Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #4 7/8/10 - 7/11/10

[seahorse]

Either Kaine is the worlds greatest manipulator or they know something that we do not know. I can come up with a million reasons why Kaine would want to throw TH under the bus, but he obviously convinced Desiree, her husband and LE

Wow.
I think Kaine is in possession of a lot more information than we are. He has formed his opinions, and he is making his statements based on things we don't know. LE and the parents of Kyron know way more than they are telling. I certainly don't expect them to divulge more than they should just to satisfy the curiosity of the public.
Desiree's husband is LE, and I'm sure he had it figured out before Kaine did.

I have not seen a lack of "divulging information" where TH is concerned. Kaine seems perfectly willing to paint her in a bad light. The question in my mind is "why"? What was the point tonight talking about her "alleged" post partum depression? He supposedly monitored his wife for 6 months and then he said a year. Then he stated that he did not know what medications she was on and how much she was taken. Then he said that she may still have been depressed and had been hiding it for the last month or two? I just find that whole interview odd at best. I am obviously still on the fence with regards to where Kyron is and what happened to him. I only hope that he is alive and well.

Um....I was saying that Kaine and Desiree have been given information by LE that we, as internet posters, do not have. He can make informed decisions while we are just guessing about a lot of things. Tony is LE, so I'm sure his experience and knowledge is being utilized as well.
Kaine is answering questions that were asked of him, not throwing Terri under the bus. But even if he was, I wouldn't blame him. She tried to hire someone to kill him, and she is involved in his son's disappearance. I don't blame him for no longer wanting to protect her. She does not deserve it. She has caused tremendous harm. She is refusing to help Kyron. Why would Kaine be concerned with Terri's feelings at this point?

Some of the info posters are using to form opinions are nothing more than internet rumors, and miscomprehensions. They appear on one blog, get taken as fact, and make their way around the web. It's very disturbing.

LE does not owe us any information, and I'm sure they have asked Kyron's parents to keep some things to themselves in order to help find Kyron. I think Kaine, Tony and Desiree care about that little boy, and getting him home,more than anything.

Terri is all about protecting herself.

"
I am going to avoid "run away thinking".  SM threw "herself under the Bus, Car or Truck. She is a selfish, self-centered and smart
female, let's hope she doesn't outsmart the Detectives like Misty did.

[no rose colored glasses]

The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said today that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago.
First, that happens, second, postpartum depression, which I figured all along. He watched her closely for months and she seemed better, but doesn't know the meds she was on. If not treated properly it manifests, and obviously to me it did, and look what has happened. Hit man, Kyron gone. And some people, I'm not accusing Kaine, when a family member has a mental illness/disorder, sometimes it is a lot easier to turn your head away, and think it will all get better. It doesn't, and you have this. The woman is mental, hope she is on the right meds, and perhaps then she will talk to her lawyer, but if not I don't see it happening. Somewhere along the way the ball was dropped, what I want to know is what was she doing in that house, was she dilusional, paranoid, violent, focusing inward and depressed, feelings of no self worth. Important and hope she is seeing someone who is treating her, and then maybe answers.

[newfie]

Good Morning monkeys,
 I agree no rose, it does appear she was spinning out of control. We see it with the weight gain, the hiring of someone you barely know to off your husband, the immersion in computer games, etc. How could Kaine not know what medication she was on? Obviously he was not monitoring that closely. Even if it was over a year ago, you would remember some of the details. Did Terri see a counselor? Did Kaine go to her dr. appt.s with her? Post partum depression is serious and can be dangerous. Was she left alone with the children for long periods of time? When was her last doctor appt. re: the depression? I think the ball was dropped and your right no rose, sometimes people turn a blind eye because they have a hard time dealing with the illness.
Did Terri have help from the family?

The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said today that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago.
First, that happens, second, postpartum depression, which I figured all along. He watched her closely for months and she seemed better, but doesn't know the meds she was on. If not treated properly it manifests, and obviously to me it did, and look what has happened. Hit man, Kyron gone. And some people, I'm not accusing Kaine, when a family member has a mental illness/disorder, sometimes it is a lot easier to turn your head away, and think it will all get better. It doesn't, and you have this. The woman is mental, hope she is on the right meds, and perhaps then she will talk to her lawyer, but if not I don't see it happening. Somewhere along the way the ball was dropped, what I want to know is what was she doing in that house, was she dilusional, paranoid, violent, focusing inward and depressed, feelings of no self worth. Important and hope she is seeing someone who is treating her, and then maybe answers.

[Blonde]

I'm just going to post some pictures that Teri had. Could she have killed Kyron and put him in the yard and need all kinds of work done in the yard  so no one would notice. Was the yard search with dogs?


Flower beds by our house that are cleared out. Also trimmed the rhodies. (Terri's words)

Blackberry section #1 cleared. For those who don't know, behind those 3 small trees in the middle you couldn't even see past because there were so many.

Blackberry section #3

[mediamama]

Good Morning monkeys,
 I agree no rose, it does appear she was spinning out of control. We see it with the weight gain, the hiring of someone you barely know to off your husband, the immersion in computer games, etc. How could Kaine not know what medication she was on? Obviously he was not monitoring that closely. Even if it was over a year ago, you would remember some of the details. Did Terri see a counselor? Did Kaine go to her dr. appt.s with her? Post partum depression is serious and can be dangerous. Was she left alone with the children for long periods of time? When was her last doctor appt. re: the depression? I think the ball was dropped and your right no rose, sometimes people turn a blind eye because they have a hard time dealing with the illness.
Did Terri have help from the family?

The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said today that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago.
First, that happens, second, postpartum depression, which I figured all along. He watched her closely for months and she seemed better, but doesn't know the meds she was on. If not treated properly it manifests, and obviously to me it did, and look what has happened. Hit man, Kyron gone. And some people, I'm not accusing Kaine, when a family member has a mental illness/disorder, sometimes it is a lot easier to turn your head away, and think it will all get better. It doesn't, and you have this. The woman is mental, hope she is on the right meds, and perhaps then she will talk to her lawyer, but if not I don't see it happening. Somewhere along the way the ball was dropped, what I want to know is what was she doing in that house, was she dilusional, paranoid, violent, focusing inward and depressed, feelings of no self worth. Important and hope she is seeing someone who is treating her, and then maybe answers.

Much truth in the statements about PPD; however, I was particularly struck by the very genuine way Desiree reacted to questions directed toward Kaine regarding their relationship - as well as the one about Terri's relationship with Kyron. IMO, Desiree has believed for many years that Terri was capable of something awful. She admitted during the presser to having (and here I am paraphrasing) "held her tongue for years" when asked about the difficulty in not saying the things she would really like to say to Terri. So if Terri's behavior had been suspicious or questionable for years, I can only imagine what throwing in a severe bout of PPD might do. We already "know" she's an risk-taker (extreme bodybuilding, alleged affairs, etc): what if she engineered Kyron's disappearance using a thought process like..."Here's a way for me to 'get Kaine back' from his other woman; I'll fake a kidnapping and he'll be consumed with me once again"? Given her attraction to risk combined with the rage PPD can produce, I can easily envision this scenario. Only, now she truly doesn't know where he is, and her one goal in life - getting Kaine to return to her - has dissipated like a wisp of smoke.

On another note, I am also no longer getting a weird vibe from Kaine. In considering it further, frankly, I can easily see my DH presenting himself the same way in, God forbid, this situation. Both seem to be wired to deal with the immediate tasks at hand without allowing much emotion to come through. And I did get a very "genuine" feeling from Kaine during the presser last night; seemed to be very much engaged with Desiree and their shared belief that Kyron is still alive.

All just my $.02.

[no rose colored glasses]

Good Morning monkeys,
 I agree no rose, it does appear she was spinning out of control. We see it with the weight gain, the hiring of someone you barely know to off your husband, the immersion in computer games, etc. How could Kaine not know what medication she was on? Obviously he was not monitoring that closely. Even if it was over a year ago, you would remember some of the details. Did Terri see a counselor? Did Kaine go to her dr. appt.s with her? Post partum depression is serious and can be dangerous. Was she left alone with the children for long periods of time? When was her last doctor appt. re: the depression? I think the ball was dropped and your right no rose, sometimes people turn a blind eye because they have a hard time dealing with the illness.
Did Terri have help from the family?

The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said today that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago.
First, that happens, second, postpartum depression, which I figured all along. He watched her closely for months and she seemed better, but doesn't know the meds she was on. If not treated properly it manifests, and obviously to me it did, and look what has happened. Hit man, Kyron gone. And some people, I'm not accusing Kaine, when a family member has a mental illness/disorder, sometimes it is a lot easier to turn your head away, and think it will all get better. It doesn't, and you have this. The woman is mental, hope she is on the right meds, and perhaps then she will talk to her lawyer, but if not I don't see it happening. Somewhere along the way the ball was dropped, what I want to know is what was she doing in that house, was she dilusional, paranoid, violent, focusing inward and depressed, feelings of no self worth. Important and hope she is seeing someone who is treating her, and then maybe answers.

This bothers me tremendously, and I would like to know if she was continuing to see a doctor. Also, just because she was given medication, doesn't mean it was working, sometimes you have to try several before they work. I would also like to know if she was hurting others, or herself? She may have thought something was happening with Kyron, say with abuse, and she thought she was helping him, if indeed he is somewhere and being taken care of. God only knows what is all going through her mind, and imo, the answers are not going to come from her without proper medication and help.

[Blonde]

ABCNews - GMA

Kyron Horman's Father Says Chances of Wife Being Innocent are 'Small'

Kaine Horman Says Estranged Wife Became Erratic After the Birth of Their Daughter

MIKE von FREMD and SARAH NETTER
PORTLAND, Ore. July 9, 2010

The father of missing Oregon second-grader Kyron Horman said there is little doubt that his estranged wife had something to do with his son's disappearance.

"I think the percentages are so small that I have no optimism in that regard, no," Kaine Horman said when asked if there was any chance his wife, Terri Horman, was innocent.

Horman, who spoke to "Good Morning America" alongside his ex-wife and Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, said Terri Horman seemed to change after the birth of their 19-month-old daughter, Kiara.

"She went through some post-partum depression after the birth and her emotional state was more erratic," Horman said.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-horm...ry?id=11124144

[no rose colored glasses]

mediamama, if Desiree was feeling bad things about Terri for years, why did she not try to get Kyron more often? I admit I don't know a lot about the law, and custody and things, but I know that I would have tried to do something. If Kaine had just a thought about Terri doing harm, why was not more done? Just questions swirling around in my head.

[no rose colored glasses]

ABCNews - GMA

Kyron Horman's Father Says Chances of Wife Being Innocent are 'Small'

Kaine Horman Says Estranged Wife Became Erratic After the Birth of Their Daughter

MIKE von FREMD and SARAH NETTER
PORTLAND, Ore. July 9, 2010

The father of missing Oregon second-grader Kyron Horman said there is little doubt that his estranged wife had something to do with his son's disappearance.

"I think the percentages are so small that I have no optimism in that regard, no," Kaine Horman said when asked if there was any chance his wife, Terri Horman, was innocent.

Horman, who spoke to "Good Morning America" alongside his ex-wife and Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, said Terri Horman seemed to change after the birth of their 19-month-old daughter, Kiara.

"She went through some post-partum depression after the birth and her emotional state was more erratic," Horman said.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-horm...ry?id=11124144

Thank-you, and unfortunately there will be much thought inside Kaine's head about not doing enough to get Terri help. And add to that, her emotional state was more erratic, so who knows what she was like before the birth, and then after the birth, everything started coming undone.

[klaasend]

NEW BLINK POST:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/09/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-kaine-horman-points-a-finger-directly-at-terri-horman/

Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Kaine Horman Points A Finger Directly At Terri Horman

[no rose colored glasses]

NEW BLINK POST:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/09/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-kaine-horman-points-a-finger-directly-at-terri-horman/

Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Kaine Horman Points A Finger Directly At Terri Horman

Thank-you.

[mediamama]

mediamama, if Desiree was feeling bad things about Terri for years, why did she not try to get Kyron more often? I admit I don't know a lot about the law, and custody and things, but I know that I would have tried to do something. If Kaine had just a thought about Terri doing harm, why was not more done? Just questions swirling around in my head.

I know, I agree, but maybe she has been conflicted this entire time - feeling something 'off' about Terri yet knowing that Kyron and Kaine deserved to be in one another's lives as well. And I guess I just don't know what she could have said that would have convinced Kaine or a court to reevaluate their custody agreement - "I have a weird vibe about your new wife"? The thought that Desiree has something in her past has crossed my mind too (I am referring to her stint in Canada here); perhaps she knew if she played the 'squeaky wheel' too loudly or too often, said past issue might surface and bite her in the a$$.

I don't know. What a mess. I feel so badly for Desiree, and I am so eager for the hour that Kyron comes home and we can stop this horrid speculation.

[klaasend]

Are there any locals here that know anything about Suave Island? From the pictures I have seen sure is gorgeous. "IF" TH did something to Kyron and he is hidden somewhere, perhaps Suave Island, where could it be?

That is exactly why many of the LE and private searches have been in the Sauvie Island area but it's quite large.

[no rose colored glasses]

mediamama, if Desiree was feeling bad things about Terri for years, why did she not try to get Kyron more often? I admit I don't know a lot about the law, and custody and things, but I know that I would have tried to do something. If Kaine had just a thought about Terri doing harm, why was not more done? Just questions swirling around in my head.

I know, I agree, but maybe she has been conflicted this entire time - feeling something 'off' about Terri yet knowing that Kyron and Kaine deserved to be in one another's lives as well. And I guess I just don't know what she could have said that would have convinced Kaine or a court to reevaluate their custody agreement - "I have a weird vibe about your new wife"? The thought that Desiree has something in her past has crossed my mind too (I am referring to her stint in Canada here); perhaps she knew if she played the 'squeaky wheel' too loudly or too often, said past issue might surface and bite her in the a$$.

I don't know. What a mess. I feel so badly for Desiree, and I am so eager for the hour that Kyron comes home and we can stop this horrid speculation.

I know, and I'm sure no matter what her thoughts were on Terri, she didn't think they would escalate to all this. It has crossed my mind also about Desiree, could very well be something there as well. What really bothers me is for a lot of people for whatever their reasons may be, embarrassment, shame, don't want other people to know, they would rather ignore mental health issues, and then when something bad happens they seem surprised. Maybe someday mental health issues will be taken more seriously just like other health issues, within families.

[klaasend]

FYI - my husband takes two medications for blood pressure.  I watch when he is running low and over the internet refill them.  Don't ask me the names of them though, I couldn't tell you, and neither could he.

[4getUnot]

In the interview where Kaine was talking about that morning, Kyron having fed the cat, etc.....  While he was saying all that, he referred twice to the 'car'.  He drove the car to work that morning.  Have only heard it reported that they own the white truck and the red mustang, do they own another 'car'? 

And we've heard from LE that Terri took the white truck that morning to give Kyron a ride to school. 

So the picture I have in my mind is that Kaine took the red mustang to work while Terri/Kyron took the white truck to school. 

Did she take her cell phone with her that day, or did she leave it in the car?  The car that Kaine took to work. 

Terri's cell phone supposedly pinged from/near Sauvie Island that morning, at a time she had told LE she was somewhere else.  (According to locals, there are no cell towers on Sauvie Island.  Near it, in the water, but not on it).     

(reported by local - rumor?) Red mustang supposedly spotted on Sauvie Island at 11a, supposedly reported to LE by witnesses.  How many red mustangs are in that area?
   
*If* it was her red mustang that was supposedly seen on Sauvie, who was driving it at around 11a?  I would think it would still have been parked at Intel.  Kaine reports that he got home about 1.45p. 

Did Terri hop in the white truck at school, drive it to his work at some point that morning, trade truck for car, leave driving the red mustang?  If so, did she drive to Sauvie, and if so, why would she tell LE she was somewhere else?   
 
Or... could Kaine have been driving the red mustang, with her cell phone inside, at/near Sauvie that day?  If so, what the heck was he doing there, rather than being at work as reported? 

Anyone know how close Intel is to Sauvie Island?  If close by, could her phone have pinged from the red mustang, parked at his work? 

Dunno if any of these questions have answers yet.. Most are rhetorical. 

Good morning Monks!!!  Still catching up here but would like to comment on the cell phone.  I think you bring up a valid point that even though there may have been pings we can only determine where the cell phone was but not who was operating it.  The same could be said for emails.  We can't see who was sitting at the computer or who was holding the cell phone.  Another point to think about (in the midst of all the rumors) IF Kaine was having an affair could it be that Terri was suspicious and maybe checking up on him.  Maybe she heard rumors but didn't know if it was true.  Just a thought...

[no rose colored glasses]

FYI - my husband takes two medications for blood pressure.  I watch when he is running low and over the internet refill them.  Don't ask me the names of them though, I couldn't tell you, and neither could he.

And I understand that, I don't pay attention to my husband's medications. But if he had some mental issues and was all over the place being erratic I would want to make sure I was paying attention to his medications so he was not harming himself or others. Which is exactly what I do with my daughter's medications. Some of these medications need to be monitored closely with blood work and a doctor.

[Babybear]

Wyks - the way I see it Kaine had no idea that Terri had tried to hire someone to kill him.  I imagine the whole thing came as quite a shock.  That coupled with knowing that Terri had failed the first poly and LE telling them (Kaine and Kaira) that they suspected Terri was also responsible for Kyron missing and that they should distance themselves would be enough for me to move out as well.

Did LE tell Kaine to get out before they attempted the sting?  If LE told Kaine to leave what else could he do but leave?  Now he'd like to get back into his home with Kiara and of course, Terri needs to leave. 

I don't have a problem with this.

I don't either klaas. For all LE knew....Terri could've hired someone else, and Kaine was in imminent danger, so they had to tell him to go to another location and take the baby for their own safety. Terri is a dangerous person right now, IMHO. No one can say what she will do, or what her plans are.
I don't get all the blame being placed on Kaine. I would run too, if I discovered what he did, and I'd make sure my baby was safe. That had to be his first priority. But now Terri needs to get out, and let Kiara have some semblance of normalcy by being at home. Toddlers need routine, and this baby has suffered a lot of upheaval recently.

ITA Klaas and pdh3.  I have seen nothing in Kaine's behaviour which would merit such hatred from people who don't know him and likely will never know him. My personal code of ethics wouldn't allow that. Kaine left and took the baby around 1:30.  The attempted sting took place in the evening, at the time of the two 911 calls. It is logical to assume that Kaine took the baby and left because he was advised by LE to do so.  After all there was a possibility, if not probability, that his life was in danger.  One supposes some would wish him to have stayed there and gotten murdered.  Under these circumstances and with what appears to be Terri's aberrant  behaviour, it was prudent for him to want to protect his baby and himself since it appears he was unable to protect Kyron from Terri.

It seems to me that to some, Kaine represents the transference of a personal experience, a bad marriage, an unhappy divorce, poor parentling,a lack of support, etc.  For some reason, and it hasn't happened to this extent before in my experience, Kaine is the person in whom many have a great deal of emotion invested with no possibility that he is an anquished, decent person who is suffering because his child has been taken.

I have seen none of this "Controlling" nature from Kaine.  I believe he and Desiree are following instructions of LE.  One can argue whether or not LE has done the best job they can, but as for me, I don't see anyone in this saga other than Terri who has acted inappropriately.

Kaine bought that house  prior to his marriage to Terri.  Because of that and because he is the sole owner, it is not part of marital property.  If I were sharing my house with a person out to have me disposed of, I believe the first thing I would do is take my children and leave and sort out residence later, which is what Kaine appears to be doing.

These facts and only these facts remain and are indisputable:

Terri was the last person known to have been with Kyron that morning.
Kyron was not present when class started for the day.
No one has reported seeing Kyron after class started.
Terri's cellphone pinged from Sauvie Island, which is not the location at which she claimed to be.
Whatever happened, happened that morning.

I am somewhat amused at the remarks about "Engineers' minds."  My late husband was an Orthopedic surgeon.  I can think of no occupation which requires more complete attention to the business at hand. And, of course, dealing with life and death, he had to compartmentalize his emotions.  Most of the time, unless he were dealing with a very seriously ill patient, he did not bring his work home and one could not wish for a more loving and attentive husband and father. It isn't possible to generalize.  All people are different in some way or other.  IMO Kaine's profession has nothing whatever to do with his worth as a human being.

[Kat_Gram]

Some medications for depression aren't to be stopped suddenly either.
This is the first thing Kaine has said that makes any sense. PPD.
Were they talking about a divorce before Kyron went missing is my questons and did he ever say where Kiara was that morning ?

[Peace]

Peace -
I like the way you post, so I'd like to add my thoughts.

Terri hasn't been charged with anything.  If they had the goods, she'd have been charged by now.
The police aren't saying much because, IMO, they know they've screwed up the investigation.
The Lawn Man, it's just his supposed word against her word.  They cancel each other out without proof.  IMO
LE has said that they did investigate Kristian pertaining to this case.  He's already in jail, so if something's up, they aren't going to be in a hurry to charge him just yet. IMO
Kaine's mention of a "safe house" (good catch by the poster who made some very good points).
Desiree says Kyron is alive.  She's appealing to Terri and says to "do it for TH's kids)

I can envision  a scenario where TH believes either Kaine or Kristian have molested/or been "inappropriate" with Kyron.  She passes him on to a "safe house".  She can't pass a poly because she has guilty knowledge, but doesn't truly know where Kyron is.  LE can't charge her without proof, that's why there is no movement.  Kaine trumped up the RO (IMO) to make her look like she's a liar so that when she claims abuse, he can say "look, she's lying AGAIN".

I think that would tie up the ends for me and that may be a theory I could subscribe to.  Why did they hesitate at today's presser when asked if TH may have had an accomplice?  Maybe they suspect Tanner's  ex-stepmom but didn't want to say it?

This would explain their appealing to her emotions and morals. You wouldn't do so with a sociopath/psychopath. Great catch with "safe house"