Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #3 7/5/10 - 7/8/10

[klaasend]

From Terri's facebook page - April 2010 photos:

[klaasend]

She did not in photos and in photo comments appear to be unhappy in April of this year.  She was either very good at hiding it or something happened in May to upset her.

[Babybear]

I agree with Gypsy DD and Klaasend.  I believe that Terri is responsible for Kyron's disappearance. She was the last known person to see him.  I'm sure Kaine can prove he was at work (Although why anyone would think he would harm his son is a mystery to me) and Desiree was living some hours away.  I don't know for a fact, but it's likely that Desiree's husband can prove his whereabouts on the morning in question. We know that whatever happened to Kyron happened in the morning because he was not present when classes started. That leaves only Terri. It's a process of elimination. In most every case in life, the answer is usually the obvious.

But what I really want to consider is what Kaine said about a "Safe house."  Someone touched on the subject earlier today.  Some years ago, and it might still be going on, I don't know, there were networks which would take children and hide them in "Safe houses."  This was usually done in cases where mothers claimed their children were being sexually abused and it was often an accusation which took place during a divorce.  Sometimes it was true and sometimes not.  There was a case of two doctors in Washington DC.  The wife, Dr. Elizabeth Morgan accused her doctor husband of sexually abusing their daughter.  The daughter showed physical signs of abuse as well as having STDs.  A court, however, didn't believe the evidence and awarded Dr. Morgan, the father, visitation.  Elizabeth Morgan, with the help of one of these networks, was able to get her daughter to Australia to live with relatives, as I recall Elizabeth's parents.  Elizabeth Morgan was jailed for contempt of court because she wouldn't tell where her daughter was and it took an act of Congress to overrule the judge and get her release.
I went into this to show that I believe these accusations are often true, but sadly sometimes they are not true and are the result of a vindictive parent in the middle of a divorce.

There was a reason Kaine referred to a "Safe House."  An odd term under the circumstances unless he had a reason to think Terri put Kyron into the hands of one of these networks. Could it be that there is reason for him to believe that with the complicity of one of these groups, Terri was able to remove Kyron from school and hand him over to one of these groups which truly believed he was abused, or whatever Terri might have told them? I hope that is the case because it would mean he is alive and being cared for.

I don't know.  This is just a random thought and has no basis in the evidence as we know it.  Only Kaine's use of the term "Safe house" seemed possibly significant to me.

[klaasend]

I do wish that Terri, at least through her attorney, would give a statement to address the accusations of others.  Most of all I wish Kryon to be found safe.

[Kat_Gram]

Terri hasn't even been charged with jaywalking yet. There was probable cause on Jume 26, it is July 8. Enough probable cause for Kaine to get an RO and leave his house. But still no charges. The RO was granted, she hired an attorney and clams up. So, now there is no communication with anyone except her lawyer. That was an excellent strategy on the part of LE.
..
Getting a restraining order can be a domestic issue handled in family court or a criminal issue handled in regular court up here. Once it is issued, it is a heck of a job to get it removed. The domestic ones here are really quite easy to get. Is that distinction made in this case. Did he get the RO at the same time he filed for a divorce or was it a separate criminal issue ?
.. I have no idea why this Kaine guy turns me off. ???
Terri could have done something to Kyron, but there were several other persons at that school who also could have done something in the blink of an eye. We haven't heard of anyone who saw Kyron leave the school with Terri, and yet there must have been alot of parents leaving at the same time who knew her by sight in the parking lot. No one saw him in the company of anyone else either. 

[MuffyBee]

Isn't it great to be able to personally edit peoples posts in red when you don't like their content or it isn't consistent with ones point of view how intimidating is that when one may not share your opinion.

Guilt or innocence I can't say for sure but I refuse to misinterpret what little is available for public perusal, plenty of time to vilify this person if she is arrested and charged. This should be about Kyron instead the thread is about anything but!!!

Isn't it great to be so rude to a fellow monkey/poster (and admin at that) when she didn't even do what you've accused to her of.  IF you had read what she posted, you would know she said her ANSWERS were in red.  No editing there.  I think you owe Klaas an apology, Miki Monkey. I don't believe I've seen Klaas force her view on anyone here and I've never, ever seen her edit someone's post to suit her own opinion.  When Klaas or a moderator edits, you will see a small edit notation at the bottom on the post.  It does that EACH and EVERY time a post is edited.  And there is most often an explanation of the edit.  All you you really had to do Miki was ask Klaas about her post.  The harshness and accusatory tone you took with Klaas was totally uncalled for.  And Klaas kindly explained to you she DID NOT edit the post.  MuffyBee

[klaasend]

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

Step-mother failed multiple polygraphs

Last Update: 6:51 pm

"Everyone knows Terri has taken two polygraphs. She has not passed those polygraphs."
Related Links

PORTLAND, Ore. – Kaine Horman and Desiree Young lashed out at Terri Moulton Horman, telling reporters Kyron Horman’s step-mother failed two polygraph tests and stating they believe she had something to do with the 7-year-old’s disappearance. Watch the press conference in its entirety here.

Kyron Horman has been missing since June 4 when his step-mother Terri Moulton Horman took him to his school’s science fair, but investigators have been fairly tight-lipped regarding any information surrounding the case. Thursday’s meeting offered information that had been speculated upon, but never verified.

“Everyone knows Terri has taken two polygraphs,” Kaine said. “She has not passed those polygraphs.”

For the third time, Desiree said the step-mother has not been fully open with law enforcement.

“It is really frustrating that she [Terri Moulton Horman] is not cooperating,” Desiree said. “She is not taking an active roll in finding Kyron or telling the truth.”

Desiree said she immediately thought Terri may have had something to do with Kyron from the very start.

“Mothers have instincts,” she said. “Unfortunately, I had feelings about this when I got the phone call.”

Also Thursday, Kaine filed a motion to have Terri forced to move out of their house. Kaine said one of the reasons for the motion is so that when Kyron is found, he can go back home. Kaine has a restraining order against Terri, and he and their toddler daughter have been living at an undisclosed location since June 26.

(snipped)

[klaasend]

Thanks Muffy

[Peace]

As a mother myself, I would never set aside another mothers intuitive instincts. I truly believe they serve us better than any logic. I hold Desiree in the highest esteem for what she has endured and her obvious character throughout this ordeal. I too believe Kyron is alive. Statistics are one thing, and I am very aware of those, but I do believe that Kyron's mom knows he is alive. Let us all continue on that premise and keep watch every day. 
She believes Terri has not been cooperative and she believes Kyron is alive. Who then would be an accomplice and why? Use the Hedonistic Calculus with people whom you think could even remotely be considered POI's.....who would serve to gain most? Let's remember $10,000 doesn't even buy you a new car, but to a poor immigrant...

A behaviorist relying on unsubstantiated fact without analysis of person by self… saying” I believe” someone is guilty from rumors and prior to facts known ? Sorry, it is 2010. My study is in behavioral science. What theory do you subscribe to?  Have you even thought of a calculus or is your summary solely based on the media sensation du jour ? “ I think, I feel, I believe”
For all: Intention of devils’ advocate is to encourage thinking on all plains, not solely on rumor and emotional thought processes. Kyron is missing. I intend to encourage thinking on all levels. In calculus you would calculate specific notions.  Can you compute your logic or is it something you cannot compute? “I think Terri is guilty” Well, Let us hear your logic on this.
Additional note: I realize this is a forum, but if you present yourself as a professional behaviorist, you should possess the ability to assess as a behaviorist should. I do not possess my degree as yet, but as this is my daily study, I will call you out if you present as a behaviorist when I see “ I believe the media report  today because” 

[islandmonkey]

Isn't it great to be able to personally edit peoples posts in red when you don't like their content or it isn't consistent with ones point of view how intimidating is that when one may not share your opinion.

Guilt or innocence I can't say for sure but I refuse to misinterpret what little is available for public perusal, plenty of time to vilify this person if she is arrested and charged. This should be about Kyron instead the thread is about anything but!!!

Don't want to step on any toes here, but that wasn't an edit is was answers in red......that being said I'm sure Klaas has the ability to edit/delete post but have never seen her use it except on extremely rare occasions and only when it was necessary. I am guilty of answering post of others not in the red but underlined or bolded. Just didn't want you to think it was an edit

[MuffyBee]

We've still got another 10 or so posts to go, but wanted to let everyone know:

[Tracygirl]

From Terri's facebook page - April 2010 photos:

This is family time, she was probably happy this day. We all see that she had changed. The pic with her and the kids, she looked wonderful! The past 6 months she looks as though she has given up on herself.

[klaasend]

As a mother myself, I would never set aside another mothers intuitive instincts. I truly believe they serve us better than any logic. I hold Desiree in the highest esteem for what she has endured and her obvious character throughout this ordeal. I too believe Kyron is alive. Statistics are one thing, and I am very aware of those, but I do believe that Kyron's mom knows he is alive. Let us all continue on that premise and keep watch every day. 
She believes Terri has not been cooperative and she believes Kyron is alive. Who then would be an accomplice and why? Use the Hedonistic Calculus with people whom you think could even remotely be considered POI's.....who would serve to gain most? Let's remember $10,000 doesn't even buy you a new car, but to a poor immigrant...

A behaviorist relying on unsubstantiated fact without analysis of person by self… saying” I believe” someone is guilty from rumors and prior to facts known ? Sorry, it is 2010. My study is in behavioral science. What theory do you subscribe to?  Have you even thought of a calculus or is your summary solely based on the media sensation du jour ? “ I think, I feel, I believe”
For all: Intention of devils’ advocate is to encourage thinking on all plains, not solely on rumor and emotional thought processes. Kyron is missing. I intend to encourage thinking on all levels. In calculus you would calculate specific notions.  Can you compute your logic or is it something you cannot compute? “I think Terri is guilty” Well, Let us hear your logic on this.
Additional note: I realize this is a forum, but if you present yourself as a professional behaviorist, you should possess the ability to assess as a behaviorist should. I do not possess my degree as yet, but as this is my daily study, I will call you out if you present as a behaviorist when I see “ I believe the media report  today because” 

1.  Terri was the last known verified person to have seen Kyron
2.  Terri lied about where she was that morning based upon the cell pings near Sauvie Island
3.  We can assume that she has been less that truthful in at least one of the polygraphs since they have asked her to take a 2nd.
4.  POLICE have verified that Terri did attempt to hire someone to kill her husband.  Or at least the police took it as a serious threat.
5.  A judge agreed there was sufficient reason to sign the restraining order
6.  No matter what drove her to it, anyone who would hire someone to kill their husband is not thinking clearly and who knows what she might have done to Kyron.

Based on the above, Terri is the prime suspect in my mind. 

[Tracygirl]

If you look at recent cases that Terri may have read on line. One that comes to mine is Gabriels. If Terri was feeling how I think she was, she probably felt a connection to Elizabeth. What could she have learned from that case and applied it to this case, if so.
Elizabeth said she killed the baby but it is thought she didn't, that she hid the baby in an underground. It is believed that she possibly drugged the baby during the pass off? Could Terri have done this? The stepmom to Tanner has left the state of Oregon, where did she go? Was it Arizona? Maybe it was Texas? I can't recall. This woman lived on Sauvie? I hope LE has fully investigated this connection.

What other stories are out there and popular that details include a mom protecting (supposedly) a child?

[Tracygirl]

As a mother myself, I would never set aside another mothers intuitive instincts. I truly believe they serve us better than any logic. I hold Desiree in the highest esteem for what she has endured and her obvious character throughout this ordeal. I too believe Kyron is alive. Statistics are one thing, and I am very aware of those, but I do believe that Kyron's mom knows he is alive. Let us all continue on that premise and keep watch every day. 
She believes Terri has not been cooperative and she believes Kyron is alive. Who then would be an accomplice and why? Use the Hedonistic Calculus with people whom you think could even remotely be considered POI's.....who would serve to gain most? Let's remember $10,000 doesn't even buy you a new car, but to a poor immigrant...

A behaviorist relying on unsubstantiated fact without analysis of person by self… saying” I believe” someone is guilty from rumors and prior to facts known ? Sorry, it is 2010. My study is in behavioral science. What theory do you subscribe to?  Have you even thought of a calculus or is your summary solely based on the media sensation du jour ? “ I think, I feel, I believe”
For all: Intention of devils’ advocate is to encourage thinking on all plains, not solely on rumor and emotional thought processes. Kyron is missing. I intend to encourage thinking on all levels. In calculus you would calculate specific notions.  Can you compute your logic or is it something you cannot compute? “I think Terri is guilty” Well, Let us hear your logic on this.
Additional note: I realize this is a forum, but if you present yourself as a professional behaviorist, you should possess the ability to assess as a behaviorist should. I do not possess my degree as yet, but as this is my daily study, I will call you out if you present as a behaviorist when I see “ I believe the media report  today because” 

1.  Terri was the last known verified person to have seen Kyron
2.  Terri lied about where she was that morning based upon the cell pings near Sauvie Island
3.  We can assume that she has been less that truthful in at least one of the polygraphs since they have asked her to take a 2nd.
4.  POLICE have verified that Terri did attempt to hire someone to kill her husband.  Or at least the police took it as a serious threat.
5.  A judge agreed there was sufficient reason to sign the restraining order
6.  No matter what drove her to it, anyone who would hire someone to kill their husband is not thinking clearly and who knows what she might have done to Kyron.
Based on the above, Terri is the prime suspect in my mind. 

Prayer for you sweet little boy.

[Peace]

Thanks Wyks and O4Bull, I appreciate your understanding, but it's hot and I'm in the kitchen, I can take it, but thank you for comprehending my intent. I will never be the wall-flower Thinking is good. Expanded thinking beyond one's comfort zone.... better. IMHO

[Peace]

Thanks Klaas, I am glad you understood my intent. All I'm asking for is calculus, and there are others....

[Wyks]

Thanks Wyks and O4Bull, I appreciate your understanding, but it's hot and I'm in the kitchen, I can take it, but thank you for comprehending my intent. I will never be the wall-flower Thinking is good. Expanded thinking beyond one's comfort zone.... better. IMHO

You're welcome, Peace.  I like your style and expanded thinking. 

[sleddogs]

I think everybody's frustration is starting to show, due to the lack of progress in this criminal investigation. I am starting to doubt that Kyron is alive. First because of the length of time missing and secondly this has went national and if he was in a "safe house" I would think the people running it would know by now that Traci lied to them about Kyron's situation and would be looking for a way out. Even if it meant dropping him off far from their location. Or if he knows too much, shudder, making him disappear.

[Wyks]

Miki Monkey  < hugs >