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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #843 7/14/10 - 7/31/10  (Read 245721 times)
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nonesuche
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« Reply #160 on: July 16, 2010, 06:45:11 PM »

Hi Monkeys!

The thing that makes it hard to know about the new Thailand allegations is that Joran is capable of doing exactly what has been reported here. If he didn't do it, it's just because the opportunity didn't present itself, IMO.

I have to agree CBB.

btw, your avatar is something else, you are so talented!
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« Reply #161 on: July 16, 2010, 06:46:42 PM »

Thanks for posting the article Klaas.  Sad...

I don't doubt for a second that there's more than coincidence with Joran's nic and the activities described in the article.  We've seen plenty to verify that.

Can't help but wonder why the seemingly "privileged" son of a teacher in the International School and a judge in training would consider those activities the way to go...


Was Paulus a pimp too?  Did Anita have a "loverboy"?  Or maybe the uncle that helped Joran out when he damaged the house he was renting in Thailand, and seems to be the go to person when the boys want something they can't afford...is a pimp too?  Just wondering...  I don't think Joran decided all by himself that trafficking women was THE WAY to make money.  He's been learning all along the way from someone.  JMO

Something else...I've thought a lot about the fact that Anita's father is never mentioned.  The only mention of her parents I've ever seen is that she is the daughter of Trudie Hugen.  She also seems close to her grandmother. 

A grandfather was quoted in the articles about Joran staying with the grandparents for a while in Arnhem, I'm guessing that was with his grandmother Trudie.  I'm pretty sure I recall that Paulus's father died when he was young (about 5 years old iirc).  Even if Anita's father is dead it seems like he would have been mentioned somewhere along the way...  Maybe her parents divorced and Trudie is remarried?...


Texasmom I agree.  Joran learned it from someone and I think it was Paulus.
This all brings to mind Paulus and Joran as bookends at that poker table, was it a training session.
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klaasend
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« Reply #162 on: July 17, 2010, 02:58:05 AM »

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20010834-504083.html

July 16, 2010 4:35 PM
Van der Sloot Being Investigated in Thailand for Participation in Sex Slave Gang, Disappearance of Girls, Says Report

NEW YORK (CBS) Joran van der Sloot reportedly can add Thailand to the list of countries that might like to see him behind bars indefinitely.

PICTURES: Van der Sloot Hotel Room Crime Scene
PICTURES: Joran van der Sloot

Thai officials are investigating the Netherlands native regarding his alleged involvement in a Thai sex slave gang and for the disappearance of a young woman he may have recruited for the gang, according to the National Inquirer.

After escaping charges for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2008, van der Sloot allegedly fled to Bangkok and posed as "Murphy Jenkins," a production consultant for a modeling agency, reports the Enquirer.

Van der Sloot then did what he does best. He lied. He convinced the impressionable girls he was going to send them to Europe to become models.

Except several of the girls never achieved their modeling dreams, nor were they ever heard from again, says the tabloid.

PICTURES: Van der Sloot Hotel Room Crime Scene
PICTURES: Joran van der Sloot

"Girls who are approached by sex traffickers here often get killed, especially if they discover they are being tricked into prostitution and start to resist or threaten to go to the police," a Thai law enforcement official told the Enquirer. "Many of these girls have no legal documents. If they go missing, nobody notices. It's easy to kill them, hide the bodies and get away with it."

A source for CBS News spoke to Peru's Minister of Justice who confirmed that Thailand was pursuing criminal charges against van der Sloot.

Joran van der Sloot reportedly confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores - and then later recanted the confession to a Dutch newspaper. He remains in custody in Peru.

The 22-year-old remains the prime suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who vanished in Aruba during a high school graduation trip. Despite van der Sloot having been arrested twice in the Holloway case, Aruban prosecutors say they do not have enough evidence to put him behind bars.

(snipped)
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Magnolia
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« Reply #163 on: July 16, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20010834-504083.html

July 16, 2010 4:35 PM
Van der Sloot Being Investigated in Thailand for Participation in Sex Slave Gang, Disappearance of Girls, Says Report

NEW YORK (CBS) Joran van der Sloot reportedly can add Thailand to the list of countries that might like to see him behind bars indefinitely.

PICTURES: Van der Sloot Hotel Room Crime Scene
PICTURES: Joran van der Sloot

Thai officials are investigating the Netherlands native regarding his alleged involvement in a Thai sex slave gang and for the disappearance of a young woman he may have recruited for the gang, according to the National Inquirer.

After escaping charges for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2008, van der Sloot allegedly fled to Bangkok and posed as "Murphy Jenkins," a production consultant for a modeling agency, reports the Enquirer.

Van der Sloot then did what he does best. He lied. He convinced the impressionable girls he was going to send them to Europe to become models.

Except several of the girls never achieved their modeling dreams, nor were they ever heard from again, says the tabloid.

PICTURES: Van der Sloot Hotel Room Crime Scene
PICTURES: Joran van der Sloot

"Girls who are approached by sex traffickers here often get killed, especially if they discover they are being tricked into prostitution and start to resist or threaten to go to the police," a Thai law enforcement official told the Enquirer. "Many of these girls have no legal documents. If they go missing, nobody notices. It's easy to kill them, hide the bodies and get away with it."

A source for CBS News spoke to Peru's Minister of Justice who confirmed that Thailand was pursuing criminal charges against van der Sloot.

Joran van der Sloot reportedly confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores - and then later recanted the confession to a Dutch newspaper. He remains in custody in Peru.

The 22-year-old remains the prime suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who vanished in Aruba during a high school graduation trip. Despite van der Sloot having been arrested twice in the Holloway case, Aruban prosecutors say they do not have enough evidence to put him behind bars.

(snipped)


Well, there you go!!  There is the fire that Wreck spoke of.
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Anna
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« Reply #164 on: July 17, 2010, 04:17:49 AM »

So Thailand joins the line of those wanting to question Joran per CBS. 

I'm sure this is no surprise to most of us as we were wondering what Joran was doing all those years.

If they have DNA from any victims, I am sure PLE will share that with them but I wonder if Thailand will send someone to Peru to question Joran as that is pretty expensive especially when it is one of his infamous no body no case situations.

And we know he was on the beach, naked.  So he did have access to a burial at sea once again.

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wreck
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« Reply #165 on: July 16, 2010, 09:21:59 PM »

More blood on Aruba's hands. They will NEVER shed this infamy.
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Anna
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« Reply #166 on: July 17, 2010, 04:30:01 AM »

Netherlands Consulate denies official translator in Peru, as the police claimed to question Van der Sloot.
Embassy supports Joran complaint


Money in the trial against Joran van der Sloot. THE FIRST had access to a document that the Embassy of Holland's attorney sent abroad, Maximum Highness, where the consulate states that do not have an official translator in Peru, which reinforces the accusation of being accused murderer of Stephany Flores because his confession was obtained through the participation of Dutchman Maurice Steins, who posed as an official translator.

Following confirmation of the nonexistence of a diplomatic embassy official Joran's legal defense sent a complaint to the extension of 48 Lima Criminal Provincial Prosecutor to investigate the Steins for the crime of usurpation of authority and false generic, which add to the accusations of abuse of authority, an offense of conspiracy to commit a crime and the crime of misrepresentation against the police Homicide Division of the Dirincri.

Furthermore, the expansion of Joran complaint indicates that the policemen who were conducting the interrogation misled him by indicating that Steins was an official translator, which adds to the fault is the absence of counsel because the lawyer who was This was imposed and merely a passive witness throughout the proceedings.

Diplomatic letter
The maximum of 12 July Highness sent a letter to the Netherlands Embassy, asking to be informed of the identity of the official translators they have in our land, which responds Embassy on 13 July (in document FIRST enclosed) that "the embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands does not have an official translator, document signed by Norma Johanson Casapía, consul attached.

http://www.diariolaprimeraperu.com/online/policial/embajada-respalda-denuncia-de-joran_66295.html



I hope the judge throws this out as well.  If the Dutch have no official translators, how could the police be expected to use one?  And evidently someone was sent because it was noted at the time that there was a translator present and something was said about that translator coming from the embassy even if not an "official" one.

Besides, Joran didn't seem to have any problems with Spanish in the first place and I am sure the fact that he has none now will be taken into consideration, also.

And no "translation" errors cxan account for all the lurid details he provided as to exactly how he did this crime against Stephany.  No way in hell that's some translation error!

What is he going to claim now, that he thought "grabbed her by the neck" meant asked if she wanted coffee or something?  "Held my shirt over her face" he thought meant offered to walk her back to her car?

I think Joran's lawyer just "showboats" for his client with all these silly objections as part of Joran's belief that he can obstruct and get away again.

Someone needs to tell Joran that he's not in Aruba any longer.  No one believes a thing he says anywhere else.

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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #167 on: July 17, 2010, 04:36:15 AM »

More blood on Aruba's hands. They will NEVER shed this infamy.

Yes and I wish the media would call him Aruban instead of Dutch.  At least Dutch-Aruban as I want Aruba to bear the brunt of what they did in refusing to prosecute Joran.

Now it comes to light that he may be responsible for the death of two in Thailand in addition to Stephany Flores in Peru--

ALL that at the hands of Aruba because Uncle Jan vd Straten couldn't "do this to my best friend's son" and Karin Janssen "couldn't think of any reason why the boys would lie" about the security guards.

Aruba is where the drugging and raping game was being played with impunity and even laughed about by the locals including LE Officer Dennis Jacobs to Dave Holloway, one of the victim's own father.
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cecilita
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« Reply #168 on: July 16, 2010, 09:37:36 PM »

Hi All - congrats to Jen on the wonderful news!

This may have been posted already, I've been traveling with work again so can't keep up adequately.

It does state that officials in Thailand have requested a meeting with the Peruvian officials? This writer has been following Joran's case weekly?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-15/joran-van-der-sloots-sex-trade-accusations/?cid=hp:mainpromo6

Held in a Peruvian jail on murder charges, Joran van der Sloot is now also accused of trafficking underage Thai girls for sex—including two who have gone missing.

As Joran van der Sloot waits in a Peruvian jail to be tried for the murder of Stephany Flores, it increasingly appears that a highly disturbed young man was allowed to rampage freely for years.

New revelations indicate that the list of missing women linked to the 22-year-old Dutchman may grow even longer, all because Aruban police failed to imprison him five years ago. Not long after Van der Sloot narrowly escaped prosecution for the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba on May 30, 2005, he headed home to Holland to finish his studies. He had served three months in Aruban jail after Holloway disappeared, but was released that September due to lack of evidence. Back in Holland, he took a few classes, but spent most of his time gambling in the casinos and smoking pot in coffee bars.

In Holland, he met up with an old friend who had just returned from Thailand with a string of exotic dancers. The friend was netting $13,000 in cash for each woman he brought into a Dutch prostitution ring. Van der Sloot, a born risk-taker, wanted in on the action, and his friend quickly set him up with the Dutch pimp....

(Excerpt) ...The scheme was going swimmingly until Van der Sloot’s chief nemesis, Dutch investigative journalist Peter R. De Vries, caught him on hidden camera with a hotel room full of underage women. Van der Sloot can be heard offering them “$15,000 to shake your ass.” The women, of course, would never see that money. A few months after De Vries’ exposé, Dutch authorities started investigating Van der Sloot for human trafficking but never charged him. Now, revelations that two young Thai sex workers who appear on that video are missing have prompted Thai police to open an investigation. They have officially requested access to Van der Sloot in Peru....
The thai authorities didnt do anything after the video was released, i think they wait and waist too much time!!!. it is unbelievable that after Stephany's murder....it  brought up more crimes from the young monster.
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Anna
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« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2010, 04:42:50 AM »

Agree, Cecilita.

Only Peter de Vries did anything to even try to stop Joran.  If he had not made those tapes, no one would have even had proof of what Joran was trying to do.

And even then, nothing was done about it.

Same as when Joran told Patrick about what he did with Natalee in the Range Rover.

Please, God, let it be differenet this time!  He kept getting away with it even with tapes and confessions.  No wonder Joran thinks he can get away with murder.  He likely has and more than once.
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« Reply #170 on: July 16, 2010, 09:47:29 PM »

TRANSLATOR FROM THE DUTCH EMBASSY

Peru police give Van der Sloot murder case to prosecutors
The Associated Press
LIMA, Peru June 10, 2010 (AP)


Guardia denied any suggestion that Van der Sloot's confession was forced. He said a translator assigned by the Dutch Embassy was present, as was a state-appointed defense attorney.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wirestory?id=10873420&page=4


ACCORDING TO PERUVIAN LAW

Van der Sloot charged with murder in PeruFrom Mayra Cuevas , CNN
June 17, 2010 9:28 p.m. EDT


Van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has said he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Magnolia
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« Reply #171 on: July 16, 2010, 09:49:38 PM »

The Dutch Embassy does not employ an official translator.  There is a Board of Official Translators.

I don't know if the Embassy called for the translator or if the police called for the translator.
Either way, Maximum Highness is parsing words. IMO
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Magnolia
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« Reply #172 on: July 16, 2010, 10:11:56 PM »

Yesterday morning , the European coffee and breakfast bread. Meanwhile, homicide detectives awaited the arrival of the public defender and translator Maurice Steins , given by the Consortium of Legal Translators .

http://trome.pe/tonline/Html/2010-06-06/ontractualidad1093554.html

This is what I was thinking of.   It is a Consortium....not a board.
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wreck
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« Reply #173 on: July 16, 2010, 10:19:06 PM »

Does Thailand have caning?? Maybe, we should ship Joran there for a couple of days and then send him back to Peru! 
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #174 on: July 16, 2010, 10:34:50 PM »

I don't think I'd ever seen all of this in one place, so I thought others might be interested too.

IIRC the interview is from September 2005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulrULzXb3L8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>


 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
wreck
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« Reply #175 on: July 16, 2010, 10:47:41 PM »

I don't think I'd ever seen all of this in one place, so I thought others might be interested too.

IIRC the interview is from September 2005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulrULzXb3L8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>


 

I could only watch about half of this before having to hurl.
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #176 on: July 16, 2010, 10:49:09 PM »

Does Thailand have caning?? Maybe, we should ship Joran there for a couple of days and then send him back to Peru! 

I think Joran had help in Thailand, much like his help in Aruba.  They never did a thing to him for the trafficking and no telling what else he got away with there.  I'd be very surprised if they ever charge him with any crime.

JMO
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #177 on: July 16, 2010, 10:55:31 PM »

I don't think I'd ever seen all of this in one place, so I thought others might be interested too.

IIRC the interview is from September 2005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulrULzXb3L8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ulrULzXb3L8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>


 

I could only watch about half of this before having to hurl.

Awwww come on now wreck....You need to watch the rest so you'll feel like knocking that smile off his lying face like I did.  You need to see him smile so big and say how he's never touched a girl in an aggressive way in his life!

 

 

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #178 on: July 16, 2010, 11:01:51 PM »

He reminded me so much of his mother in that interview.  Disgusting!   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #179 on: July 17, 2010, 06:04:53 AM »

Yesterday morning , the European coffee and breakfast bread. Meanwhile, homicide detectives awaited the arrival of the public defender and translator Maurice Steins , given by the Consortium of Legal Translators .

http://trome.pe/tonline/Html/2010-06-06/ontractualidad1093554.html

This is what I was thinking of.   It is a Consortium....not a board.


Excellent, Magnolia.  It certainly sounds as though PLE used the very best of translators available to them.  It isn't their fault the Dutch embassy does not provide an "official" one and this certainly seems that everything possible was done to insure the monster had no translation difficulties.

Which is all well and good especially since he speaks Spanish in the first place.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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