Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #4 7/8/10 - 7/11/10

[klaasend]

More old posts:

Just checked stepmom's FB and in reply to someone 5-7 hours ago she states she will be hitting the gym today and didn't get home til 8.  WTF???  Granted I would not react like this but how can you even think of working on yourself when a child is missing?  Sorry, I still can't bring a link over and you guys have shown me plenty of times!!!  Something is very weird in this case.  Maybe he's just lost in the woods like the other little girl a couple of months back.

OK, I wasn't suspicious of Stepmom until you posted this!! OMG, that is the last place I would be. My hinkymeter is starting to get some action. I just think that is incredibly insensitive to be going to the gym to work out....this is beyond frustrating!!

This is what the post looked like (posted JUNE 8, 2010) (I cant screen shot, because I am short on time, but this is the jist of MelisB's find:

 Jennifer Hill  Terri, I'm free afternoons all week long if you still want to meet up. And of course I can make myself free anytime if you need anything at all... We will continue to be here for you guys, just let us know how we can help. *hugs* for each of you
15 hours ago ·

Terri Moulton Horman
Hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until 8pm tonight...
15 hours ago


Jennifer Hill
I figured as much. Txt me when u go, if the timing works out ill keep u company.
8 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/terri.horman#!/terri.horman?v=wall  

[Gypsy DD]

ON JVM - I think it was Mike Brooks - he said that Terri entered her friend's life and ended up taking care of her son. Paraphrased. I don't know if this info is correct or not. That was the early story - but was counter by Desiree. Either way - more confusion.

Also, and Nut might like this. JVM was ripping someone for having a mullet. This is like Billy Ray Cyrus ripping someone for having a mullet.... < grin > ..Like Michael Bolton laff'n behind someone's back for having a mullet.

That quote came from a friend of Terri's, not Desiree. 

[Brandi]

Let's say that the bus driver is on a route and very likely that's 100% true. Let's also say that the bus driver did stop because he / she saw the Hormans standing there. Let's say that the driver stopped to notify them that Kyron was not on the bus. Let's say all that is true.

It's hard to believe that the bus driver, probably the lowest paid school district employee, was the only one that recognized something was wrong. Kyron is no where to be seen all day. His back pack and other materials are around. One student alerted the teacher that he may have gone and gotten a drink of water or in the bathroom. It's hard to fathom that no one noticed that Kyron was missing. This really deifies the laws of believability.
I believe it was Kyron's aunt that said - it was like a vortex or time warped opened and Kyron was gone - paraphrased. I could believe that in this case except people don't dematerialize nor vaporize.

It is sad to think of what this child may have been going through in the 7 hours he was missing and not one person noticed he was missing. I have often wondered if he was hoping someone would come save him....So many people dropped the ball.

...and the very first is the school.

[Tamikosmom]

If what we know now is all they got, I think there is reasonable doubt at this point.

Obviously they do not have a strong case or she would be arrested. As she is out free she can run or she can clam up or she can kill herself . If they believe she is holding the key to Kyrons whereabouts then putting her on the defensive will not get us to Kyron. Ever hear of the saying , you catch more flies with honey then you do vinager? This is why I have said they need to stop the interviews or at least change the focus of the interviews off of Terri and onto Kyron. This is not going to get them what they want in the long run and that is finding Kyron. It is probably making them feel better and that is all good, but it will not get to their ultimate goal.

Logic dictates that the judge would have required Kaine to present the "probable cause" prior to granting him a RO that prevented Terri from having contact with their daughter?

Considering that in the past week Terri has not been detained as a suspect in either the murder for hire plot or the disappearance of Kyron ... I do not know what to think.  Something is wrong with this picture.

Kaine appears to be running the show.  How connected is Tom Young.

Janet

+++++++

Kaine Horman tells judge he thinks Terri Moulton Horman is involved in Kyron's disappearance
Published: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 12:06 PM
Updated: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 1:01 PM

A Multnomah County judge today unsealed the petition for the restraining order which Kaine Horman obtained on June 28, two days after investigators informed him that his wife had offered to pay a landscaper to kill him months before his son's disappearance.
 
"I believe respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me,'' Kaine Horman wrote in his petition. "The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/judge_releases_restraining_ord.html
 

[Rob]

I wrote out a long post earlier from things I re-read on page one, two and three of the first thread. I had all the quote and just decided it was getting too long and monotonous. So, I deleted it.

Here is the short version without quotes and links. They can all easily be found on those pages.

Gina Zimmerman is the PTA President and mother of Madi (I hope I have spelled her name correctly) Madi is the friend of Kyron. Zimmerman is quote many times and she is the person that has given the description of Kyron as timid and following the rules. Says he is a good boy. I don't know how well she knows him, but I would expect that she as the head of the PTA has vast experience with children and knows what she is talking about.

Also quoted was Carol Moulton - Terri's mom and Kyron's (step) grandmother. She is not described as 'step'.
She said that Kyron is not the type to walk away, and he is a bit of a dreamer. Her most compelling point was this - Kyron would not go outside by himself - but he might accompany a friend. Hmm, interesting. And that's a pretty close paraphrase.

Also, according to that early info was the fact that Kyron's class was across the hall from the office IIRC. And this led directly to the south exit.

Rob - not getting your reasoning here at all. Just because a woman is elected PTA President has NOTHING to do with having a vast experience with children. A woman with only 1 child and no real time spent with other kids can still be elected. All anyone has to do is be good with school politics and cliques,and have the time. desire and a little extra money. PTA officials are not unknown to be involved in scandals, either. It has happened before, so even their character can be questionable in some cases. Not accusing this particular lady of anything, but being a PTA President doesn't mean a whole lot. As far as this case goes, this woman is merely a witness. I'm sure she's a great person, and is upset about Kyron, but that's as far as it goes here.
I'm sure LE has interviewed everyone at the school, investigated it well, and it has been determined that Kyron did not leave with another child. The focus is on Terri for a reason. All the evidence points to her as the person behind Kyron's disappearance. LE has information that we don't, and Kyron's parents seem to be certain as well.
Some posters locked in on Terri's innocence, and on Kaine as the bad person in the first few days, and even with all the new information, it seems that opinions are not changing. Kaine's son is missing, his life has been threatened by Terri, and his whole world has been turned upside down by her, and yet.....some people are still determined to bash him. That makes no sense. Kaine is a victim too, and I feel bad for him.

BBM

pdh3 - you're right! I should have said - has more experience than me. LOL.

[Tracygirl]

I wrote out a long post earlier from things I re-read on page one, two and three of the first thread. I had all the quote and just decided it was getting too long and monotonous. So, I deleted it.

Here is the short version without quotes and links. They can all easily be found on those pages.

Gina Zimmerman is the PTA President and mother of Madi (I hope I have spelled her name correctly) Madi is the friend of Kyron. Zimmerman is quote many times and she is the person that has given the description of Kyron as timid and following the rules. Says he is a good boy. I don't know how well she knows him, but I would expect that she as the head of the PTA has vast experience with children and knows what she is talking about.

Also quoted was Carol Moulton - Terri's mom and Kyron's (step) grandmother. She is not described as 'step'.
She said that Kyron is not the type to walk away, and he is a bit of a dreamer. Her most compelling point was this - Kyron would not go outside by himself - but he might accompany a friend. Hmm, interesting. And that's a pretty close paraphrase.

Also, according to that early info was the fact that Kyron's class was across the hall from the office IIRC. And this led directly to the south exit.

Rob - not getting your reasoning here at all. Just because a woman is elected PTA President has NOTHING to do with having a vast experience with children. A woman with only 1 child and no real time spent with other kids can still be elected. All anyone has to do is be good with school politics and cliques,and have the time. desire and a little extra money. PTA officials are not unknown to be involved in scandals, either. It has happened before, so even their character can be questionable in some cases. Not accusing this particular lady of anything, but being a PTA President doesn't mean a whole lot. As far as this case goes, this woman is merely a witness. I'm sure she's a great person, and is upset about Kyron, but that's as far as it goes here.
I'm sure LE has interviewed everyone at the school, investigated it well, and it has been determined that Kyron did not leave with another child. The focus is on Terri for a reason. All the evidence points to her as the person behind Kyron's disappearance. LE has information that we don't, and Kyron's parents seem to be certain as well.
Some posters locked in on Terri's innocence, and on Kaine as the bad person in the first few days, and even with all the new information, it seems that opinions are not changing. Kaine's son is missing, his life has been threatened by Terri, and his whole world has been turned upside down by her, and yet.....some people are still determined to bash him. That makes no sense. Kaine is a victim too, and I feel bad for him.

I am not sure what to think about Kaine. It is hard because he was living with Terri. Desiree I feel as a mother she is suffering guilt for not stopping what I think she felt in her gut. I think she didn't want to rock the boat and cause waves. Who I feel badly for is Kyron....I really do not think he is alive and I haven't since yesterday. I pray to god I am wrong, I want to be wrong.

[Lifesong]

Deenie - Polygraphs are not the unbeatable and not a true judgment on someone guilt or innocence. Some lunatic from Aruba took two of them in Houston and according to Tim Miller passed them both. We know he was lying.

They are a tool - inadmissible in court. What they can do is allow LE to look in other directions if they feel the person was truthful and honest. Of course, some test results can depend on the polygrapher, the questions asked, what order the questions are asked, and the type of test itself.

One of the cases we have been following had the test subject score a minus 11. That's called an epic fail. There are degrees of failure. And of course there is "inconclusive".

I have never heard of a law enforcement agency telling the husband and the ex-wife that the current wife has failed. They just don't share that info. They use it to further the investigation. Then again, you never know with this police department and what has happened to date - but I seriously doubt it happened as described.

I read somewhere that Terri walked out in the middle of the first poly.  That tells me that she got caught lying and rather than answer truthfully she bolted.  That's why the second poly.

Supposedly, in between the two polygraphs she spoke more about her "situation" with the polys and LE than she did about Kyron and trying to find him. 

I believe Kyron's parents when they say that Terri will not help find Kyron by telling the truth about where she was and what she did that day.

I can't blame anyone but Terri for that and I'll stop there.

[no rose colored glasses]

Deenie - Polygraphs are not the unbeatable and not a true judgment on someone guilt or innocence. Some lunatic from Aruba took two of them in Houston and according to Tim Miller passed them both. We know he was lying.

They are a tool - inadmissible in court. What they can do is allow LE to look in other directions if they feel the person was truthful and honest. Of course, some test results can depend on the polygrapher, the questions asked, what order the questions are asked, and the type of test itself.

One of the cases we have been following had the test subject score a minus 11. That's called an epic fail. There are degrees of failure. And of course there is "inconclusive".

I have never heard of a law enforcement agency telling the husband and the ex-wife that the current wife has failed. They just don't share that info. They use it to further the investigation. Then again, you never know with this police department and what has happened to date - but I seriously doubt it happened as described.

Thank-you, that is what I've been trying to get answered, that the police dept doesn't usually share that info with someone, if Terri did fail the poly.

[Tamikosmom]

More old posts:

Just checked stepmom's FB and in reply to someone 5-7 hours ago she states she will be hitting the gym today and didn't get home til 8.  WTF???  Granted I would not react like this but how can you even think of working on yourself when a child is missing?  Sorry, I still can't bring a link over and you guys have shown me plenty of times!!!  Something is very weird in this case.  Maybe he's just lost in the woods like the other little girl a couple of months back.

OK, I wasn't suspicious of Stepmom until you posted this!! OMG, that is the last place I would be. My hinkymeter is starting to get some action. I just think that is incredibly insensitive to be going to the gym to work out....this is beyond frustrating!!

This is what the post looked like (posted JUNE 8, 2010) (I cant screen shot, because I am short on time, but this is the jist of MelisB's find:

 Jennifer Hill  Terri, I'm free afternoons all week long if you still want to meet up. And of course I can make myself free anytime if you need anything at all... We will continue to be here for you guys, just let us know how we can help. *hugs* for each of you
15 hours ago ·

Terri Moulton Horman
Hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until 8pm tonight...
15 hours ago


Jennifer Hill
I figured as much. Txt me when u go, if the timing works out ill keep u company.
8 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/terri.horman#!/terri.horman?v=wall  

There is an image of both Terri and Kaine leaving the gym following a workout.  However ... only Terri is vulified.  Why?

I cannot comprehend why either Terri and/or Kaine would be working out at a gym only days following the disappearance of Kyron.

Janet

[Wyks]

Patricia

I don't believe that anything that Terri has to say will reveal the truth ... the truth she attempted to cover up from the getgo with her lies ... lies discovered by authorities through cell phone records and ... her lies revealed through two failed polygraphs.

My point?  Kaine attempts to control what ANYBODY says to the media regarding all aspects of the case.

Could it be that his motive is to assure that no negative attention is directed on him?

Could it be that that explosed skeletons in his life may reveal that he may indirectly to take responsibility for the disappearance of his son?

Janet

I agree Janet. 

[klaasend]

Lifesong - I'm with you on that

[Wyks]

Mister Kaine may not be the analytical thinker that some have suggested if he has not taken into consideration what can happen with a mentally ill woman under a cloud of suspicion and pressure. Especially since Terri knows what happened to Kyron according to Kaine and Desiree. She could take a load of pills and go to sleep. And there goes any chance for any info from her. Guess he didn't think that far ahead.

Personally, I think it's all a load of BS from Mister Kaine just for pressure and public embarrassment. But that's how he rolls in my opinion.

I loved how he thought the world of Intel was coming to abrupt halt because of his directive. Lmao! That directive was - if anyone knows my business and has heard any water cooler talk - just know I'm talking to the legal department. I think he's rather shallow. Intel has nothing to do with this case except he works there.

The Situation? What the heck lol. It's not a situation. It's a missing child. YOUR child Mister Kaine.

I agree Rob.

[Gypsy DD]

If what we know now is all they got, I think there is reasonable doubt at this point.

Obviously they do not have a strong case or she would be arrested. As she is out free she can run or she can clam up or she can kill herself . If they believe she is holding the key to Kyrons whereabouts then putting her on the defensive will not get us to Kyron. Ever hear of the saying , you catch more flies with honey then you do vinager? This is why I have said they need to stop the interviews or at least change the focus of the interviews off of Terri and onto Kyron. This is not going to get them what they want in the long run and that is finding Kyron. It is probably making them feel better and that is all good, but it will not get to their ultimate goal.

Maybe she is still typing away on the computer to friends...her Mom was said to be there earlier, and her Dad came later.  They may also still be there. Her lawyer visits per a news story yesterday about him pulling up the driveway again.

Hopefully her family has gotten her back on her meds and taken her to get some counseling.

Personally, and this is just an opinion..I don't see her as suicidal.  I see her more in the realm of a Casey Anthony....never admit defeat.  JMHO.

[Deenie]

copied/snipped from Klaas's post

So, instead of taking the bus[/b] near his home off Cornelius Pass Road as usual, he hopped into the car with his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, who drove him to Skyline Elementary School.

They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."

--

That is stating to me ..unless I am wrong. The exhibit was placed the night or day before the Fair, on June 3rd. That the exhibit was set up prior to the morning of June 4th, in the classroom. 
Going back to why Kyron did not ride the bus as normal the morning of June 4th- as Kaine states was his job to take Kyron to the bus stop in the am.
Not pointing fingers just being observant. I don't know what to think at this point.

Does anyone know if anyone has photo's of Tanner's exhibit? Was it next to Kyron's or did his Grandmother go into the classroom of Tanner/Kyron and see the boy's interacting at any point? Even if it were for seconds? That she popped her head in and saw Kyron and Tanner together?  Since Tanner has been put into the middle and stated to be the only one who conversed with Kyron the morning of June 4th.
Not even one teacher ( to my knowledge) has said she/he spoke to Kyron the day of June 4th.. nada. Which is truly perplexing to me ..because Kyron's exhibit was so Grand and stood out. Not one Teacher welcomed him as he entered the day of the 4th and said Kyron your Tree Frog Exhibit is just FANTASTIC and I can't wait for it to be seen ... nothing ..  (( sigh )).

[Tamikosmom]

More old posts:

Just checked stepmom's FB and in reply to someone 5-7 hours ago she states she will be hitting the gym today and didn't get home til 8.  WTF???  Granted I would not react like this but how can you even think of working on yourself when a child is missing?  Sorry, I still can't bring a link over and you guys have shown me plenty of times!!!  Something is very weird in this case.  Maybe he's just lost in the woods like the other little girl a couple of months back.

OK, I wasn't suspicious of Stepmom until you posted this!! OMG, that is the last place I would be. My hinkymeter is starting to get some action. I just think that is incredibly insensitive to be going to the gym to work out....this is beyond frustrating!!

This is what the post looked like (posted JUNE 8, 2010) (I cant screen shot, because I am short on time, but this is the jist of MelisB's find:

 Jennifer Hill  Terri, I'm free afternoons all week long if you still want to meet up. And of course I can make myself free anytime if you need anything at all... We will continue to be here for you guys, just let us know how we can help. *hugs* for each of you
15 hours ago ·

Terri Moulton Horman
Hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until 8pm tonight...
15 hours ago


Jennifer Hill
I figured as much. Txt me when u go, if the timing works out ill keep u company.
8 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/terri.horman#!/terri.horman?v=wall  

There is an image of both Terri and Kaine leaving the gym following a workout.  However ... only Terri is vulified.  Why?

I cannot comprehend why either Terri and/or Kaine would be working out at a gym only days following the disappearance of Kyron.

Janet

Former detective: Parents’ silence not unheard of but not the norm
June 10, 2010

KATU News extended an invitation to Horman’s parents to speak to the media after a reporter found them at a local gym Wednesday after their workout.

But the Horman’s drove off without responding to a question how the media could help.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?


Video Clip

0.50
http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?tab=video

[Tracygirl]

Does us knowing that Terri supposedly didn't pass her poly that she once suffered from PDD, that she may have had an affair, that she may have tried to have Kaine killed, does that lead us any close to finding Kyron? I have been asking myself this question all day. Why are Kaine and Desiree out there giving all of these details yet at the same time say they want the focus on Kyron? Then it dawned on me, Perhaps they are sending messages out to the person they feel may have Kyron. Perhaps they are telling their side of the story in hopes the person who has Kyron will have a change of heart and not help Terri. 

[Gypsy DD]

More old posts:

Just checked stepmom's FB and in reply to someone 5-7 hours ago she states she will be hitting the gym today and didn't get home til 8.  WTF???  Granted I would not react like this but how can you even think of working on yourself when a child is missing?  Sorry, I still can't bring a link over and you guys have shown me plenty of times!!!  Something is very weird in this case.  Maybe he's just lost in the woods like the other little girl a couple of months back.

OK, I wasn't suspicious of Stepmom until you posted this!! OMG, that is the last place I would be. My hinkymeter is starting to get some action. I just think that is incredibly insensitive to be going to the gym to work out....this is beyond frustrating!!

This is what the post looked like (posted JUNE 8, 2010) (I cant screen shot, because I am short on time, but this is the jist of MelisB's find:

 Jennifer Hill  Terri, I'm free afternoons all week long if you still want to meet up. And of course I can make myself free anytime if you need anything at all... We will continue to be here for you guys, just let us know how we can help. *hugs* for each of you
15 hours ago ·

Terri Moulton Horman
Hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until 8pm tonight...
15 hours ago


Jennifer Hill
I figured as much. Txt me when u go, if the timing works out ill keep u company.
8 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/terri.horman#!/terri.horman?v=wall  

There is an image of both Terri and Kaine leaving the gym following a workout.  However ... only Terri is vulified.  Why?

I cannot comprehend why either Terri and/or Kaine would be working out at a gym only days following the disappearance of Kyron.

Janet

That gym was the one Kaine worked out at.  I believe they were both there that day not just to work out..but it was a command center of sorts for people to drop off donations of food, water, etc. for the searchers.  I think that whole issue got out of control.  But that was Kaine's gym per the RO..Terri's gym is 24 Hour Fitness.

[Rob]

"She's been doing what Kaine said all along and he's been telling her to stay quiet." 

And then Kaine turns and is nailing her to the wall for not talking.   I guess not too many want to see the problem in that. 

coming in loud and clear ovah here! Nut posted this one - there was no original date on the article, but she posted it on 6/7/2010 - Reply #33 on: June 07, 2010, 07:11:23 AM Three days later and they're NOT ready to talk? huh?

updated 6/7/2010 3:21:40 PM ET

The boy's parents were not ready to speak, Lt. Mary Lindstrand said Sunday.
msnbc link to updated / original story
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37547980/ns/us_news-life/

[no rose colored glasses]

Local tv stations in Portland, KATU and KPTV were there when Terri and a friend were out somewhere today in a parking lot. I couldn't get the video to work, but supposedly Terri didn't say anything, and the friend was shielding her. I haven't read who the friend was.

[4getUnot]

Let's say that the bus driver is on a route and very likely that's 100% true. Let's also say that the bus driver did stop because he / she saw the Hormans standing there. Let's say that the driver stopped to notify them that Kyron was not on the bus. Let's say all that is true.

It's hard to believe that the bus driver, probably the lowest paid school district employee, was the only one that recognized something was wrong. Kyron is no where to be seen all day. His back pack and other materials are around. One student alerted the teacher that he may have gone and gotten a drink of water or in the bathroom. It's hard to fathom that no one noticed that Kyron was missing. This really deifies the laws of believability.
I believe it was Kyron's aunt that said - it was like a vortex or time warped opened and Kyron was gone - paraphrased. I could believe that in this case except people don't dematerialize nor vaporize.

It is sad to think of what this child may have been going through in the 7 hours he was missing and not one person noticed he was missing. I have often wondered if he was hoping someone would come save him....So many people dropped the ball.

...and the very first is the school.

You got that right!!!!!