Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[yuknomenot]

Joran said he was sick in the head when he was arrested and now Anita is running with the insanity defense, it can't be coincidental.  I'm beginning to wonder if on say May 11, Anita didn't sit Joran down for a heart-to-heart/alibi strategy session.  Probably something along the lines of "Ok, son, the evil Americans have tried to set you up again, forcing you to take some money against your will.  You should probably take a long holiday away from Aruba, but we do need to discuss something first.  The numbers are against you, it's certain you will be caught again after you kill some other girl.  When it happens you tell them you're sick in the head.  I will do the same, I've even set it up so that it will appear that you've an appointment for some in-patient treatment in a tough facility in Holland. Of course you don't have to get help, you don't need it, you just have a couple minor problems you will work through. Now if we both stick to the story, we'll quickly have you back home and living your life as you deserve to...free".  Anita knows everything, IMO, she's as deeply involved with every single one of his and his father's evil activities as they are, she forfeited her right to any sympathy from me the 2nd I saw her.

[texasmom]

Thanks Klaas!

[can]

To all the MONKEY DAD'S - Happy Fathers Day tomorrow.

God bless Dave and Mr. Flores and all Dad's who have lost their children.

[Blonde]

johan555 is was who I was talking about

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RVVYF5Pu5ccJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Faction%3Dprofile%3Bu%3D3710%3Bsa%3DshowPosts+Johan555&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

[the big hammer]

Matchstick Men

canoworms writes: "...Dutchlady was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability. Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs" something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves..."

The phrase comes from a song by Brian & Michael: "And he left us matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs. He left us kids on the corner of the street that were sparking clogs."

It's significance was this: Dutchlady researched and found that Paulus occasionally played in a marching band, and she found/saw records of songs that Paulus' band played.  One of them was this.  Based on this, she viewed the "matchstick men" as representing the hieroglyphs found in caves on Aruba -- as in the Fontein Cave -- and this buttressed her view that Natalee's place of resting was (and is) an underground cavern or vault.

.

[Blonde]

johan555 is was who I was talking about

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RVVYF5Pu5ccJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Faction%3Dprofile%3Bu%3D3710%3Bsa%3DshowPosts+Johan555&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

HET ALTRECHT COMPLEX IN DEN DOLDER:


Noord kant :


Zuidkant:


Gesloten afdeling :


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg370343#msg370343

[klaasend]

OMG

Texasmom

http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/18842-accidente-den-white-house-na-moko.html

Accidente den White House na Moko      Print       E-mail
Saturday, 19 June 2010 16:07



Un cliente cu a bay haci amor den White House Apartments situa na Moko 30 a haye den un accidente. No den camber, sino pafor ora cu ela bay reverse su auto. Den e maniobra e homber a dal den porta di e apartament. E empleada a bay atende cune riba e desgracia aki pero e homber a reacciona masha agresivo. Cu palabranan insultante el a menasa e empleada pa e habri e porta na bon sino e lo a basha e porta abou. Polisnan a tuma keho di e apartament y a keda di bay investiga e caso pa por pone e cliente paga pa e daño cometi. E motibo dicon e cliente a sali cu tanto rabia asina no ta conoci.


Through translator:

accidente in white house at moko

 print e-mail saturday, 19 june 2010 16:07 album.jpg

 one cliente cu owing to bay haci affection in white house apartments situa at moko 30 owing to haye in one accidente. not in camber, but abroad hour cu ela bay reverse her car. in the maniobra he owing to strike in door by the apartament. the empleada owing to bay atende cune on the desgracia here but he owing to reacciona very aggressive. cu words insultante past owing to menasa the empleada for her open the door at good but the will owing to pour the door below. polisnan did take complaint by the apartament y owing to remain by bay investiga the caso before can laydown the cliente pay for her damage cometi. the motibo dicon the cliente owing to depart cu tanto angry so do not conoci. album.jpg come across

[Blonde]

johan555
Scared Monkey

Posts: 2943


          Re: Natalee Case Discussion #747 4/11 -
« Reply #262 on: April 13, 2008, 02:55:35 PM »   

I met this boy last week in Den Dolder ,his name is Amar   ( he is also from Aruba ) and he told me that he stays in "De WIER "  that is a semi closed unit  on the Altrecht complex .
He told me also that Joran is there also .They can go outside 1 hour a day .
 this is Amar:

[klaasend]

Matchstick Men

canoworms writes: "...Dutchlady was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability. Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs" something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves..."

The phrase comes from a song by Brian & Michael: "And he left us matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs. He left us kids on the corner of the street that were sparking clogs."

It's significance was this: Dutchlady researched and found that Paulus occasionally played in a marching band, and she found/saw records of songs that Paulus' band played.  One of them was this.  Based on this, she viewed the "matchstick men" as representing the hieroglyphs found in caves on Aruba -- as in the Fontein Cave -- and this buttressed her view that Natalee's place of resting was (and is) an underground cavern or vault.

.

Joran and his friend Michael (the one who was seen with the belt around his neck), in a cave in Aruba.  Likely someplace they went to party.  This looks to be late 2004 or early 2005 prior to Natalee:

[San]

Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB.  
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop.  

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes?  
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.

If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.

[msmarple]

Granted, there are many hiding places for a body on Aruba, not to mention the ocean.

BUT - I continue to believe that Natalee’s remains are not any where recoverable.

Paulus said “No body, no case” within 24 hours of her disappearance – when it was barely news yet on Aruba. I don’t think he would have made such a statement unless he was certain that there would be no body.

(And how would he know there's no body? Ah, there's the rub.)

Again, I would dearly love to be wrong.

[msmarple]

San said:
If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.

* * *
San - Do you think he wanted a murder that would "make the news" enough, to risk spending time in a Peruvian prison? He was taking one heck of a gamble with his own life.

I don't think the murder showed enough premeditation for that. He might be dumber than dirt, but planning to leave her in his hotel room, his own shirt on top of her ...

Robbery, maybe sex - yes, premeditated.

[carpe noctem]

I got him a tie this year!

[San]

All killers think if they hide a body good enough it will never be found.

[klaasend]

Has this been posted?

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/ruman-di-natalee-no-ta-kere-loke-joran-kier-papia-awor-di-%E2%80%9Caruba%E2%80%9D/

Ruman Di Natalee No Ta Kere Loke Joran Kier Papia Awor Di “ARUBA”

Publication: Diasabra, 19 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Matt Holloway a bisa cu lo mas importante awor ta pa Joran van der Sloot keda pa resto di su bida den prison!  Esey ta loke e ruman di Natalee, a declara den un entrevista cu People Magazine.

   E revista tabata na Aruba tambe.  Nan a busca contacto cu varios personahe cu den 2005 tabata involucra den e investigacion riba e isla.

   Algun periodista cu a bin bek Aruba, a keda sorprendi cu specificamente famia Kalpoe na un forma asombroso, a dicidi na “keda keto” y no papia nada!  Net awor cu e chens tey pa e famia mustra cu nan ta inocente, nan a opta pa keda keto.

   Segun Matt Holloway, e ta kere cu Joran no tin nada mas di bisa di e caso di Natalee, aunke awor den prison na Peru e ta yora y haci comosifuera cu e ta ‘cla pa papia”.

   E ta djis kere, cu Joran ta tratando di haya un sentencia mas leve.  Joran ta profundamente hinca den e asesinato di Stephany Flores, y kizas e kier usa un crimen pa negocia e otro.

    Kico Joran lo bay papia awor?  Ningun hende lo bay kere!  Aruba ya caba a fada di su mentiranan.  Anto ainda e mama ta bisa cu ta un ‘complot’ tin contra Joran?

   E recien extorsion riba famia Holloway mes ta un prueba di tur esaki.  Pero tog e famia ta kere cu e storia di Joran haci na TV Hulandes na 2008, unda el a bisa cu Natalee a muri riba beach, y cu hunto cu un amigo a bente den laman, lo ta esun berdad.

   Nan no ta kere cu Natalee ta dera den fundeshi di un cas of otro lugar.  Ya caba e famia a acepta cu Natalee no tey mas, y nan ta spera cu ningun hende mas pasa den mesun tragedia di perde un ser stima.

Through translator:

brother by natalee do not believe thing joran be willing to talk at present by “aruba” publication: saturday, 19 june 2010. categoria: general oranjestad (aan):

 matt holloway owing to say cu will more important at present is before joran van der sloot remain before remainder by her life in gaol! esey is thing the brother by natalee, owing to declara in one interview cu people magazine. the magazine was at aruba also. they owing to busca contacto cu several personahe cu in 2005 was involucra in the investigacion on the island. some journalist cu owing to come bek aruba, owing to remain sorprendi cu specificamente family kalpoe at one form amazing, owing to dicidi at “keda keto” y not talk nothing! just at present cu the chens tey for her family indicate cu they're inocente, they owing to opta before remain keto. according matt holloway, the is believe cu joran not have nothing more by say by the caso by natalee, although at present in gaol at peru the is cry y haci comosifuera cu the is ‘cla before papia”. the is exclusively believe, cu joran is tratando by attain one sentencia more leve. joran is profundamente hinca in the asesinato by stephany flores, y kizas the be willing to using one crimen before negocia the another. kico joran will bay talk at present? neither person will bay believe! aruba already come to anend owing to fada by her mentiranan. then still the mam is say cu is one ‘complot’ have contra joran? the recien extorsion on family holloway self is one proof by all this. but tog the family is believe cu the storia by joran haci at tv dutch at 2008, where past owing to say cu natalee owing to die on beach, y cu together cu one amigo owing to bente in sea, will is esun berdad. they do not believe cu natalee is bury in fundeshi by one cas or another lugar. already come to anend the family owing to acepta cu natalee not tey more, y they're wait for cu neither person more happen in same tragedy by lose one being love.

[msmarple]

Ted Koppel's son died (May 31) - Just yesterday, June 18, the NYC Medical Examiner ruled that he died of an overdose.

"The New York City medical examiner's office said on Friday that 40-year-old Andrew Koppel died from a combination of alcohol, heroin, cocaine, painkillers and Levamisole, a druliveg used to cut other drugs."

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2010/06/19/koppel-overdose-accidental-son.html#ixzz0rL9yttH4

* * *
Michael Jackson died on June 25; his tox report was not announced until Aug. 7.

* * *
My point is posting these is that Peru might only now be getting toxology reports back. I have read that it takes at least 3 weeks and usually longer. I think part of the problem is that they have to run so many tests.

And also my point is that if Stephany was drugged ...

[San]

San said:
If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.

* * *
San - Do you think he wanted a murder that would "make the news" enough, to risk spending time in a Peruvian prison? He was taking one heck of a gamble with his own life.

I don't think the murder showed enough premeditation for that. He might be dumber than dirt, but planning to leave her in his hotel room, his own shirt on top of her ...

Robbery, maybe sex - yes, premeditated.

Yes msmarple I believe he wanted something big.  Same crime, same age.

Isn't Joran's life about gambling.

msmarple do you think if Joran would have escaped to a country where the Dutch would be supported that they would have turned Joran over to Peru or would they turn him over to the Netherlands.

[seemeatthebeach]

 Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.
3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........

[msmarple]

I forgot to add in my post above re. tox reports - I hope the police in Peru are testing the drinks left in the room (I think there was some soda). Even residue is testable.

It has occurred to me that he may have drugged whatever Steph was drinking, but she didn't drink much of it.

It was reported that some of her wounds were defensive; clearly she had time to fight back.

[San]

Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........

He would have been more thankful if you sent him the money you loser.