Natalee Case Discussion #844 7/31/10 - 8/29/2010

[texasmom]

Through the years Joran van der Sloot would keep telling and recanting tales about what happened that fateful night.  But would his lies finally catch up with him?

Who is the real Joran van der Sloot?

Video Peter R. DeVries
"He thinks that he is superior to other people, to the police to the justice system, to the girls he's dating with; he is superior to even his own parents.  Joran is a very great manipulator."

Stephen Diamond, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
These individuals are extremely skilled at manipulating the world to get what they want, in fact they can even manipulate very experienced forensic psychologists and psychiatrists.

In September 2005, two days after being set free due to lack of evidence in the Holloway case; Joran returned to the Netherlands to study International Business in his hometown of Arnhem.  But Joran wasn't much of a student.  According to Overboord, a book about van der Sloot, Joran spent most of his time in college smoking marijuana, visiting the casinos, and hitting on women.

Video of Bryan Burrough
Special Correspondent, Vanity Fair
"This is a kid for whom priorities one, two, three, four, and five are me, me, me, me, and me."

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Someone like van der Sloot wants sensation all the time, they want constant stimulation."

Video
Elizabeth E. Byars
Author, Overboord
"He really derives a great sense of power out of what he's doing.  Whether or not he committed the crime is immaterial, he's enjoying the fruits of what happened."

Joran continued to make conflicting confessions regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  On Fox News Channel he said he sold Natalee into white slavery to a fellow gambler.

Joran
"He would give me ten thousand dollars.  And he came and he just handed me a bag, grabbed the girl by the arm and he went to the boat that he had in the water."

But before the program aired, Joran retracted his confession.

Video of Bryan Burrough
Special Correspondent, Vanity Fair
"Well the question has always been...if he essentially got away with it then there's no sense that justice is anymore breathing on his back...why on earth would he keep talking about it?  He obviously likes the attention." 

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Most people want to keep a low profile, want to just blend back into society; but you just can't hold Joran down...he's constantly on TV...constantly promoting himself in one way or another."

Among the many people who didn't buy Joran's various stories was a cagey ex-con named Patrick van der Eem.

Video
Elizabeth E. Byars
Author, Overboord
"Patrick is a former criminal.  He came across Joran at a casino one night and they're both from Aruba originally.  He started up a conversation and decided that he would be able to get Joran to talk and tell him what happened to Natalee.  He went to the police, the police couldn't help him and they suggested he go see Peter R. DeVries."

Peter R. DeVries is an experienced and respected investigative reporter.  He's the host of a very popular television show in Holland.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"Patrick van der Eem contacted me and said well I'm very close to Joran van der Sloot and when he's ever going to confess in the Natalee Holloway case, he will do it to me."

Their plan was to secretly rig Van der Eem's Range Rover with hidden audio and video equipment, and hopefully get a confession from Joran.  Patrick van der Eem and Peter R. DeVries are convinced that during one of their conversations, Joran told the only true story he's ever told of what happened on the beach.

Video of Joran In Range Rover (In Dutch,translated on screen)
"So I walked her down to the beach.  We started kissing, she looked pretty unhealthy.  She was really pale."

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"He is describing Natalee in her last moments and he's showing with his body language what happened at that moment and he's saying well Patrick you don't believe it but she started to shake like this."

Video of Joran In Range Rover (In Dutch,translated on screen)
"And then suddenly, Patrick...I don't know what happened precisely.  I thought, what is happening here?   (Patrick says) What did you do next Joran?  I stayed with her, there was no one there.  Patrick, it was really deserted.  (Patrick says) Naturally, it was in the night, Joran.  So I talked to her, I was talking, talking and she said nothing, nothing."

In the taped confession Joran admitted that Natalee died in his arms.  But when Dutch authorities examined the tapes, they deemed the evidence insufficient to arrest Joran.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"He didn't admit that he killed her.  He didn't say he murdered her, he only said well she died in my arms and I panicked and well I was thinking to dispose of the body; and well that's not a serious crime in our legal system...that was a problem. 

When Joran's bombshell confession was aired on Peter's television program in 2008, it attracted 7 million viewers.  Just days later Joran checked himself into a psychiatric hospital in Holland.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"It was part of his plan to neutralize the confession...so it wasn't because he was really interested in medication or things like that, it was his way out."

[texasmom]

I'm starting to see double, I'll have to finish after I get some sleep.   

I knew it would take a while, but it's longer than I thought.

Sorry...

[texasmom]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011636,00.html

10 Questions for Nancy Grace



Thursday, Aug. 19, 2010

snipped 

What are your thoughts on the Natalee Holloway case? —Cynthia Montavon, Berwyn, Ill.

The death of Joran van der Sloot's latest victim lies solely at the door of the Aruban justice system, for not seeking justice for Natalee's murder. Van der Sloot's done everything short of taking out a billboard that says "I killed Natalee."

Worth a repeat, IMO.
 

[texasmom]

We won't give up...
Natalee and Stephany,
We want JUSTICE!

[MisGivings]

Two police officers also the confrontation between the family Van der Sloot and Holloway were present, can that recall and that would cause or one of the reasons why the claim that Paul van der Sloot after submitting ultimately rejected. So there is reason to believe that Paul van der Sloot Joran at 04.00 hours at Mac Donald has picked up. What was Joran at that time? Was he alone? And how does this relate to the computer login times and the witness that Joran and his father about the same time at the home of Eddy Mansur saw? Joran would first have walked back home with his father and then the car in reverse are gone? It seems one or the other, but witnesses can make mistakes, especially in times.

Is Eddy Mansur's house by the Monserat pond ?

I don't even know who Eddy Mansur is, but the one witness lived down the street from the Monserrat Pond,
and said that he saw Joran and Paulus in the red jeep at 4:00AM, after he saw Joran alone with one shoe and muddy clothes  I think we heard that witness was named Jenny, but not sure of that. 
If Eddy Mansur also saw them, that makes two witnesses.

Well, then, ARUBA SAVE YOUR ASS BY SEARCHING Monserrat Pond.

[MisGivings]

Sent to me by Spooky!  Thanks Spooky!  Photos of the hearing today:







Press release through translator:

Superior Court of Lima
PRESS RELEASE N ° 260 - 2010-OPII-CSJL

This morning, lawyers for the parties presented their arguments

THE DECISION OF THE COURT TO VOTE
ASSESSMENT OF HABEAS CORPUS Van der Sloot

 Judge of First Instance declared unfounded constitutional defense of the citizen brought by Dutchman

Was to vote the decision of the judges of the Third Criminal Chamber Prison Inmates in the Court of Lima, to confirm or revoke the decision of first instance declared unfounded the habeas corpus that Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot filed against chief Homicide Division of the PNP, Colonel Miguel Angel Canlla prayed, and the provincial prosecutor of Lima, Dr. Ninfa Espinoza Sotomayor.

By making use of the word, Maximum Highness Navarro, Van der Sloot's lawyer, requested that decision be revoked and declared void the scope of the police investigation and prosecutor against his client as the alleged perpetrator of the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez.

Counsel argued that during the tax investigation and police attempt was made on individual liberty, due process and other constitutional rights of his client.

For its part, the attorney of the National Police of Peru, Dr. Marco Quicaño Tenorio, requested confirmation of the resolution 20 th Criminal Court of Lima issued by Dr. Wilder Casique Alvizuri who, on 25 June last, declared unfounded the constitutional .

The prosecutor denied that the tax police investigation and have violated the constitutional rights of citizens Dutchman, while denying that this has been the victim of physical or psychological abuse.

It is noted that the audience did not attend the attorney of the Public Ministry, which was to sustain the defense of the Provincial Prosecutor of Lima, Ninfa Espinoza Sotomayor.

In the following days, within the time fixed by law, the High Court presided by Dr. Rita Meza Walde and composed of senior judges, and Malzon Arturo Zapata Carvajal Urbina La Torre decide whether to confirm or revoke the decision of the judge Casique Alvizuri.

Lima, August 20, 2010
OFFICE OF MEDIA AND IMAGE

I don't know about the pink & white tie on that one guy, but I do see that the Judge is Female.
I believe our dear sporter is going to fry.

[jjayinthemorning]

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"What usually happens in cases like this is there's something sexual that causes some type of rage.  Either the victim does not want to engage in sex or the offender himself can't perform sexually and feels humiliated in some way that is responded to in an outburst of rage and violence."

Oh this makes so much sense!!!
Remember when he was asked what he did after Stephany was lying on the floor (?) err on the computer, he said he masturbated. So he was in some state of arrousal at some point.

I suspect that all the action with being a pimp was compensation for his sexual inadequacies. And men will go a long way to cover up their little sexual issues, it's a deep dark secret.

[jjayinthemorning]

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Someone like van der Sloot wants sensation all the time, they want constant stimulation."
 

Goes along with the sexual thing. Gambling gets boring at some point and then he wants sex. As long as he isn't rejected he's a charming and sweet kid. As long as he keeps his stamina he's not frustrated. Testosterone is a funny thing.
Hmmm, wonder what his card playing cell mate thinks of that.

[can]

texasmom - THANK YOU!   

[San]

Peter looks cute in his jeans and his paw paw sweater.

 

[San]

Through the years Joran van der Sloot would keep telling and recanting tales about what happened that fateful night.  But would his lies finally catch up with him?

Who is the real Joran van der Sloot?

Video Peter R. DeVries
"He thinks that he is superior to other people, to the police to the justice system, to the girls he's dating with; he is superior to even his own parents.  Joran is a very great manipulator."

Stephen Diamond, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
These individuals are extremely skilled at manipulating the world to get what they want, in fact they can even manipulate very experienced forensic psychologists and psychiatrists.

In September 2005, two days after being set free due to lack of evidence in the Holloway case; Joran returned to the Netherlands to study International Business in his hometown of Arnhem.  But Joran wasn't much of a student.  According to Overboord, a book about van der Sloot, Joran spent most of his time in college smoking marijuana, visiting the casinos, and hitting on women.

Video of Bryan Burrough
Special Correspondent, Vanity Fair
"This is a kid for whom priorities one, two, three, four, and five are me, me, me, me, and me."

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Someone like van der Sloot wants sensation all the time, they want constant stimulation."

Video
Elizabeth E. Byars
Author, Overboord
"He really derives a great sense of power out of what he's doing.  Whether or not he committed the crime is immaterial, he's enjoying the fruits of what happened."

Joran continued to make conflicting confessions regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  On Fox News Channel he said he sold Natalee into white slavery to a fellow gambler.

Joran
"He would give me ten thousand dollars.  And he came and he just handed me a bag, grabbed the girl by the arm and he went to the boat that he had in the water."

But before the program aired, Joran retracted his confession.

Video of Bryan Burrough
Special Correspondent, Vanity Fair
"Well the question has always been...if he essentially got away with it then there's no sense that justice is anymore breathing on his back...why on earth would he keep talking about it?  He obviously likes the attention." 

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Most people want to keep a low profile, want to just blend back into society; but you just can't hold Joran down...he's constantly on TV...constantly promoting himself in one way or another."

Among the many people who didn't buy Joran's various stories was a cagey ex-con named Patrick van der Eem.

Video
Elizabeth E. Byars
Author, Overboord
"Patrick is a former criminal.  He came across Joran at a casino one night and they're both from Aruba originally.  He started up a conversation and decided that he would be able to get Joran to talk and tell him what happened to Natalee.  He went to the police, the police couldn't help him and they suggested he go see Peter R. DeVries."

Peter R. DeVries is an experienced and respected investigative reporter.  He's the host of a very popular television show in Holland.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"Patrick van der Eem contacted me and said well I'm very close to Joran van der Sloot and when he's ever going to confess in the Natalee Holloway case, he will do it to me."

Their plan was to secretly rig Van der Eem's Range Rover with hidden audio and video equipment, and hopefully get a confession from Joran.  Patrick van der Eem and Peter R. DeVries are convinced that during one of their conversations, Joran told the only true story he's ever told of what happened on the beach.

Video of Joran In Range Rover (In Dutch,translated on screen)
"So I walked her down to the beach.  We started kissing, she looked pretty unhealthy.  She was really pale."

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"He is describing Natalee in her last moments and he's showing with his body language what happened at that moment and he's saying well Patrick you don't believe it but she started to shake like this."

Video of Joran In Range Rover (In Dutch,translated on screen)
"And then suddenly, Patrick...I don't know what happened precisely.  I thought, what is happening here?   (Patrick says) What did you do next Joran?  I stayed with her, there was no one there.  Patrick, it was really deserted.  (Patrick says) Naturally, it was in the night, Joran.  So I talked to her, I was talking, talking and she said nothing, nothing."

In the taped confession Joran admitted that Natalee died in his arms.  But when Dutch authorities examined the tapes, they deemed the evidence insufficient to arrest Joran.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"He didn't admit that he killed her.  He didn't say he murdered her, he only said well she died in my arms and I panicked and well I was thinking to dispose of the body; and well that's not a serious crime in our legal system...that was a problem. 

When Joran's bombshell confession was aired on Peter's television program in 2008, it attracted 7 million viewers.  Just days later Joran checked himself into a psychiatric hospital in Holland.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"It was part of his plan to neutralize the confession...so it wasn't because he was really interested in medication or things like that, it was his way out."

Texasmom thank you.

[San]

I only saw part of this show.  John Ludwick is a weirdo.  He is a very creepy person.  His actions are strange.  Always smirking and laughing a little when answering a question.

Aline is an idiot and she looked terrible.l

[texasmom]

I only saw part of this show.  John Ludwick is a weirdo.  He is a very creepy person.  His actions are strange.  Always smirking and laughing a little when answering a question.

Aline is an idiot and she looked terrible.l

I agree about John Ludwick.  Weird and creepy!  I haven't come to it yet in the transcript but iirc he only met Joran after Paulus died and Joran returned to Aruba for the memorial.  Why they interviewed him as someone who really knew Joran is beyond me.  Even though Joran ended up living with him during some of his last days in Aruba, he only knew him for a few months.

And Aline is just a ho looking for her five minutes of fame, any way she can get it.  MHO

I mean has Joran ever said she was his "girlfriend"?  IMO she was more like the girl that he screwed around on all his other girlfriend's with.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran610.htm

 

To your question as to how many girlfriends I have, I answer you the following. I only have one girlfriend and her name is "Florencia METZ". Before I had "Elaine" and before that "Carmen JACAPOUCHI" And she works in the Hospital and at the moment if Freddy's girlfriend. I have been having girlfriends since I was 14 and her name was "Jillian JOHNSON" and she now lives in the States. Her father had built the "Marriot Hotel" and she and I were both enrolled at the "International school". I also had a girlfriend named "Melody GRANADILLO". I have had five serious girlfriends in total since I was 14.

[texasmom]

o.k. back to work on the transcript, I've had my first cup of coffee! 

Thanks everyone for the "thanks", I really appreciate it!   

I'm just going to pick up where I left off in the show, and I'll continue to post segments along the way.

[Scatty]

I only saw part of this show.  John Ludwick is a weirdo.  He is a very creepy person.  His actions are strange.  Always smirking and laughing a little when answering a question.

Aline is an idiot and she looked terrible.l

I agree about John Ludwick.  Weird and creepy!  I haven't come to it yet in the transcript but iirc he only met Joran after Paulus died and Joran returned to Aruba for the memorial.  Why they interviewed him as someone who really knew Joran is beyond me.  Even though Joran ended up living with him during some of his last days in Aruba, he only knew him for a few months.

And Aline is just a ho looking for her five minutes of fame, any way she can get it.  MHO

I mean has Joran ever said she was his "girlfriend"?  IMO she was more like the girl that he screwed around on all his other girlfriend's with.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran610.htm

 

To your question as to how many girlfriends I have, I answer you the following. I only have one girlfriend and her name is "Florencia METZ". Before I had "Elaine" and before that "Carmen JACAPOUCHI" And she works in the Hospital and at the moment if Freddy's girlfriend. I have been having girlfriends since I was 14 and her name was "Jillian JOHNSON" and she now lives in the States. Her father had built the "Marriot Hotel" and she and I were both enrolled at the "International school". I also had a girlfriend named "Melody GRANADILLO". I have had five serious girlfriends in total since I was 14.

Aline was just a booty call who did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.

[San]

I only saw part of this show.  John Ludwick is a weirdo.  He is a very creepy person.  His actions are strange.  Always smirking and laughing a little when answering a question.

Aline is an idiot and she looked terrible.l

I agree about John Ludwick.  Weird and creepy!  I haven't come to it yet in the transcript but iirc he only met Joran after Paulus died and Joran returned to Aruba for the memorial.  Why they interviewed him as someone who really knew Joran is beyond me.  Even though Joran ended up living with him during some of his last days in Aruba, he only knew him for a few months.

And Aline is just a ho looking for her five minutes of fame, any way she can get it.  MHO

I mean has Joran ever said she was his "girlfriend"?  IMO she was more like the girl that he screwed around on all his other girlfriend's with.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran610.htm

 

To your question as to how many girlfriends I have, I answer you the following. I only have one girlfriend and her name is "Florencia METZ". Before I had "Elaine" and before that "Carmen JACAPOUCHI" And she works in the Hospital and at the moment if Freddy's girlfriend. I have been having girlfriends since I was 14 and her name was "Jillian JOHNSON" and she now lives in the States. Her father had built the "Marriot Hotel" and she and I were both enrolled at the "International school". I also had a girlfriend named "Melody GRANADILLO". I have had five serious girlfriends in total since I was 14.

Aline was just a booty call who did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.

I agree with both of you.

Joran was living with John his final days in aruba because he has a blowup with Anita.  I guess it was such a big blow up that he went over Anita's house and left her a note before he left aruba.  Anita is a liar just like her son the monster.

[texasmom]

Video
Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"He wasn't psychotic, he didn't need medication, and he didn't want to change.  Van der Sloot is quite pleased with himself." 

Not long after Joran left the mental facility, he also disavowed his confession.  Joran moved to Thailand where he enrolled in a university but he had other things on his mind.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"Joran moved to Thailand and then one day I was contacted by a Dutch guy, and he said Joran is trying to set up a gang in women trafficking; so that's the moment we decided to do another hidden camera operation on Joran but this time in Thailand."

Joran had no idea that Peter's cameras were once again secretly recording him.

Video from Peter R. DeVries Hidden Camera Operation in Thailand
Girl says:  I like dancing, and (something about) fifteen thousand dollars.
Joran:  But look at what you have to do for that...for here you have to shake your ass...that's all you have to do.  If I could shake my ass for fifteen thousand dollars, I would shake my ass.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"Joran was acting like a pimp there and he said I have a job for you for modeling and singing and dancing in clubs."

Video from Peter R. DeVries Hidden Camera Operation in Thailand
Joran:  You talk to the guys, you make them feel good.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"And when they got interested then he was telling them...well you will have to work in brothels and you will have to go to Amsterdam."

In November 2008 DeVries aired the Thailand tapes of Joran.  The next day Thai authorities asked for a transcript of the program.

Peter R. DeVries
Dutch Investigative Reporter
"I think I might be the third person he's going to...to kill."

Things were going downhill for Joran.  He dropped out of school, bought a coffeeshop, but he was still at loose ends.  He decided to contact Jaap Amesz, a larger than life Dutch reality show champion.

Jaap Amesz
Dutch Television Personality
"Joran emailed me, so I felt hey here's this weird guy who is a fan of me, so maybe I can get him to talk...and to like tell me more about the Holloway case so the police can solve it; because the whole world is waiting for that case to be solved."

Jaap helped Joran by paying off some of his debts.  He and Joran became closer.

Jaap Amesz
Dutch Television Personality
"I have seen two sides of Joran, I have seen like a regular young guy...I also have seen a Joran who can switch within one conversation from a relaxed guy to someone who is very angry.  He's like a little child and wants his way right now."

Joran came up with another one of his countless stories.  He told Jaap that while intoxicated Natalee Holloway fell to her death from a balcony.  It was an accident.  He said he and a friend took the body to a local bird sanctuary and left it in the swamp there.  Jaap convinced Joran to appear on his television program "Terror Jaap" and to take a lie detector test to prove his story.

Jaap Amesz
Dutch Television Personality
"Joran's objectives with the polygraph test were clear you know.  He thought he was so smart, so sophisticated he could bend and twist the test in his favor like he was superior you know."

Aad Schalke, an experienced private investigator, and polygraph expert Annette Heldens administered the test.

Annette Heldens
Polygraph Expert
"I asked him, did you search on the internet how to beat a polygraph?  He told us, no I didn't...but he did.  (While administering the test) Regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway do you intend to answer all questions truthfully?"

Joran:  yes

Aad Schalke
Private Investigator, Schalke & Partners
"Two big questions we asked to Joran were...Are you involved in the death of Natalee Holloway?

Joran:  no

Aad Schalke
Private Investigator, Schalke & Partners
"And secondly...Are you involved in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?

Joran:  no

Aad Schalke
Private Investigator, Schalke & Partners
"And he said no to those questions."

Jaap Amesz
Dutch Television Personality
"So we confronted Joran like well here we have like some tables and it's all very specific and you're cheating the test...you're trying to cheat it...you're trying to manipulate it you know.

Annette Heldens
Polygraph Expert
"But still we had enough results to conclude that Joran was lying."

Jaap Amesz
Dutch Television Personality
"I confronted him with like deep emotions and (can't understand this part...listened several times)"

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Unfortunately there's a component to his personality that involves rage, and he could be set off if the right or correct trigger is ignited."

And that's exactly what happened when the polygraph proved that Joran was lying.  When his facade of control was shattered Joran exploded in a revealing outburst.

Aad Schalke
Private Investigator, Schalke & Partners
"I was not really surprised when I heard that he'd probably killed another girl, because when he's out of control he can be dangerous."

[texasmom]

No matter what corner of the globe Joran van der Sloot traveled to he found his personal demons soon followed.  When his father died unexpectedly in February, 2010, Joran sold his failing coffeeshop in Thailand, flew back to Aruba and moved in with his mother.  A few days after he arrived Joran met John Ludwick.

Video of John Ludwick
"I told him I recognized him and he gave me his phone number and asked if I wanted to hang out, and we ended up hanging out.  About two days after I'd first met Joran is when his dad's memorial was being held in Aruba and he invited me to go so I went and I was actually his only friend his age there.  That's when right from the beginning he knew I was a real friend because I showed up at his dad's memorial and I just had met him."

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Interestingly many other individuals will attach themselves to psychopaths.  So they can often be charming, they can be somewhat charismatic, and they can find that a lot of people want to associate with them."

Joran soon slipped into his old habits.

Video of John Ludwick
"When we'd go out to bars and stuff some girls would recognize him you know and want to talk to him, and be attracted to the celebrity if you call it...I mean he kind of liked the notoriety, you know he'd get them drinks, they'd hug on him and stuff; and they'd want to hang out with him later on.  I remember one time like probably two days after I met him, we're hanging out at the Excelsior casino at the Holiday Inn...the same place he met Natalee...and later that night we'd walked along the beach back behind the Marriott which is the area he said he was with Natalee...and you know we met some girls there and we picked them up.  That was just weird in my head like man I was just in the same casino and just the same spot that all this stuff happened with Natalee...and I'm with Joran doing the same stuff like...this is crazy."

Around this time the relationship became very tense between Joran and his mother.

Video of John Ludwick
"He had got home at like 6 in the morning from at the casino with me and she was sitting on his bed waiting for him.  And she got in a big fuss you know...you lied to me...all this stuff."

After being confronted by his mother, Joran moved in with Ludwick and soon van der Sloot started talking about what had happened to Natalee Holloway.  Some of this came as they watched a television movie about her disappearance.

Video of John Ludwick
"Yeah it was kinda weird the night we watched the Natalee Holloway movie together.  You know I'm sitting next to on the couch the guy that the movie's about.  And he told me what parts of the movie were true and not and stuff like when they said they were going up to the lighthouse to look for sharks, he said that wasn't true, you can't see sharks from up there."

Joran never revealed the specifics of what happened to Natalee Holloway but he implied that her death was an accident.

Video of John Ludwick
"I don't get the sense of regret you know I never got a sense of there was an intentional causing of anything.  I got more of a sense of you know the situation happened and there was nothing I could do about it."

But in the world of Joran van der Sloot the lines between fact and fiction had become so blurred that it was impossible to tell what was true and what wasn't.

Video of John Ludwick
"But I'd be like Joran you know you said you dumped her in the swamp...there's no way, that swamp is dry and stuff...and he'd laugh.  He knew it was a lie you know and he knew that I knew it was.  And he said I can't change the past, I can't change what happened, I am who I am and I might as well make money off of it."

Joran's next move would be one of his most audacious.  He made contact with Natalee's mom, Beth Holloway.

Video of John Ludwick
"He said he wanted to clear his conscience to Beth and I was kind of aware when he was trying to make contact to come clean as he would say."

Over a series of emails Joran told Beth that because his father had just died he was finally ready to come clean and reveal the location of Natalee's body, but it would come at a price...two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"He's using his father's death to help himself as an explanation for now why he's now gonna tell the truth and why Beth Holloway should now give him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to tell the truth.  He wants to portray himself always as a victim.  What does this have to do with his father's death?  Nothing."


Video of Bryan Burrough
Special Correspondent, Vanity Fair
"I was stunned, both that he would be so stupid and so desperate.  He clearly believed that there was no way that he was going to be brought to justice for what had happened to Natalee.  I mean he'd already told what six, seven, eight...different stories...what's a ninth if I can get some money?" 

The plan was to send Beth's lawyer John Q. Kelley to Aruba to handle the actual transaction with Joran.  Kelley contacted the FBI which assigned a dozen agents to the operation in Aruba.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Van der Sloot knew that Misses Holloway wanted to know really where her daughter's body was to gain some sense of closure, to be able to put this behind her in some way.  Van der Sloot was astute enough to enough to recognize that and he played on her emotion."

Meanwhile the FBI had placed audio bugs and hidden cameras throughout a hotel room in the Marriott and in Kelley's car to record the extortion attempt.  Once in room 443, van der Sloot signed an agreement after which Kelley gave him a twenty five thousand dollar down payment with the remainder of the money to be paid when Natalee's body was recovered.  Then van der Sloot and Kelley got into the rental car and drove to a location near the Aruba Racquet Club.  Van der Sloot pointed to a house and said it was his father who buried Natalee's body under the building.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Joran described himself as a pathological liar.  You can't believe anything he said because somebody like him lies when they don't have to lie, that's what a pathological liar is...they're not necessarily lying only to escape wrongdoing...they lie when they don't have to lie; because they feel a sense of control over other people."

No body was ever found and in an email exchange with Kelley dated May 17th...just a week after the alleged extortion Joran admitted to lying about the location of Natalee Holloway's remains.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"He did it in a sadistic and cruel fashion which I think speaks volumes as to really what's inside of van der Sloot, which is nothing human; it's machine-like."

After getting his money Joran collected his things and got ready to leave Aruba.

Video of John Ludwick
"Joran told me he was going to Peru, just to get away from his mom and all the stress.  He told me he was just going to get an apartment and live down there for a year until he went back to Thailand."

Tipped off that he might be trying to leave the Country, Aruban investigators consulted with FBI officials who in a fateful decision decided not to arrest Joran for extortion while he was still in Aruba.

Peter Blanken
Chief Public Prosecutor, Aruba
"The FBI was not ready with their arrest warrant.  And they approved...the American authorities approved that he was going to go to another country...go to Colombia and to Peru and that when they were ready with their proceedings, he could be arrested in another country."

Van der Sloot left Aruba and by May 14th, he had checked into Room 309 at the Hotel Tac in Lima, Peru.  A week later van der Sloot met Stephany Flores, and in the early morning of May 30th...five years to the day that Natalee Holloway disappeared...the two were seen playing Poker together at the Atlantic City Casino in Lima.  At about five in the morning surveillance cameras show that they return to Joran's room at the Hotel Tac.  Less than four hours later, Joran left the room alone and fled Peru. 

Stephany Flores was never seen alive again.

[Buckeye]

TM

Thank you so much.  I was not able to see the show.

[texasmom]

About sixteen hundred miles from Aruba in Peru another family grieved for a lost daughter.  The battered body of 21 year old Stephany Flores was found in a Lima hotel room on June 2nd 2010.  The room was in the name of Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba five years earlier.

Video of Stephany Flores' father, Ricardo Flores on TV holding a picture of Joran; the translated text says:
This is a photo of the murderer of my daughter.

The Lima police moved quickly on the Flores case.  They issued an International Alert for van der Sloot, he didn't remain a fugitive for long.  Arrested in Santiago Chile on June 3rd, the day after Flores' body was found; van der Sloot was extradited back to Lima to face first degree murder and robbery charges.  His arrival in the Peruvian capital sparked a media frenzy and a much closer look at the young man who seemed to bask in his ability to dodge justice for so long.  But in Lima, unlike Aruba, there was a body, one that suffered severe trauma and signs of asphyxiation.  Criminologist, Lawrence Kobilinsky says all the evidence suggests that Stephany Flores was the victim of a rage killer.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"Well the crime scene indicates that there was a struggle...a strong struggle.  She had a skull fracture, bruises all over her body, some defensive wounds on her body.  There was blood around the scene, (at?) the mattress, on clothing.  She defended herself and it just got out of hand back and forth; and the over reaction that we see is just typical of a sociopath."

On June 7th while in custody van der Sloot confessed to Peruvian police that he had killed Stephany Flores and linked his actions to Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Van der Sloot said in Peru that Stephany recognized through an Internet conversation or email that it was van der Sloot who was involved with Natalee Holloway and that set van der Sloot off.  That's ridiculous."

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"He's probably all over the Internet.  If Stephany found out that he was the one implicated in the Natalee Holloway case, why would that trigger such an interaction between the two?  It just doesn't make sense."

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"What usually sets people off like this is some sort of sexual insult or some sort of sexual humiliation."

As with the Holloway case, van der Sloot quickly retracted his confession.  He claimed it was forced.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"Remember, he's still a young person with sociopathic tendencies and a mind that say's...I'm smarter than you are...I can trick you...I can outlast you.  And he has."

But there was one crucial difference between the Natalee Holloway and Stephany Flores cases for van der Sloot; a crime scene with a body.  His changing stories counted for little in the face of compelling evidence against him.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"There was no way he could deny his being there.  There was tissue found under her fingernails.  I think it was clear especially from the video surveillance that he was there."

Claudia Cisneros
Peruvian Television Reporter
"You can see in that video when she comes into the casino and she's looking to a table and she finds him and they say Hi and she sits right next to him."

Video surveillance also showed the couple leaving the casino, then security cameras at the Hotel Tac show them entering Joran's room together.

Claudia Cisneros
Peruvian Television Reporter
"There's a lot of evidence that incriminates him, especially all the video that puts him at the crime scene."

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"The fact of the matter is that he was under video surveillance."

Investigators believe van der Sloot tried to use the surveillance cameras to help build an alibi.  They surmise that with Stephany Flores already dead, he left the room knowing he was being filmed, he carried two cups to get coffee but didn't have his room key.  A few minutes later he returned with a hotel employee who let him into the room but didn't enter himself.  Fifteen minutes later at 8:45am van der Sloot left the hotel without checking out and fled to Chile.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"I think perhaps in Joran's mind, by leaving the room and going out to get coffee that that would rule him out as a suspect.  This was a way to cover up what he had done."

But the evidence has not convinced everyone that Joran is a rage killer.

Aline Hibbert
Joran's former girlfriend
"He had no reason to go and hurt someone, he would never do that...he was very caring.  So that's why I strongly believe that he didn't do anything to those people."

Still, in the summer of 2010 van der Sloot sat in Lima's Castro Castro Prison, facing a trial for first degree murder and in Peru police felt they had an ironclad case against van der Sloot.

Peruvian Police Official (?)
(Translations on screen)
The evidence speaks.
The physical and criminological evidence speaks.
So that demonstrates his participation.

The parallels between Natalee Holloway's disappearance and the murder of Stephany Flores serve to strengthen the theory that van der Sloot could be a two time rage killer.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"Looking at the similarities in the Natalee Holloway case, you start to draw associations between the two."

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"There certainly is a pattern that van der Sloot met both in casinos, they were gambling together, and he got both gals to leave with him.  But what happened with Stephany is probably in my judgement pretty close to what happened with Natalee."

Faced with a lengthy spell in a Peruvian jail, van der Sloot wanted to return to Aruba.  His means was manipulating the Natalee Holloway case yet again.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"Now I'm going to tell you what really happened to Natalee Holloway, take me back to Aruba.  He is constantly working you...van der sloot...he is never gonna tell what really happened to Natalee and he's never really gonna explain what happened to Stephany.  He just won't do it.  People like this just never tell the truth."

For the Flores family, they have the closure of a final resting place for their daughter, and a strong case against her accused rage killer.  For Natalee Holloway's family, there's empathy for others sharing their ordeal.

Video of Beth Holloway
"Let's all remind ourselves, and keep the Flores family...in our hearts...and in our prayers."

And Joran van der Sloot remains the only link between Natalee Holloway and Stephany Flores.

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"It's a disturbing picture, from being involved in Natalee Holloway's death, to Stephany Flores, to all of the family and friends of the victims...to his own family...it's just nothing but human misery that van der Sloot leaves behind him."

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D.
Criminologist
"I think that when you are a sociopath, it's a characteristic that one develops over time.  I don't think that we can say he is safe for the public.  I don't think we will ever be able to know that for sure."

Louis B. Schlesinger, Ph.D.
Forensic Psychologist
"He's right where he belongs...van der Sloot is right where he belongs."

STATEMENTS DURING THE CREDITS:

Joran van der Sloot is currently in prison in Lima, Peru, awaiting trial for the first-degree murder of Stephany Flores.

In June 2010, Joran van der Sloot was indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of wire fraud and extortion, for soliciting money from Natalee Holloway's mother.

He is presumed innocent on all counts until proven guilty.

No one is currently charged in the disappearance or murder of Natalee Holloway, although the case remains open.


THE END of the show.