here or elsewhere.

He believes that Joran buried Natalee near his playground, his home, (cucunu sp), I believe is the word he uses.  Thinks he got on his bike w/Natalee and buried her nearby.  Possibly in that dump nearby full of trash, cars etc.  I believe a search was attempted there but was too dangerous.  This dump may be where he threw the dog he killed.

I hope I'm remembering this correctly.

[msmarple]

What we know about Joran’s behavior BEFORE he met Natalee --

* * *
{Thanks klaas - I remember that night well:}

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interesting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

* * *
{Sorry, lost quote attributes:}

Remember that Prison Warden {Freddy Madura, thanks San for the whole name} who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

{NBC interviewer:} Is it strange to see him in this environment? 

FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN:  Yes, strange in a way, in another way, not, because of his temperament.  When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry.  I know that before, that already he was a very angry person.
   
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9085888/

{Aruba judge later ordered this interview to be taken off the air - ooops, too late, it’s out there forever.}

* * *
{thanks Janet/aka Tamikosmom, who has EVERYTHING:}

February 16, 2006

Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counseling for his problems.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html

* * *

{Jan VDS must have thought he could pull off a commitment for SOME reason:}

{sorry, lost quote attribuote:}

In Joran's translation of his book:

Page 156, June 13 informal talk with Jan van der Straaten.

Jan Van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental
institution. You only will have to tell the truth.

* * *

[canoworms]

Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s

[canoworms]

Can , remember Dutchlady? She was a psychic/profiler of sorts. I don't know what happened to her, she was read many times on the thread. anyway, she was posting at that time. Try to look at her stuff.
S

[canoworms]

Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S

[the big hammer]

The Bike

I believe it is Jonathan45's view that jvds is alone responsible for Natalee's death, as well as the hiding of her body. 

And that after he killed Natalee on the vds property, the goon used his bicycle to take Natalee's body to a place of hiding.  The contention rests on a review of the statements, coupled with the view that jvds, as a young child on Aruba would be uniquely aware of numerous potential hiding places which could very well be unknown to many.  As a limestone seamount, Aruba has numerous underground caves and vaults, owing to the frequently changing below-ground aquifers which which evolve and change, sometimes with the tides.  In one of this caverns, it would be possible certainly, to hide something in such a way as to never be found.

An example:  http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_IN_ARUBA_MOYER/caves_of_aruba.htm

.

[can]

Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

I do not know how the Peruvian legal system defines not-guilty-by-insanity but, here in the United States, you can be the craziest bedbug in the mattress, absolutely wackadoodle drooling at the mouth bedbug crazy, but if you knew at the moment you committed your crime that what you were doing was wrong (against the law), you are guilty, guilty, GUILTY.

Showing any forethought or planning is one indication that a criminal intended to do the wrong thing.

Another clue is showing consciousness of guilt after the fact. Did the criminal run way? That shows they knew they were going to get into trouble and that shows consciousness of guilt. If you had no awareness that you'd done something wrong, you would not need to run in a panic.

I'm just really surprised that Joran was so dumb and sloppy and did this heinous act in his own motel room, and left so much incriminating evidence behind. However, being a poor planner or even not having premeditated the murder is still no proof of not having actually done the crime.

He'll probably plead out to a lesser charge than first degree murder in the Peru case since his lawyers will most likely make a case the murder was not premeditated and was a spur of the moment killing.

I don't know how far his Daddy's mafia buddies from Aruba can reach to shield this guy but Daddy is dead now and can't apply any pressure to protect his son. Daddy knew a whole lot from his days as a lawyer protecting a pedophile ring of prominent Dutch politicians and movers and shakers. Then he had to pack up his whole family and skedaddle off to Aruba.

Maybe Joran can cry on the shoulder of the mafia boss who owned several Aruba casinos and extended a credit line to Joran when he was still a minor. But, I don't think Aruban mafia dons have the power to control the Peruvian legal system.

Joran will be in prison now for the rest of his life. How long that lasts remains to be seen.

oldiebutgoodie.  Great post. I hope there are no plea bargains in the Peruvian justice system although it seems clear that Anita wants to see Joran back in the Netherlands in a Mental Hospital.  imo

[wingnut]

Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

Still trying to catch up here......

John Ludwick and Joran became Facebook friends somewhere between March 2nd and March 6th, so 2-1/2 months would be a lie.  I have the screen shots to prove it.

[canoworms]

I remember the triangluation of calls, and one to Paulus's supervisor-lawyer- or Steve Croes area, very early, JVDs asleep on the bus.
I wonder if that bike is in the pond at the quarry.

[msmarple]

Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S

S - To be sure.

I would like to see interviews with these people now, just for giggles --

Jan Van der Stratten

Gerald Dompig ("Max deVries has been sighted in Brazil; American Insurance Company is investigating" - the man is a PIG, except that pigs are far better.)

Jorge Pesquera (who is in Palm Beach County, Florida, which ought to have its head examined)

[can]

Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s

Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.

[canoworms]

hi oldie and wingnut1
I'm making cookies and running back and forth to read the thread. Multitasking.
agree oldie, and can't wait for the pearls to drop from his mouth....how much time has he had to think through every cockamamie excuse and go back to " I'm nuts".

[canoworms]

Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s

Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.

the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.

[Magnolia]

Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s

Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.

the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.

That was the Moko pond and it has never been searched completely.

[canoworms]

Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S

S - To be sure.

I would like to see interviews with these people now, just for giggles --

Jan Van der Stratten

Gerald Dompig ("Max deVries has been sighted in Brazil; American Insurance Company is investigating" - the man is a PIG, except that pigs are far better.)

Jorge Pesquera (who is in Palm Beach County, Florida, which ought to have its head examined)

someone can make the comic book- there are no more unbelievable characters as those you mention.
S
have a cookie.

[can]

Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s

Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.

the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.

Not sure what Dutchlady posted.
Jonathon45 is convinced that J buried Natalee near his childhood playing ground. 

[canoworms]

Sczhyte.
Now they'll all be at the quarry for a bon fire.

[Tamikosmom]

Papa and Mama are off to the Greater Vancouver Zoo with three year old grandson while Mommy and Daddy do their own thing in town.  Believe me ... tt doesn't get better.

Thanks to all for all the updates, quotes and articles.  It is appreciated.

Janet
1:00 PM PT

[wingnut]