Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Alabamaanna]

The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.

I was told that Aruba and the US only have an extradition treaty when it comes to drug related cases and not extortion for instance.

I don't know either, but I doubt that Joran will be back in Aruba for a very long time, if ever.  If the US ever extradites him, it will be from Peru.  If he lives that long.

[Anna]

So it is this Dutch reporter John van den Heuvel who thinks Joran will be a free man soon?  Because of procedural errors?

And further he is confident that the FBI "lured" Joran to Peru?  I wonder if he also buys Jorans theory that the FBI needed Peru because it does not have extradition with other countries when in fact it does with every country in the Americas?

Is he really that dense or what is his problem exactly?  Is that the general sentiment in The Netherlands?  I find that hard to believe but wonder why this reporter is saying such things in the first place.

[DPJ]

Get the Peruvian government to cave in to what?

Allowing Joran to get away with cold-blooded murder when they have an airtight case against him?

They'll be looking for procedural errors and technicalities.

That will stall procedures and keep Joran in the spotlight and more or less safe.
The Dutch most read paper The Telegraaf seems to have chosen the side that Joran has been set up and one of the most watched TV channels RTL seem to follow that path.

From what I've been told consular and legal aid have been dispatched and Peru will look after the sporter with great care, in order not to suffer harsh criticism from the EU.

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.

[mojo]

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.

we've already been here 5 years.

[Tamikosmom]

The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.

I was told that Aruba and the US only have an extradition treaty when it comes to drug related cases and not extortion for instance.

Jo-An

I am not doubting you but ... I am confused.  In the press release from the FBI ... the implication was that Joran fled unexpectedly to Peru while the extortion case was being developed.

Anita claimed that according to Joran's own words ... he fled Aruba to avoid commitment to a mental institute.

Janet

[Jo-An]

So it is this Dutch reporter John van den Heuvel who thinks Joran will be a free man soon?  Because of procedural errors?

And further he is confident that the FBI "lured" Joran to Peru?  I wonder if he also buys Jorans theory that the FBI needed Peru because it does not have extradition with other countries when in fact it does with every country in the Americas?

Is he really that dense or what is his problem exactly?  Is that the general sentiment in The Netherlands?  I find that hard to believe but wonder why this reporter is saying such things in the first place.

No, Joran's lawyer thinks Joran will be a free man soon.

John van den Heuvel is the most famous crime reporter in the Netherlands after Peter R de Vries.
He sounded like he didn't want to say too much about it yet, but he and his team investigated the extortion thoroughly, he said.
Maybe he will report on it sometime in the future.

And like I said before, the US and Aruba only have an extradition treaty for drug cases.

And the "general" sentiment in the Netherlands is that they want to see Joran hang for what he did.


I'm off to bed now! Have to get up in 6 hrs...

[mojo]

Janet, he's had days in his cell with nothing to do but try to follow his case and think up new lies. i'll give him credit, the FBI lured me to Peru is a good one.

[DPJ]

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.

we've already been here 5 years.

Very very true and I think our time here will be a lot easier than Joran's time in Castro Castro.

[JE]

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speld.nl%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-bekent-moord-op-kennedy%2F&sl=nl&tl=en

the translation sucks but the sarcasm is universal.

Latest news is that the rat that was forced to share a cell with Joranus will sue for emotional damage. Also the rat will sue for an attempt on its life because of nearly suffocating as a result of the toilet being stuffed with wet newspapers.

In all honesty if this whole situation was not as sad as it is it would almost be a hit comedy show. I wonder if there is any sane person in the world that believes JVDS and his change the story trick that by now is getting extremely stale.

The worst punishement the world could unleash on him now would be total radio and tv silence. He will not crack because of legal issues but he will crack if his totaly inasane opinions and stories are no longer voiced to the public by means of the media.

One last thought, why does he even need a lawyer. I don't know of any lawyers that are more accomplished at lying, cheating and deceiving in order to get their clients oof the hook as the client in this case.

Oh well, maybe he will bill his lawyer for tuition

[Anna]

Joran was being sought on an INTERPOL warrant after he fled Aruba. 

That has nothing to do with extradition treaties, etc. as they are internationally recognized.

I don't think Peru dives a flying fig what the EU thinks about anything.

[Blonde]

Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.

He was even able to manipulate Greta S. last time around.
He is a professional. He really gets to females.

I hope PERU is able to break him down into the little man he really is.

 

I am quoting  michelled at BFN ..
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return

I have said it before but I just liked the way SHE said it today.. BUT I must give her credit for it because it is right to do so.
 and as johanna 555 "little girl" at BFN demands it.. I guess he/she lurks here these days.

How do you get into BFN we all got banned Just asking

[Anna]

So neither The Netherlands nor Aruba recognize Interpol warrants? 

That's very interesting and surprising to say the least.

[Ono]

msmarple - nice job commenting on the Peru website 

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Felcomercio.pe%2Fnoticia%2F498451%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-se-nego-declarar-ante-juez-crimen-stephany-flores&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Yes!  Kudos~

[MisGivings]

THE STEPHANY FLORES CASE

De Telegraaf Interview - June, 2010

In the interview Joran Van der Sloot claims that he was scared and confused during his interrogation and that he wanted to leave. "If you sign these papers you will be extradited to the Netherlands..." Van der Sloot said he was told by Peruvian authorities. "In my blind panic I signed everything, but I didn't know what it all said."

"I was tricked into it," said Van der Sloot about the killing of Stephany Flores.

"How exactly all this happened, I will tell you later."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5507588/joran_van_der_sloot_to_dutch_reporter.html


THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

A Current Affair Interview - September, 2005

Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that

http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm

Gosh, Joran, you aren't used to being on the other end of trickery, eh?
Just another friggin' lie.

[Blonde]

Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.

CNN June 11, 2010


In an interview with CNN, Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession that he killed Flores was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

But van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has told CNN that he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession, because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla said Peruvian investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

"There has to be authorization from the judge to open the laptop," he said.

But already authorities have gathered significant evidence, Canlla said.

Blood stains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found blood stains on the victim's clothes, and we found blood stains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

Police said in a statement Thursday that van der Sloot presumably attacked Flores to rob her of the money she had won gambling at a casino. The two met playing poker on May 27 and had several encounters before driving together to the hotel where van der Sloot was staying on May 30.

After killing her, the police statement said, van der Sloot cleaned the room in an attempt to hide evidence of the crime, changed clothes and fled with Flores' money, bank cards and black Jeep.

Police said evidence against van der Sloot includes his confession, forensic data, surveillance videos and fingerprints lifted from the crime scene and Flores' Jeep.

Altez, van der Sloot's lawyer, claims he has found indications that the handling of the evidence was tainted, especially the way the body was handled during the crime scene investigation.

But Canlla said there were no irregularities in the investigation.

Van der Sloot, 22, was arrested in Chile on June 4 and returned to Peru the next day.

Canlla said police will likely accuse van der Sloot of committing homicide, robbery and obstructing justice. The two drivers who took him across the border to Chile will also be accused of obstructing justice, he said.

While van der Sloot was never charged in connection with Holloway's disappearance in 2005, U.S. authorities filed extortion and wire fraud charges against the Dutch man this week.

An Interpol document says van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he allegedly tried to extort money from Holloway's mother.

A federal law enforcement agent told CNN that a representative for Natalee Holloway's mother who paid $25,000 for information on the whereabouts of her daughter's remains last month was an undercover FBI agent.

Van der Sloot said he would reveal the location of the body and the circumstances surrounding Holloway's death for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham arranged for a meeting where van der Sloot was paid $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer, a source familiar with the case said.

The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

Interpol documents show that the $15,000 was transferred to a personal bank account in the Netherlands.

It's unclear whether that money paid for van der Sloot's trip to Colombia and to Peru.

In exchange for the money, van der Sloot showed the representative a house where supposedly Holloway's remains were, according to the document. When records showed that the house had not yet been built at the time of her disappearance, van der Sloot admitted that he lied, Interpol said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3

[klaasend]

I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

[Ono]

Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!

Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.

If Peru caves in to Aruba or the NL when it comes to this monster the world will be outraged.  Joran will be a dead man even faster. 

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch.  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge.  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Help!  Klaas ... my comment submitted to the last Natalee Holloway FP blog went "poof".

Thanks

Janet

Janet:   

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.

[klaasend]

I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Also RITA COSBY will be on the Dana Pretzer show at 9pm ET tonight!  There will be others as well but I don't have the entire lineup yet!

[JE]

THE STEPHANY FLORES CASE


 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that

http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm

Gosh, Joran, you aren't used to being on the other end of trickery, eh?
Just another friggin' lie.

This is what pisses me off (the bolded part) As if the world is eagerly awaiting words of wisdom coming from the mouth of that worm, but the great Joranus does not feel the world is ready or worthy to be enlightened by his views.

Reality check: The world and its population don't care about your fantasies. You did the crime you do the time.

[Ono]

Would You Help Your Kid Get Away With Murder?
posted Monday, June 21, 2010

For some parents, blood is thicker than water -- even when it comes to violent crime.



How far would you go to protect your children? What if they were involved in a crime -- and that crime was murder?

Even with the mountain of evidence against Joran van der Sloot -- including video footage and a confession -- his mother, Anita, still believes her son is innocent; that he is, in her words, "not a murderer." In an e-mail to Joran's former girlfriend, Anita wrote, "[Joran] is not the monster they like the world to see .... It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."  Before his death earlier this year, Joran's father, Paul, also stood by his son -- some say even going so far as to pay off the authorities after Joran was accused of murdering Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.

Casey Anthony, the Florida mom accused of murdering her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, can also count on her parents for support. Both George and Cindy Anthony regularly make public appearances defending their daughter's innocence. And they allegedly changed their stories and possibly tampered with evidence ....

This brand of family solidarity is not uncommon. In addition to protesting their child's innocence (whether they really believe it themselves or not), the parents of criminals often offer various levels of help, says Robin Sax, a former Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney. The first kind of assistance, says Sax, involves knowing about a crime but not telling the authorities. The second is refusing to cooperate with the authorities even when they have information about the crime. And then there are the parents who actually lie and cover up the crime to keep their child out of prison. Still, despite all the possibilities, Sax says that many parents actually do the right thing: They turn in their child.

If a member of your immediate family told you they'd killed someone, would you help them cover up their crime -- or would you turn them in to the police?

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/06/van_der_sloot_casey_anthony_mo.php

Anita may change her tune when Joran throws her and dead daddy Paulus under the bus.
If Joran thinks he will get extradited to a Netherland's prison (I don't think that would occur even if he did) for the truth about the cover-up in Aruba, IMO he very well might turn on his mother. The reality that mother isn't coming to his rescue this time could enrage him, especially if she played any part of the cover-up of Natalee's disappearance and death. His thinking will be she has to be punished as well.

Lol-yeah-sort of like maybe he'll wake up and realize it's no fun being the one left 'holding the bag' ...