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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #842 6/27/10 - 7/14/10  (Read 373004 times)
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msmarple
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« Reply #760 on: June 30, 2010, 11:52:04 PM »

Today is a month after Stephany's dead. I believe that today was very hard for Mr Flores to go to the PLE to give his statement.....In Peru is common to remember a deceased person  a month and a year after somebody's dead with a ceremony at church.

The 30-day memorial is a common practice in the Catholic Church here. I learned of it when I lived in New England (Connecticut) though I never observed it in the Midwest. They call it "Month's Mind" and have a Mass said for the deceased person.


I also am familiar with this. It's very good, I think, just the closest family and friends, and not so much else to worry about/deal with. Especially in a situation like this (sudden unexpected death, young person) where pure shock is a factor.

In any event, those first days usually are a blur. Calm grief is strangely consoling.

No telling how long it was before Beth reached that point.
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Why did they have to disappear her body?

Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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msmarple
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« Reply #761 on: July 01, 2010, 12:03:43 AM »

Sorry for the near-double post above. The server made me do it - server interuptus.

* * *
Memorable Quotes
(Running Llist – Additions WELCOME)

No body, no case
(Paulus van der Sloot, “poolside chat” with J2K, afternoon/evening 05/30/2005)

How did you get here so fast
(Paulus to “the Alabama posse,” early a.m. 05/31 2005)

You do not have jurisdiction
(Paulus to “the Alabama posse,” early a.m. 05/31 2005 - Deepak quoting Paulus, Deepak PV statement, 06/13/2005)

I’ll have to eat my frosted flakes first
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Beth & Jug, 8:00 am or later that a.m., 05/31/2005)

Well how much money you got?
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Dave, 06/01/2005)

Well, just go on down to Carlos 'N Charlie's ... Watch your drink. That's one thing you better do is watch your drink
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Dave, 06/01/2005)

We can’t book people when we want… (like) a bunch of cowboys
(Karin Jannsen, Lead prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, 06/03/05)
I could not find “rush in like cowboys” - msmarple

Something bad happened
(Deputy Chief Gerold Dompig to AP, attributing to “one of three young men,” 06/12/2005)

I called Deepak and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her
(Joran PV statement, 06/13/2005)

Joran van der Sloot is a disturbed/sick person, he has admitted that he is in the care of a psychologist and that he hits his brother
(Deepak PV statement, 6/16/2005)

To your question how Natalee was that night in “Carlos & Charlies”, I can say the following. She danced beautifully, I had lied in my previous statement about her being unsteady on her feet when she stepped off the podium/stage. That was beside the truth. She had a steady walk
(Deepak PV statement, 06/22/2005)

Satish, why you guys lie to Mama?
(Nadia Ramirez, 2K’s mother, re. “Holiday Inn story,” to Greta, 06/24/2005)

Your own father, unbelievable
(Deepak to Joran, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)

If they find that girl, then they will see that *hit
(Joran to 2K, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)

They're going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl
(Deepak to Joran, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)

I am being repeatedly asked the same questions and I am sick and tired of that.
(Deepak PV statement – 06/30/2005)

This is a question of semantics. It's been a problem since day one
(Ruben Trapenberg, explaining that “formal charges” could be filed “as soon as Monday,” although Karin Janssen had told reporters that J2K had been charged with murder since their arrest, CDNN 07/01/2005)

Come on, we all lie. We all lie. As big people I know that I lie sometimes
(Nadia Ramirez, 2K’s mother, on Dr. Phil show, 09/05/2005)

One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that
(Joran, A Current Affair, 09/26/2005)

… if you keep acting like this, Mr. Twitty, you know, we’re going to quit
(Jug quoting Karin Janssen, to Greta, 09/28/2005)

 I mean it's happened probably 20, 20 times nothing has ever gone wrong
(Joran to Greta, 03/03/2006)

If he gets in trouble later, he gives his concerned mother three thick kisses
(Interview by Floor Ligtvoet, printed in BN DeStem, 03/30/2006)

A delicious adolescent, he is simply a delicious youth!
(sometimes translated/quoted as “boy” and “sporter” instead of “youth”)
(Anita, from the same BN DeStem article, 03/30/2006)

msmarple includes this one because, well, just because:
We have no alien necessary that ounce come say how unsafely our island is. An Aruban who such call things, calls I to a country traitor, lets stand to an alien who gives a bad name to Aruba abroad. That is still more terrible
(Rudy Croes, MEP of Justice, 11/16/2006)

Why does this *hit always happen to me?
(Joran to Patrick, Peter de Vries tape, aired 02/03/2008)

I am a sporter
(Anita, quoting Joran, to Greta, 02/12/2008)

The effort was superb, but the game was fixed
(“private eye,” Natalee’s uncle, re. recovery of the findings of the Persistence ocean search, posted at SM 04/09/2008)

And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran
(Beth to Greta, 11/19/2008)

So much bad luck sometimes
(Joran, text message to Melody Granadillo, est. 06/03/2010 – “the day of his arrest”)

This isn't a coincidence, this murder
(Ricardo Flores, Stephany's father, to reporters in Lima, Peru, 06/04/2010)

I did not want to do it. {The girl saw private things.} She had no right. I approached her and she was scared. We discussed it and she tried to escape, and I took her neck and hit her
In some quotes, the bracketed phrase is stated as The girl intruded into my private life
(Joran’s “confession,” quoted by BNO News and La Republic, 06/07/2005; a confession he unsuccessfully has attempted to retract)

Van der Sloot said he was sick in the head and had not tasted food in two days
(Google translation from Spanish:
“Van der Sloot dijo sentirse mal de la cabeza y que no había probado alimentos en dos días.”
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/494308/vea-primeros-minutos-joran-van-der-sloot-carcel 06/13/2010)

(I included the above because “mal de la cabeza” is not the way one refers to a “headache” in Spanish, and we have the later statement from Anita, below.)

My son is sick in his head
(Anita, interview for De Telegraaf, published 06/20/2010)

* * *
Anyone have more information on the following? --

You just don't understand our legal system
(Arlene Ellis-Schipper – Date?)
I could not find this one. I tried several name spellings. Any ideas?

Girls just get lost sometimes
(Angelina?? I don’t know anything about this one ?? )

That Mother, she just wouldn't go away!
(Joran? Anita? to ? re. Beth, date ? - can anyone find this one ?? I thought it was in the Peter dV tape but couldn’t find it)
 
They didn't behave like a normal family with a missing daughter
(Joran? Anita? date?)

Aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee
(Glenda, aka Julia Renfroe - do we have a date on that?)

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Why did they have to disappear her body?

Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

My usual avatar is an orchis simia (monkey orchid) plant.
Tylergal
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« Reply #762 on: July 01, 2010, 12:17:52 AM »

I disagree.  I think Mr. Flores "gets it".  His daughter is dead.
Peru has said that Joran will serve his sentence in Peru and nowhere else.

I think Senor Flores gets it.  I think what he is saying is for public consumption, and to put a nice face on the justice system in Peru, as well as the cell where Joran is confined now.  The manfriend in the adjacent cell who has befriended him may be his BFFN but not forever.  He may be the catalyst to get answers for Beth.  Who knows how much is being paid to this "hit man" to gain favor with the justice system and a nice deposit in his bank account.  If he is a drug "lord," sotaspeak, he will do whatever it takes to glorify himself and get the best deal he can, and of course, he is not immune to receiving payment for deeds done for 'the man.'
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jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #763 on: July 01, 2010, 12:18:39 AM »


The FBI didn't initiate the extortion. It was Joran who contacted Beth thru someone. Else it would been entrapment.
  
Yet Joran tried to make it seem like the FBI set him up. He thinks he's so smart.

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Anna
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« Reply #764 on: July 01, 2010, 12:29:50 AM »

Wreck,
Agree.  I have watched everything I can find on this and Mr. Flores has never said he was just fine with Joran serving his sentence anywhere except Peru.  All I have seen him say in this regard was words to the effect "No, it's in the hands of justice now" meaning he did NOT want to talk about that.

Same for the Peruvian president.  He has only made ONE statement and it was that Joran's trial would have to be completed before any kind of extradition could be considered.  Sentencing is an integral part of that trial, lol.

But I could see the FBI having Joran tried now and returned to Peru after his trial because of the loss of witnesses over the long sentence Joran is expected to serve.  Some people involved may not be alive in 35 years.

Noriega was recently extradited to France I believe it was directly from his jail sentence here.  Sometimes they even try the person in absentia which may have been his case.  Hold the trial without the person physically present.  I don't think that is allowed in this country, however but I am not certain of that.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Lifesong
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« Reply #765 on: July 01, 2010, 12:34:49 AM »

Connecting more dots -


Salamander Holding Co.        


Suite#: 405 - 406
Contact: Mr. Irwin Hagedoorn        
Phone: 588-2743        
Fax: 588-2560

http://www.sunplaza-aruba.com/directory/Salamander_Holding_Co.-33.html

Wow.  And yikes.


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Dana
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« Reply #766 on: July 01, 2010, 12:41:45 AM »

Well Greta just did a quick blurb on the indictment of Joran, relating it was due to his effort to extort 250K from Beth. Then she went on to say with emphasis "why the FBI took so long we don't know" with real emphasis in the tone of her voice.......

Obviously that whipping post isn't going away anytime soon.

You know Greta and Dr. Baden and Steph Watts are in big trouble over the autopsy of Drew Peterson's
wife that died in the bathtub.

How so Magnolia? I must have missed that one.......is that why Watts no longer works there?


I think Watts was let go for some other reason.  This is just coming out in the pre-trial talks
of the Drew Peterson case.  Check the Huffington Post.  I read it on AOL news several days ago.
Seems Steph Watts wrote phone numbers of the guy who films Girls Gone Wild on the autopsy
notes and they filmed the autopsy and showed part of it on Greta's show.


Steph has had some credability problems after he left ABC too
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/abc/steph_watts_responds_i_have_never_had_a_nose_job_113679.asp

Seems like he has a nose for the news ??  Smile

Greta stopped doing crime stories quite quickly too, but filming a autopsy might be a even bigger boo boo then saying she tended to belive Joran .

Greta had Joe Francis on her show many times, could never figure out what that obsession was about either.

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jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #767 on: July 01, 2010, 12:43:48 AM »

Can you imagine the media frenzy if Joran is extradited to the US?
I'm sure he would be thrilled to be out of the cold jail in Peru.
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wreck
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« Reply #768 on: July 01, 2010, 12:49:54 AM »

Can you imagine the media frenzy if Joran is extradited to the US?
I'm sure he would be thrilled to be out of the cold jail in Peru.
Yeah, I mentioned earlier........... I DON'T want him here in the U.S. It would be MUCH too cushy for him.
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Dana
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« Reply #769 on: July 01, 2010, 12:52:39 AM »

Can you imagine the media frenzy if Joran is extradited to the US?
I'm sure he would be thrilled to be out of the cold jail in Peru.
Yeah, I mentioned earlier........... I DON'T want him here in the U.S. It would be MUCH too cushy for him.

He wont go to the states, but it would be funny to see him in the same California prison as Charles Manson, even better if he put him in the same cell with Charlie
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Magnolia
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« Reply #770 on: July 01, 2010, 12:56:28 AM »

Can you imagine the media frenzy if Joran is extradited to the US?
I'm sure he would be thrilled to be out of the cold jail in Peru.
Yeah, I mentioned earlier........... I DON'T want him here in the U.S. It would be MUCH too cushy for him.

He wont go to the states, but it would be funny to see him in the same California prison as Charles Manson, even better if he put him in the same cell with Charlie

I think it would be better if he were in a cell with Bubba in Alabama, but I prefer him stay in Peru.
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Dana
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« Reply #771 on: July 01, 2010, 12:57:46 AM »

Can you imagine the media frenzy if Joran is extradited to the US?
I'm sure he would be thrilled to be out of the cold jail in Peru.
Yeah, I mentioned earlier........... I DON'T want him here in the U.S. It would be MUCH too cushy for him.

He wont go to the states, but it would be funny to see him in the same California prison as Charles Manson, even better if he put him in the same cell with Charlie

I think it would be better if he were in a cell with Bubba in Alabama, but I prefer him stay in Peru.

Yep Castro Castro is the best place for Joran to drop the soap at

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Tylergal
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« Reply #772 on: July 01, 2010, 12:58:35 AM »

Greta may/may not have issues with the Patterson case but be careful believing HuffPuff Post.  She has had her share of troubles with untruths.
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Dana
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« Reply #773 on: July 01, 2010, 01:02:57 AM »

Greta may/may not have issues with the Patterson case but be careful believing HuffPuff Post.  She has had her share of troubles with untruths.

Oh its posted many other places besides there, if true though it in my opinion will make her look very foolish
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Dana
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« Reply #774 on: July 01, 2010, 01:04:58 AM »

Greta may/may not have issues with the Patterson case but be careful believing HuffPuff Post.  She has had her share of troubles with untruths.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-24/news/ct-met-0625-drew-peterson-hearing-20100624_1_investigation-into-stacy-peterson-kathleen-savio-drew-peterson
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klaasend
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« Reply #775 on: July 01, 2010, 01:06:38 AM »

The stuff about Steph does not surprise me.  We know that Fox arranged for Baden to do the autopsy and we know it was filmed (I watched part of it). 
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Dana
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« Reply #776 on: July 01, 2010, 01:09:49 AM »

The stuff about Steph does not surprise me.  We know that Fox arranged for Baden to do the autopsy and we know it was filmed (I watched part of it). 

Watts is quoted saying he never filmed the body, but the judge is upset and Steph will be called to testify.
It will bring into question the journalistic integrity of many

It will be interesting for sure

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Anna
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« Reply #777 on: July 01, 2010, 01:13:35 AM »

Dana, I was just listening to the Podcast of your last program.

TJ Ward's part starts arounf 49:30.  He talks about Paulus vd Sloot and the Colombians starting around 58:55.  I find this very interesting as it has been a rumor for years and to finally hear it discussed in the open is very encouraging.

This is what I fear happened to Natalee's remains and why they may not be recoverable.  A professional disposal by Colombians at the behest of PvdS.

Thanks for having TJ on.  I have been wanting to know more about those tapes for a long time.  Now if we could just hear at least the one TJ has. . .

Wink
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #778 on: July 01, 2010, 01:14:00 AM »

The stuff about Steph does not surprise me.  We know that Fox arranged for Baden to do the autopsy and we know it was filmed (I watched part of it). 

Watts is quoted saying he never filmed the body, but the judge is upset and Steph will be called to testify.
It will bring into question the journalistic integrity of many

It will be interesting for sure



Yes it will be interesting!

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Dana
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« Reply #779 on: July 01, 2010, 01:15:56 AM »

Dana, I was just listening to the Podcast of your last program.

TJ Ward's part starts arounf 49:30.  He talks about Paulus vd Sloot and the Colombians starting around 58:55.  I find this very interesting as it has been a rumor for years and to finally hear it discussed in the open is very encouraging.

This is what I fear happened to Natalee's remains and why they may not be recoverable.  A professional disposal by Colombians at the behest of PvdS.

Thanks for having TJ on.  I have been wanting to know more about those tapes for a long time.  Now if we could just hear at least the one TJ has. . .

Wink

You are most welcome
Rob deserves most of the credit though as he helped arrange it

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