Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[San]

I forgot to add in my post above re. tox reports - I hope the police in Peru are testing the drinks left in the room (I think there was some soda). Even residue is testable.

It has occurred to me that he may have drugged whatever Steph was drinking, but she didn't drink much of it.

It was reported that some of her wounds were defensive; clearly she had time to fight back.

I remember hearing about the soda left in the room.

[carpe noctem]

Dude!

[msmarple]

San - I think he might have been sent to The Netherlands, assuming The Netherlands wanted him .

But then again, politics exist in South America. Also, a man killing a woman of good standing with his bare hands, and also with very "red hands" (as in virtually caught red-handed on camera) is very poorly regarded.

So it's hard to say. I will say that I was startled when he didn't seem to head to Suriname, although I am not sure what kind of relationship Suriname and The NL have nowdays.

[twinkiesmom]

Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB. 
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop. 

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes? 
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.

Joran is a legend in his own mind.

He intended a softer kill and disappearing the body.  He intended to put some time between their discovery of his involvement and reviewing of the tapes so that they would be erased before the evidence was retrieved.

Joran thinks he's a more organized killer than he really is...

[klaasend]

REMINDER WHY THEY ARE ALL GUILTY!  This was before they realized saying they ALL had sex with her probably wasn't a good idea.

[klaasend]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

[littletxlady]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?

[klaasend]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?

Very close, yes

[littletxlady]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?

Very close, yes

 Thanks, I was never really sure about that

[SuzieQ]

This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.

[Anna]

I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

[klaasend]

Thanks SuzieQ!

Aerial of the Lighthouse area showing some similar rock formations:

[Anna]

[
Joran is a legend in his own mind.

He intended a softer kill and disappearing the body.  He intended to put some time between their discovery of his involvement and reviewing of the tapes so that they would be erased before the evidence was retrieved.

Joran thinks he's a more organized killer than he really is...

^^^This!^^^

[SunnyinTX]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

So do I....and your theory is what I also believed then and now....

[Blonde]

This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.

Was this pond ever checked?

[Anna]

Is Geraldo the only coverage this evening?

Anyone know?

.

[Lifesong]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Was the shallow grave that Tim Miller/TX Equusearch found near the Lighthouse/Painted Rock area? 

I'm thinking that it was but I really don't remember the location as much as the dogs hitting on it and Tim's opinion that she had been there in that shallow grave for a short time before being moved.

[Kat_Gram]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/16/205823/913
..........

[klaasend]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Was the shallow grave that Tim Miller/TX Equusearch found near the Lighthouse/Painted Rock area? 

I'm thinking that it was but I really don't remember the location as much as the dogs hitting on it and Tim's opinion that she had been there in that shallow grave for a short time before being moved.

NO, that was at the other end of the island, closer to Arikok

[carpe noctem]

ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2