Lively Case Discussion #581 2/5 - 2/10/2007

[sb]

If we surmise that the traveling party in the grey car DID go to VDS home, Natalee would have had to have died in the home, whereby PVDS would have had to send Joran out to the interior of the island to quickly bury her... if that 6:30 cell call really DID happen.

See, this goes against almost all the ideas we have had. We have thought that if Natalee dies at PVDS home, he (Paulus) suddenly swings into action and becomes the traffic cop and makes a bunch of calls and arrangements to do away with the evidence.

To make a LONG scenario short, it seems to me that if she dies at PVDS home, she is NOT just buried in a spot on the island. PVDS would arrange something classier than that.

[bleachedblack]

Yes, I believe Koen is one year younger but not positive. Sanders is 2 years younger. They are both Jorans first cousins and best friends.

Last night I read where Paulus & Alexander are supposed to be first cousins.  I was mulling that over in my mind as to how that would make them related - thru which relative?  Paulus & ALex would have to have parents that were related to each other.

I had mentioned hearing this in the early days, i thought it had been information offered up by an Aruban poster here on this board. Klaas felt it was just one of the rumors....so infact it may be.

That's the thing, I don't know if it's true or not but I'd like to know.  Just haven't seen any proof.  It's a pretty big deal if they are indeed related, IMO.

If Alex G and Paulus were first cousins, would that make Koen/sanders and Joran second cousins? I have heard them refered to as being cousins ......but maybe if there is any truth in this they second cousins but cousins not-the-less.

In the early days of the case here at SM I didn't post much. Usually only in the topic threads. But I read alot.  

[SunFreak2]

Wasn't it one of our former posters that lived on Aruba that told us they were related?  

I don't remember.  You mean Arubagirl, Nativelingo or Bondia?

Geesh, so much misinformation from the Aruba spin machines.  It would be nice to find who started what so we could decide whether to even consider the info as remotely possible.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Except that PVDS has said that he would wake up the boys in the morning so that they would not miss the school bus.  If that was his usual habit, then he would have known by 6:20 AM that Joran was not going to school that Monday.  If Joran was too tired (or would not wake up) to go to school then who made the 6:30 AM phone call and why?  
O/T.  It is possible to locate, dig up and pump out a septic tank under 2 feet of snow and when the temperature is 6 degrees.   That was MY day.

Altmetroguy, I believe, has said the phone info we've seen was incomplete....call may have been made...to whom & whY??  Don't know.

OT Question....I think the tank can be located, dug up & pumped, even with 2 feet of snow, but whether a contractor who does this will come in 6 degree weather is questionable.  We've been there, but not in this type of weather.....and it's been a long while.  Wish you luck...

[bleachedblack]

sb wrote;

If we surmise that the traveling party in the grey car DID go to VDS home, Natalee would have had to have died in the home, whereby PVDS would have had to send Joran out to the interior of the island to quickly bury her... if that 6:30 cell call really DID happen.

i don't want to be contrary sb but something doesn't fit right about this scenario. I can't imagine Paulus sending joran back out at 6:30 to bury Natalee. It is getting light out at that hour.  Maybe he would have stashed her in a boat , to be driven out to sea later in the day......but it would have had to have been before sunrise.

[sb]

I can hardly keep my eyes open.  

I'm going to check out for the evening. Y'all keep it up!

[SunFreak2]

Yes, I believe Koen is one year younger but not positive. Sanders is 2 years younger. They are both Jorans first cousins and best friends.

Last night I read where Paulus & Alexander are supposed to be first cousins.  I was mulling that over in my mind as to how that would make them related - thru which relative?  Paulus & ALex would have to have parents that were related to each other.

I had mentioned hearing this in the early days, i thought it had been information offered up by an Aruban poster here on this board. Klaas felt it was just one of the rumors....so infact it may be.

That's the thing, I don't know if it's true or not but I'd like to know.  Just haven't seen any proof.  It's a pretty big deal if they are indeed related, IMO.

If Alex G and Paulus were first cousins, would that make Koen/sanders and Joran second cousins? I have heard them refered to as being cousins ......but maybe if there is any truth in this they second cousins but cousins not-the-less.

In the early days of the case here at SM I didn't post much. Usually only in the topic threads. But I read alot.  

They'd actually be first cousins, once removed.  Very confusing, but this may help to clarify.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cousin (a.k.a "first cousin")
Your first cousins are the people in your family who have two of the same grandparents as you. In other words, they are the children of your aunts and uncles.

Second Cousin
Your second cousins are the people in your family who have the same great-grandparents as you., but not the same grandparents.

Third, Fourth, and Fifth Cousins
Your third cousins have the same great-great-grandparents, fourth cousins have the same great-great-great-grandparents, and so on.

Removed
When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.

The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

[Leslie]

OT Question....I think the tank can be located, dug up & pumped, even with 2 feet of snow, but whether a contractor who does this will come in 6 degree weather is questionable.  We've been there, but not in this type of weather.....and it's been a long while.  Wish you luck...

I didn't think it was possible either but - that was my day - mission accomplished... but I am SO tired.

[bleachedblack]

Recalling the Sloots at Sasha's birthday party could lend some creedence to the possibility of their being related? They posed for and had pictures posted together as a group. Just wondering out loud....

[SunFreak2]

Yes, I believe Koen is one year younger but not positive. Sanders is 2 years younger. They are both Jorans first cousins and best friends.

Last night I read where Paulus & Alexander are supposed to be first cousins.  I was mulling that over in my mind as to how that would make them related - thru which relative?  Paulus & ALex would have to have parents that were related to each other.

I had mentioned hearing this in the early days, i thought it had been information offered up by an Aruban poster here on this board. Klaas felt it was just one of the rumors....so infact it may be.

That's the thing, I don't know if it's true or not but I'd like to know.  Just haven't seen any proof.  It's a pretty big deal if they are indeed related, IMO.

If Alex G and Paulus were first cousins, would that make Koen/sanders and Joran second cousins? I have heard them refered to as being cousins ......but maybe if there is any truth in this they second cousins but cousins not-the-less.

In the early days of the case here at SM I didn't post much. Usually only in the topic threads. But I read alot.  

They'd actually be first cousins, once removed.  Very confusing, but this may help to clarify.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cousin (a.k.a "first cousin")
Your first cousins are the people in your family who have two of the same grandparents as you. In other words, they are the children of your aunts and uncles.

Second Cousin
Your second cousins are the people in your family who have the same great-grandparents as you., but not the same grandparents.

Third, Fourth, and Fifth Cousins
Your third cousins have the same great-great-grandparents, fourth cousins have the same great-great-great-grandparents, and so on.

Removed
When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.

The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

Acckkkk - I still get it wrong.  They WOULD be second cousins.

[Leslie]

Maybe Anita and Renata(sp) are sisters?

[SunFreak2]

Maybe Anita and Renata(sp) are sisters?

Is Renata Mrs G?

Anyone have a picture of her?

[SunFreak2]

Maybe Anita and Renata(sp) are sisters?

OMG, if Renata is Mrs G who owns ChaCha Couture, how could she let her sister (Anita) out in that brown see thru shirt with her huge white Playtex bra showing?  ANita also did it with a red shirt too.      

[bleachedblack]

Maybe Anita and Renata(sp) are sisters?

OMG, if Renata is Mrs G who owns ChaCha Couture, how could she let her sister (Anita) out in that brown see thru shirt with her huge white Playtex bra showing?  ANita also did it with a red shirt too.      

     

[Leslie]

RENITA MARIA GOTTENBOS-VERBERNE

Renita/Anita ?

[dkpen]

Leslie you need a new avatar. Your's is still from Christmas.  hehe


Once removed, twice removed...all the same as first cousins, second cousins. Just a different way to say it.

My mothers brother is my uncle. His children are my first cousins. There children are my second cousins, second cousins children are my third cousin, and on down the line. Does not change the relationship in the generations at all.

Now my mothers first cousin, is my second cousin and my daughter is her third cousin. Their grand parents are my great-grandparents, and it makes them my daughters great great grandparents. But it goes along the lines of what I said above.

Anyways....I read on the forums in the early days that they were cousins by someone from Aruba. I believe it was Arubagirl from over at TripAdvisor. Then when viewing MySpace, Zorpia and other sites, Joran had Koen and Sanders pictures up in his "family" second and listed them both as cousins. Pictures then started to pop up with them all together younger. Since then they have been removed, unless someone saved them by chance.

[Lala'sMom]

Hugging Nemo...see you guys later.   Angie, I have lost your phone number again...

[klaasend]

This does not mean it's true but I found this at Websleuths.  I'm going to look at the AMW site next:

From Websleuths:

Sassi wrote:
Hi,

Did 'Belly Shots' change to 'Jelly Shots' on purpose? LOL

Last night after I watched Greta I was rather upset. Here they are asking the nation to boycott Aruba totally, and the whole truth is not being passed on to the American public as to why it is needed immediately!

So back to the subject at hand, it was on Rita Cosby's show on the 4th - last Saturday evening, that it was stated that there was a boat that took off from a certain spot on the beach - an input - that took Natalee out in a cage and dumped her in the ocean. Something to that effect. And this info was given to the producer of the AMW show who wrote about it when he also told the story of Dave finding the wooden cross. It was either that or Dompig told this to Dave Holloway who in turn told the producer of the show. It is on our AMW thread from a few days ago.


We have known all along about the fact the Fishermans Huts were burgled the same night she went missing, and that a knife, rope and a wire fishing cage was taken. We just didn't know the cage was huge, or big enough to hold her or that th knife was a big one. That is new info.

Nothing is being done with this info now as the investigation has crept to a halt. That is what I think Americans need to know as to why there is a very real reason to get this investigation on track with all this new info that has been learned. Why Greta did not mention this on her show last night is beyond me ~ Fox has been the outlet that has given us the basic info through Rita. I don't know what channel AMW is on.

And the info that we have on Koen, that his father is a cousin of Paulis', and it was his son Koen, a friend of Joran's, who used the boat to take Natalee out in the ocean. Maybe that info is not verified to this date, so it couldn't be broadcast on Greta's show.

She has to know about this. I was going to email her but wanted to find the exact link from Rita's show to send along.

What do you think?

[dkpen]

Leslie you need a new avatar. Your's is still from Christmas.  hehe


Once removed, twice removed...all the same as first cousins, second cousins. Just a different way to say it.

My mothers brother is my uncle. His children are my first cousins. There children are my second cousins, second cousins children are my third cousin, and on down the line. Does not change the relationship in the generations at all.

Now my mothers first cousin, is my second cousin and my daughter is her third cousin. Their grand parents are my great-grandparents, and it makes them my daughters great great grandparents. But it goes along the lines of what I said above.

Anyways....I read on the forums in the early days that they were cousins by someone from Aruba. I believe it was Arubagirl from over at TripAdvisor. Then when viewing MySpace, Zorpia and other sites, Joran had Koen and Sanders pictures up in his "family" second and listed them both as cousins. Pictures then started to pop up with them all together younger. Since then they have been removed, unless someone saved them by chance.

Remove the word "second".  I don't know where that came from or how it got there. Guess I had second cousins on my mind. LOL

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Hugging Nemo...see you guys later.   Angie, I have lost your phone number again...

   lol  Lalas !    I will email it to you. k?  
Hugs to CP and Nemo both~!