Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #3 7/5/10 - 7/8/10

[Peace]

Sebastian,
It is most helpful to look at all angles and possible motives.
For who would benefit most from Kyron missing
Is this a kidnapping for good or bad intent?
Good intent? Someone believes they are keeping Kyron safe.
Bad intent? To sell, exploit or murder.
For someone, the setting the day he disappeared was the perfect opportunity. (Premeditation)
Who had the means and what were those means?
What was the end?
So, we're looking for the most plausible motive and means to an end.
Look at past behavior of the people of interest.
Look at stressers
So, I have been interested most in the profile of a person who would take Kyron for good intent or bad intent and why the science fair was their perfect opportunity to do so even after the 2nd bell rang. So much margin for error. If you are the last to be seen with someone, you are the first LE will look to. Everyone who watches CSI knows that. lol. It's in every episode.  Kyron had to be directed to leave the school by someone in authority in his world. Otherwise, he would not break the rules. All children know you do not leave the building once school is in session. School is in session after the 2nd bell.
If LE believed Terri to be a sociopath, would anyone try to appeal to her to "do the right thing?" Sociopaths cannot identify in such a manner so such statement would be futile. So, if LE has had any part in o.king the statement put out by the family, I'm sure they know more than I about criminal minds and how they operate. You cannot appeal to the empathy of a sociopath. You can however appeal to a person who possesses empathy, a non-sociopath.
Don't know if the family just went ahead and made the statement on their own, but I think in cases like this the FBI is running the show. I also think of reverse psychology and how that is used. 

[Wyks]

This is the picture I am talking about the difference from then to now....

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs348.snc4/41522_1264414625_4984_n.jpg

Yes, she looks much better in that picture, I agree. And I am willing to bet that was taken around Nov or December last year.

IMO he had no right to make her son leave..

With the reasons they've tossed out to the general public, I'm with you on this.  We don't have much info about this tho, as to the reasons why, or how it all happened.  We don't know for sure who made him leave.  It's real easy to see how it 'could have' been Kaine's idea, with him telling Terri to 'get er done', and then later say, 'Terri made him leave'.  Yeah, but at Kaine's order?  Or if J decided he was done with that place and got the heck out of dodge himself.  We don't know if it was because of behavioral/relationship/whatever reasons, or if it was for his own (or someone else's) protection.  Things just may not be what they seem.  And very likely way deeper that anything we've heard about yet.  I'd still like to hear Terri's side of this.  Maybe the Gparents side as well.  Doubt that we'll hear J's side, since he is a minor.  He 'looks like' a nice young man, from his pics.  Yet looks can be deceiving too.  Gahhhh!

For a period in our lives, I removed my mid-son from our home to the home of my best friend, known since 1st grade, she is like a 2nd mom to my sons.  Anyone looking on might think, ahhhhh trouble in paradise.  Well yes.  But not with him... never with him.  It was 3 months before my oldest was to graduate HS and go into the army.  He was quite regularly beating the crap out of my mid-son, and I had kicked his sorry @ss out in a 'tough-love' kind of thing.  LE brought him back, smiled, and said, 'that's illegal until he graduates.. sorry'.  <blinkety-blink!!>  My only other recourse was to remove mid-son for his own safety, to my friends gated and secure home, (and trust me he was delighted to go for the duration), until oldest son left for the army. 

So things are not always as they seem.  Sadly.  As tho this case doesn't have enuff questions, craziness, etc. 

[Northern Rose]

O/T  LIVE VIDEO: Homecoming for Alisa Maier in Louisiana, Missouri at 1:30

http://www.ksdk.com/video/live/live_2.aspx

[Tamikosmom]

How did the landscaper come to the attention of investigators?  Think about it.  It was investigators who tracked down the landscaper.

Could it be that a computer search revealed emails between Terri and the landscaper?

A restraining order that coincided with the sting was issued ... a restraining order which denied Terri contact with Kaine as well as her children tells me that investigators have a solid foundation of evidence that supports the murder for hire attempt ... not just the heresay of the landscaper.

Unless investigators possess strong evidence to back up a murder for hire attempt ... Kaine filing for divorce at this period in time would be an over-reaction as well as inappropriate.

IMO

Janet

+++++

Janet, I agree especially with what you wrote above about Kaine filing for divorce. 

For we the public looking on... it seemed that Kaine was able to get an exparte TRO and remove Kiara, based on a threat made by Terri, as evidenced by the 911 call.. Then LE admits that the 'threat' made that day was not against Kaine/Kiara, it was Terri feeling threatened, she made the 911 calls.  Kaine and Kiara had left the home hours earlier.  So the exparte TRO was actually based on hearsay from the landscaper?  That, IMO, was LE/FBI's first mistake.  It seem they then lied to the public about the reality of what that exparte TRO was based on, or are still lying by omission as to what it was really about.   

Or did they?  What am I missing? 

The truth should be revealed with the unsealing of that restraining order.  I cannot comprehend that Terri would be denied contact with her children on the heresay of the landscaper.  There has to be some solid backup evidence that justified the judge's immediate and ongoing compliance.

Janet

[Wyks]

I agree Terri is responsible and LE has other evidence against her..timelines for that day not adding up, two different teachers saying they saw Kyron leaving school with her that day, etc.

I also didn't know what to make of Kaine's way of phrasing the California trip.  It could be it was a special vacation just for he and Kyron, and Terri din't even want to go with them fishing, camping etc.  It could also be that Terri was not wanting to go because Kyron grated on her nerves.  Or it could be the whole family was going, but after Kaine found out about the death threat he had no intention of including her in any discussions of family plans with the media.

I think Terri did this..I'm just not sure of her motive.  Seems she was ridding herself of male fmily members.  She tries to get a hit on Kaine, moves her teenage son out of the house, and now Kyron is missing....I wonder if all three actions are related. 

We don't know who for sure was behind moving J out of the home, even if Terri 'did it', if it was at Kaine's order, or her own idea.  But having said that, I agree with the rest.  It does seem to me that all three actions may very well be related.  In some way.  Either as you described, or possibly as a chess game.  One makes a move, then the other, and back n forth they go.  The children being the pawns used.  And I think that Kyron has paid a heavy price for the inability of the adults in his life to relate in healthy ways.  IMO.

[Brandi]

Kaine and Desiree to speak to the media - watch it here at 5 p.m.
Kaine Horman and Desiree Young, Kyron's parents, will speak to media Thursday night at 5 p.m.

It is unclear at this time if the restraining order against Terri Moulton Horman, Kyron's stepmom, will be made public by then, but Multnomah County judge Keith Meisenheimer was speaking with attorneys of the involved parties early Thursday morning.
 
Tune in to KOIN Local 6 at 5, 5:30 and 6 for full coverage of the interview, or watch the event in its entirety at koinlocal6.com.

Restraining order to be unsealed?
In a new development, the Multnomah County District Attorney has removed his opposition to making the restraining order against Terri Moulton Horman public.

Kaine Horman, Kyron's dad, filed for divorce and a restraining order last Monday, June 28, and moved out from the couple's rural Northwest Portland home on Saturday, June 26.

The restraining order has been sealed since its filing, but now it appears those details could be made public, as soon as Thursday.

The matter is pending before the Supreme Court although Multnomah County Court Judge Keith Meisenheimer, who sealed the order, could rule to unseal it as soon as tomorrow.

Here is a letter that Chief Deputy District Attorney Norman Frink sent to judge Meisenheimer

Your honor:

This confirms my discussion with you earlier this evening. After speaking with Mr. Bosworth and Ms. Rackner, I called you and informed you that, given the media coverage over the past long weekend, the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team could no longer stand by its assertion in my affidavit of July 2 that unsealing the sealed matters before you would undermine our on-going criminal investigation. I express no opinion on any position Terri Horman might have in the matter.

You told me of your intent to decide what further action was warranted after you reviewed the sealed documents when your court was open again on Thursday, July 8.

Yours very truly,

Norman W. Frink

Chief Deputy District Attorney

Multnomah County, Oregon

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

[Tracygirl]

Peace I agree with what you are saying, however do you feel it would make a difference if Kyron had recently been talked to by his parents about needing to listen and follow the instructions better when at school. apparently there was a need for this...As they stated, they believe this may have contributed to his possibly leaving with someone. I can see that.
I don't think I am as convinces as others this was not just another pedo kidnapping. It could have been somewhat planned as with the day, time, person..

Sebastian,
It is most helpful to look at all angles and possible motives.
For who would benefit most from Kyron missing
Is this a kidnapping for good or bad intent?
Good intent? Someone believes they are keeping Kyron safe.
Bad intent? To sell, exploit or murder.
For someone, the setting the day he disappeared was the perfect opportunity. (Premeditation)
Who had the means and what were those means?
What was the end?
So, we're looking for the most plausible motive and means to an end.
Look at past behavior of the people of interest.
Look at stressers
So, I have been interested most in the profile of a person who would take Kyron for good intent or bad intent and why the science fair was their perfect opportunity to do so even after the 2nd bell rang. So much margin for error. If you are the last to be seen with someone, you are the first LE will look to. Everyone who watches CSI knows that. lol. It's in every episode.  Kyron had to be directed to leave the school by someone in authority in his world. Otherwise, he would not break the rules. All children know you do not leave the building once school is in session. School is in session after the 2nd bell.
If LE believed Terri to be a sociopath, would anyone try to appeal to her to "do the right thing?" Sociopaths cannot identify in such a manner so such statement would be futile. So, if LE has had any part in o.king the statement put out by the family, I'm sure they know more than I about criminal minds and how they operate. You cannot appeal to the empathy of a sociopath. You can however appeal to a person who possesses empathy, a non-sociopath.
Don't know if the family just went ahead and made the statement on their own, but I think in cases like this the FBI is running the show. I also think of reverse psychology and how that is used. 

[Gypsy DD]

I agree with you Wyks about the family dynamics, it just feels off to me. I really don't know why they put Desiree up there to give statements, she looks uncomfortable, and so forced, and yes I believe someone has written it for her, Kaine, LE, I have no idea. She can give as many statements as she would like, and I can't blame her, but Terri is not going to talk, she has a lawyer, and if he wants her to say something she will. Otherwise trying to get at Terri and making her feel guilty is not going to matter.

I had crazy thoughts while I was trying to sleep last night thinking about poor little Kyron. Here is a crazy supposition. Maybe Desiree decided she wanted to get custody of Kyron as she needed to have more time with him. Maybe her husband did not want this. Who better to make someone disappear and railroad another than a police officer? I know, this is waaaaay out in left field.

I don't think that's all that crazy, Sebastian.

New as I am to this, I have out-in-left-field thoughts about this case too. It occurs to me quite frequently that everything we've heard, seen, or read since June 4 COULD BE part of a very precise, strategically designed web in which LE hopes to entrap the POI. That every piece of info "leaked" or directly put in front of the media is crafted to point to Terri, when in fact LE knows she's not the perp (but that pointing to her is the way to catch said perp). That the sting last week achieved its true purpose. That only the four main players - DY, TY, KH and TH - have any idea what LE is really up to.

As Tracygirl alluded to, when you stop to consider it, what do we really KNOW about this case?

I don't think they would have issued that RO on June 26th and given custody to Kaine..and taken custody away of all Terri's children..if they didn't have very firm evidence of the murder for hire plot.

They tried a sting with the idea of hush money..Terri turned the tables by calling LE on this guy..and the undercover cop.  They were definitely hoping she'd go for the pay out for him to keep quiet.  But she had her Mother living there..and how in the heck was she supposed to leave house, go to a bank and get that money when all eyes were on her?  She had to turn it down..and she must not have known it was a sting or she would not have called LE twice while the LS guy was there.  No she thought she could get rid of him by calling the cops..no one would believe his story.

JMHO

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Brandi. Why are they speaking to the media again? Not trying to be mean, but they can't answer most of the questions, what more can they say? If they think that they can get Terri to say something, imo, that isn't going to work. Now if Terri didn't have a lawyer, maybe.

[Wyks]

That could very well be the case, Gypsy!

I don't think she wanted her son to leave.  If I had remarried before my son was grown, and my husband tried to send him away, I would take my son and leave.  In a case like that, your child comes first.  Of course, she had her daughter to worry about, too. 

Someone earlier said maybe Kyron was her revenge for her son being sent away.  I rejected that idea, but maybe that is the case.  She obviously wasn't thinking rationally by that point in time.

That's exactly what I would have done too, Claycat!  Never would I have chosen a man over my children.  One reason I didn't get into a relationship with anyone until my sons were grown.  And that was 12+ years, raising them alone.  It's a choice others may not want to make.  I still want to hear from Terri herself tho.  Am thinking so would we all, eh?

 

[Gypsy DD]

Patiently drumming my fingers on the desk and waiting to see if it is released today.

Maybe for the sake of the other children the family does not want the details of the RO released..we will just have to wait and see.

[ospainter]

HLN's Natasha Lance (NG show) is in Portland.

She said the judge will release the RO soon.

OS

[4getUnot]

One of the Monkeys earlier had posted about the Stacie Wilmoth case that happened 30 years ago.  I'm pretty sure it was Wyks who posted it and even found the 1978 newspaper article about it. I found another article this morning in regard to it that I don't think has been posted yet.  It gives more details on that abduction.

<snipped>
Portland boy’s disappearance stirs memories of ’78 abduction
Second-grader taken from West Gresham School was found, went on to become mother of two
By Sharon Nesbit

The Gresham Outlook, Jun 8, 2010, Updated Jun 9, 2010

The search for second-grader Kyron Horman, missing from Portland’s Skyline School, reminds Gresham residents of a similar long night’s search on brushy Gresham Butte 32 years ago for Stacie Wilmoth, a second-grader who vanished from West Gresham School on April 26, 1978.

In Stacie’s case, she was lured to a car by a stranger who met her in the hall at West Gresham as she was headed to the restroom. The man, tall and brown-haired, told her he had some things in his car and that the school principal said she could help.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127604789675353300

What if a stranger saw Kyron in the hall walking toward his class after Terri said good by and lured Kyron in the same way that this girl was lured.  In her case the perp got away with it, it worked.  What if that is the case here?  Could this be the reason Khristian may be apart of the investigation in Multanomah County?

   

[Wyks]

This case is just too out of control. So many assumptions, rumors and personal opinions that turn into "facts" it is difficult to keep everything straight. It has turned into a circus at this point.

Tracygirl, I couldn't agree more.  We have very few genuine "Facts."  Just opinions which are repeated until they become the truth.  One of the few things  we know for a fact is that Kyron went missing and Terri was the last person known to be with him.  I am certain that what Blink said on Dana's show last night was true because of her good contacts.  She verified the story of the landscaper having an affair with Terri.  She also mentioned that in her opinion Kyron's disappearance had something to do with Terri's "Lifestyle" and, again, I trust what Blink says and she wouldn't say it if she didn't have confirmation.

Other than that, we have no facts.  We don't know if Kaine made James leave.  We don't know if Terri actually did try to have Kaine killed.  We know nothing of their home life.  And while Kaine did write a letter to his fellow employees at Intel, perhaps it was at the suggestion of LE that they not speak to the media.  IMO that doesn't make him "Controlling."  He might be.  He might not be.  We have no proof.

For myself only,  I'm not willing to accuse people with no proof.

Yep, Babybear. 

Yanno what this case reminds me of?  An elementary school playground.  3rd grade maybe.  Recess.  Playground monitor has her back turned.  One kid taunting another, who finally turns around and slugs the first kid.  Someone runs for the playground monitor who didn't see what happened.  All she knows is that one kid got hit, and suspends the second kid for fighting.  IMO, (and my oldest was a taunter at times), the monitor needs to find out first what exactly happened, what caused what, etc.  Both IMO ought to be suspended for fighting, even tho only one threw a punch.  The other one caused it.  IMO. 

Am thinking that Kaine may have been the instigator, Terri had enuff and threw the first 'obvious' punch.  Kaine may have gotten some punches in himself, words can hit harder than fists.  Something has caused Terri to have gone downhill rapidly in this past year or so.  And I kinda doubt that she just woke up one day and decided it was a good day to do him in. 

LE needs to throw em all in the slammer, put them in the same room together, and see what happens.  IMO.   

[Tracygirl]

So it is believed that LE must have verified this murderous plot and landscaper guy's account considering there is a a RO and that extends to the children...OK, but But lets say they didn't do that? Didn't protect the children and it turned out to something they should have acted on, would LE then be at fault? Considering this is surrounding a missing child case, to me it sounds reasonable for LE to advise this until it is investigated. It is a temporary RO.

BTW, I think it is a good thing Terri has a lawyer. As we said prior to her retaining one, she needed one to help her. It is not an admission of guilt to hire a lawyer, it was the smartest thing she did. She also should not be talking, that doesn't mean she is guilty or not guilty, her lawyer has advised her not to. I can say in my opinion it is because he doesn't want her story to be tainted with the publics opinion.

[Tamikosmom]

HLN's Natasha Lance (NG show) is in Portland.

She said the judge will release the RO soon.

OS

Darn it!

I am anticipating the unsealing of the RO but ... I have plans this afternoon.

Thanks OS.

Janet
12:30 PM PT

[Tracygirl]

HLN's Natasha Lance (NG show) is in Portland.

She said the judge will release the RO soon.

OS

I just hope they read it correctly and get the facts straight

[no rose colored glasses]

HLN's Natasha Lance (NG show) is in Portland.

She said the judge will release the RO soon.

OS

Good, thanks, curious to see what is in it.

[4getUnot]

•Kids are rarely abducted from school grounds.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/firstaid_safe/travel/abductions.html#

If the above statement is true then does it logically follow that the same MO was used in Kyron's case as in Stacie's case and the abductor either knew of the Stacie Wilmoth case or is in some way related to it?

[klaasend]

O/T  LIVE VIDEO: Homecoming for Alisa Maier in Louisiana, Missouri at 1:30

http://www.ksdk.com/video/live/live_2.aspx

Thanks Northern!