Wyks Opinions of Scared Monkeys Forum

[Wyks]

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.  I also apologize for being somewhat O/T at this point, I was typing this while others moved forward to different topics.  


There was a period of time, when folks in this forum and other forums across the net, saw Cindy Anthony as a 'victim', even tho her grand-daughter Caylee is the main victim in that case.  In the beginning of that case, Cindy seemed to be the grief-stricken grandmother.  As a whole nation, our hearts went out to Cindy, George and family, trying to empathize with them, giving them all due respect.  And then... Cindy began to speak in public.  The more she spoke and did in public, the more some folks stopped and said, 'wait a minute, something seems off here.'  

And even while giving all due respect to Cindy for what she was enduring/facing, there were some who began to take a closer look at her, asked questions, tried to get a better picture of who she is.  Doing this didn't negate our heartfelt empathy and respect for Cindy, in being a grief-stricken grandmother.  And at the same time, didn't negate our growing belief that Casey herself had much involvement in Caylee having gone missing.  While folks asked questions, dug a little bit, realized that Cindy/family seemed to be avoiding things publically... when this was brought to the attention of others... we faced a backlash of 'why are you being so mean to these victims?  how can you be so cruel to the grandmother/family of a missing child, victims themselves?'  

What if we had never taken a closer look at Cindy/others?  We would have missed what seemed to have been a hidden agenda.  We would not have seen so early on that there is something very very wrong with the Anthony family.  Something that indeed seems to have much to do with Caylee's disappearance and death.  We have, in that case, a missing child found dead, allegedly at the hands of her mother, and a grandmother who is just as big of a liar as is her daughter.  IMO.  A seemingly grief-stricken grandmother who has her own agenda, who seemingly destroyed evidence, obstructed justice at every turn, and lied under oath.  Again, IMO.  We found out a LOT about Cindy/others, simply by beginning to ask questions, dig a little.  

So now, we are in Kyron's thread, and we have Kaine, who seems to be a grief-stricken father.  As a whole nation, our hearts go out to Kaine, Desiree and family, trying to empathize with them, giving them all due respect. And then... Kaine began to speak in public.  The more he speaks and does in public, the more some folks have stopped and said, 'wait a minute, something seems off here.'  And even while giving all due respect to Kaine for what he is enduring/facing, there are some who have begun to take a closer look at him, asking questions, trying to get a better picture of who he is.  Doing this doesn't negate our heartfelt empathy and respect for Kaine, in being a grief-stricken father.  And at the same time, doesn't negate our growing belief that Terri herself has much involvement in Kyron having gone missing.  While folks are asking questions, digging a little bit, realizing that Kaine/others seem to be avoiding things publically... when we bring this to the attention of others... we are facing a backlash of 'why are you being so mean to these victims?  how can you be so cruel to the father/family of a missing child, victims themselves?'  

What if we never take a closer look at Kaine/others?  We may find something that will deeper our understanding of this case... or we may not.  Only time and actual facts will tell.  True facts, not something hand-fed to the public by LE/media/family, which they apparently want us to believe, while seemingly holding back and/or distracting us from what they apparently don't want us to know or focus on.  And that is after taking into account the obvious need for LE/FBI/media/family to hold certain info close to the vest to protect the integrity of the investigation.  

In Caylee's case, as time went on and we got more factual info, we realized that the case seperated out into two different parts.  The civil case and the criminal case.  And as it turned out, each part has a great deal to do with the other.  In Kyron's case, it also seems to be seperating out into two different parts.  Family issues and the criminal investigation.  I believe that Terri is involved to some degree in Kyron's having gone missing, (the criminal investigation part of this case)... and I think that she probably has a seemingly big share of the blame in regard to the family dynamics (the family issues part of this case).  Does each part have to do with the other?   Only time and more factual info will tell, IMO.  

In the beginning of Caylee's case, we took at face value without question, all that LE/media/family had been hand-feeding the public, by their words and actions/nonactions. Until the time came when we began to have questions, etc.  As many of us stopped taking for granted that every word spoken by LE/media/family/attorneys was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... as we began to ask those hard questions, and were respectfully allowed to so by fellow monkeys,  we began to see the bigger picture, which proved to be nothing even close to what we had been hand-fed.  And IMO, that's all that many of us are trying to do in this case, simply trying 'not' to take at face value without question, all that LE/FBI/media/family is hand-feeding the public, by their words and actions/nonactions.  Many of us have been trying to look at ALL sides, ask questions, keep an open mind to the possibility that we may not be getting the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and would like to be respectfully allowed to so by fellow monkeys.  IMO.

Respectfully, with all due respect, and in IMO... even tho many have expressed what we believe/think about Terri's involvement in both parts of this case.. it seems that it has gotten to the point in here, that no matter how thoughtfully someone has begun to respectfully express their other opinions/views/questions, and include several IMO, JMO.. very often many have been targeted/blamed/shamed/accused as being a 'Kaine/family basher/hater' with nearly each of their posts, likely this one as well.  Even tho we are not being hateful in simply asking questions, and fully realize and agree that Terri has dug herself a deep hole and very likely will be arrested (and should be, IMO) at any given moment. We're just trying to understand the rest of this case.  This is not just happening here at this forum to many monkeys, myself included, it's happening everywhere across the net to those who dare to offer their own opinions/viewpoints with all due respect, ask questions, suggest possibilities which include IMO, JMO etc... There are some who seemingly: attack the poster rather than the post - target/blame/shame/accuse others as being a 'Kaine/family basher/hater' - miss the point - twist words of the poster - vehemently disagree without all due respect and/or even disrespectfully disagree rather than scrolling on by - not tolerating any viewpoint other than their own .  The great majority of the negative posts not addressed by the powers that be (as has typically been done in the past) unless/until the one who is being targeted respectfully replies in their own defense for being able to have their own viewpoints, etc.  I am saddened by it happening here, cuz we really are BETTER than this!!!!!!!!!!!    

At least we used to be.  

All in my opinion.  


I'm moving this post by Wyks out of Kyron Horman's missing person thread because it is inappropriate for discussion in a missing person threads.  It is OT and should be discussed elsewhere.  MuffyBee

[MuffyBee]

I've moved the following previous post by Wyks from Kyron Horman's Missing Person Thread because it is not appropriate discussion for that thread.  

[MuffyBee]

This thread will look like it was started by Wyks, because it is the first post in the thread.  This happens by default.  I actually started this thread to move Wyks post out of Kyron Hormans' thread.  MuffyBee

I am now locking this thread. 

[Wyks]

Wyks - The only time I get upset with what is said is when it's MADE UP or construed to be possible because maybe the poster had a bad experience, as in Blonde's post.  I know Blonde was only stating a possibility but if you are going to do that where do you stop?  Those types of posts end up become fact or rumors that are spread.  

I don't mind facts being posted but not fabrications or dislikes because the way someone looks.  

To the Anthony case.  Even though all of the Anthony's are guilty of lying to protect their daughter Casey, I don't believe that Cindy, George or Lee actually harmed Caylee.   What the Anthony's have done to protect Casey is inexcusable and disrespectful of Caylee, IMO.

WHAT HAS KAINE DONE?  Show me some kind of proof that he is somehow possibly responsible for disappearing Kyron OR BETTER YET, send that information to LE because they haven't gotten the memo.  They seem to be working WITH Kaine, Desiree and Tony.

I've moved Wyks post to another thread.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8290.0

"Wyks opinions of Scared Monkeys Forum"?      Okies... thanks Muffy.  

Moving this OT post to another thread:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8290.0  It's time to get back to discussing Kyron Horman's case.

[MuffyBee]

I've unlocked this thread. Missing child cases are very difficult and emtions can run high.  Kyron's case seems to have so many unanswered questions, rumors and etc.  I hope Kyron can be found soon. 

[Wyks]

IMO and with all due respect Muffy....

I do feel that altho my posts were OT at the moment, it was on topic at the time I was typing it in reply to what others had been discussing in Kyron's thread.  By the time I finished typing it, folks had moved on to other things. 

How different is that than, say, someone typing a post in there in the middle of the night, only to be replied to when other monkeys wake up and begin to catch up on their reading?? 

I believe my post has everything to do Kyron's case, are my opinions/viewpoints, and brought forth a parallel. 

And I believe I was treated unfairly, by this post having been removed.  This is only my opinion, and I respect your opinion as Global Moderater to disagree and do with the posts what you wish. 


 

[MuffyBee]

IMO and with all due respect Muffy....

I do feel that altho my posts were OT at the moment, it was on topic at the time I was typing it in reply to what others had been discussing in Kyron's thread.  By the time I finished typing it, folks had moved on to other things. 

How different is that than, say, someone typing a post in there in the middle of the night, only to be replied to when other monkeys wake up and begin to catch up on their reading?? 

I believe my post has everything to do Kyron's case, are my opinions/viewpoints, and brought forth a parallel. 

And I believe I was treated unfairly, by this post having been removed.  This is only my opinion, and I respect your opinion as Global Moderater to disagree and do with the posts what you wish. 


 

Wyks, I am sorry if you felt you were treated unfairly.  Your post did have some relevant discussion concerning Kyron Horman's case, but it also had  a lengthy discussion that wasn't relevant to the case and didn't belong in a little boy's missing person's thread.  I didn't remove your post.  I moved it out of Kyron Horman's case discussion thread and into the thread I made.  I didn't want to take apart your post and edit it and instead I moved it.   But do you think this part REALLY belongs in Kyron's discussion thread: (From Wyks post)
(snip)
"This is not just happening here at this forum to many monkeys, myself included, it's happening everywhere across the net to those who dare to offer their own opinions/viewpoints with all due respect, ask questions, suggest possibilities which include IMO, JMO etc... There are some who seemingly: attack the poster rather than the post - target/blame/shame/accuse others as being a 'Kaine/family basher/hater' - miss the point - twist words of the poster - vehemently disagree without all due respect and/or even disrespectfully disagree rather than scrolling on by - not tolerating any viewpoint other than their own .  The great majority of the negative posts not addressed by the powers that be (as has typically been done in the past) unless/until the one who is being targeted respectfully replies in their own defense for being able to have their own viewpoints, etc.  I am saddened by it happening here, cuz we really are BETTER than this!!!!!!!!!!!   

At least we used to be. 

All in my opinion.  " (snip)

Wyks, I feel you were using Kyron's thread as a platform for your own opinions about this forum and not so much Kyron's case. You of course are entitled to your opinions and you have the right to express them.  In Kyron's thread, express your opinions there about things pertaining to the case.  You went beyond that and that's why your post was moved.  There had already been other posts that were OT and discussing Scared Monkeys policies and etc. that were not pertinent to Kyron's case and you were part of that discussion.  It was time to get the thread back on topic, which is Kyron Horman.  I really didn't want to see Kyron's thread derailed with discussion about how Scared Monkeys should or shouldn't be or was and isn't.  That would be subject for discussion elsewhere.

[Wyks]

Wyks, I am sorry if you felt you were treated unfairly.  Your post did have some relevant discussion concerning Kyron Horman's case, but it also had  a lengthy discussion that wasn't relevant to the case and didn't belong in a little boy's missing person's thread.  I didn't remove your post.  I moved it out of Kyron Horman's case discussion thread and into the thread I made.  I didn't want to take apart your post and edit it and instead I moved it.   But do you think this part REALLY belongs in Kyron's discussion thread:

(From Wyks post)
(snip)
"This is not just happening here at this forum to many monkeys, myself included, it's happening everywhere across the net to those who dare to offer their own opinions/viewpoints with all due respect, ask questions, suggest possibilities which include IMO, JMO etc... There are some who seemingly: attack the poster rather than the post - target/blame/shame/accuse others as being a 'Kaine/family basher/hater' - miss the point - twist words of the poster - vehemently disagree without all due respect and/or even disrespectfully disagree rather than scrolling on by - not tolerating any viewpoint other than their own .  The great majority of the negative posts not addressed by the powers that be (as has typically been done in the past) unless/until the one who is being targeted respectfully replies in their own defense for being able to have their own viewpoints, etc.  I am saddened by it happening here, cuz we really are BETTER than this!!!!!!!!!!!   

At least we used to be. 

All in my opinion.  "
(end of snip)


Wyks, I feel you were using Kyron's thread as a platform for your own opinions about this forum and not so much Kyron's case. You of course are entitled to your opinions and you have the right to express them.  In Kyron's thread, express your opinions there about things pertaining to the case.  You went beyond that and that's why your post was moved.  There had already been other posts that were OT and discussing Scared Monkeys policies and etc. that were not pertinent to Kyron's case and you were part of that discussion.  It was time to get the thread back on topic, which is Kyron Horman.  I really didn't want to see Kyron's thread derailed with discussion about how Scared Monkeys should or shouldn't be or was and isn't.  That would be subject for discussion elsewhere.

<bolded above by me>

Thank you Muffy, and yes, I truly do believe that part does belong in Kyron's discussion thread.  However, I respect your opinion as the Global Moderator to with it as you see fit. 

That is the thread I've been in, taken part of the discussion in, been treated in the above manner in, as well as seeing other monkeys with differing viewpoints being treated.  It happened in that thread, regarding the subject/contents and manner of being treated in that thread.  I fully believe that part of my post has every revelance as to what is happening in there.  As must several others because they have voiced their opinions to such treatment as well. 

The reasons I feel as tho I have been being treated unfairly, is because:
(1) my post was "moved" out of that thread, while no one else's post has ever been, who have shared similiar thoughts on the same things, within Kyron's thread.   
(2) my post only had to do with Kyron's thread and the treatment therein of myself and fellow monkeys in that thread..... and nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of the Scared Monkeys forum in general, and I resent the implication (by the name of this particular thread) that my opinions are something other than they are. 

Regarding my post....... IMO, and with all due respect, a simple 'ok, let's move on' would have sufficed, just as has happened in the past. 

I have no need to discuss this to death, and am planning to move on after this.
I do want to thank you for this opportunity to have been able to discuss it.  I stand by what I have said, and understand and respect your need to stand by what you have said and done. 

[MuffyBee]

Wyks, I don't want to talk this to death either.  I have enjoyed many of your posts and you've often contributed to discussions and posted information.  I still stand by my actions as a moderator and I thank you for explaining your position on your post.    I hope we really can just move on after this.  I believe you really do care about finding Kyron.  I'd like to post this great picture of Kyron, in which Brandi has done her magic, and I really do hope Kyron can be home soon.  MuffyBee (You do such beautiful work, Brandi.  Thank you)

[pdh3]

I'm beginning to see why Tricia had to get so strict on WS....

It's one thing to have an opinion. It's quite another when egos get involved, and posters overstep their boundaries.
If other forums are not allowing Kaine and Desiree to be bashed and their reputations ruined, then that really says volumes. Maybe some posters need to re-evaluate their motives for trying to hurt suffering parents who have been cleared by LE.

I'm glad to see Scared Monkeys has retained it's integrity. We have superior Mods, and klaas is beyond fair in her decisions.

I'm done too Muffy. I'm not feeding the beast any further.

[melisb]

I'm beginning to see why Tricia had to get so strict on WS....

It's one thing to have an opinion. It's quite another when egos get involved, and posters overstep their boundaries.
If other forums are not allowing Kaine and Desiree to be bashed and their reputations ruined, then that really says volumes. Maybe some posters need to re-evaluate their motives for trying to hurt suffering parents who have been cleared by LE.

I'm glad to see Scared Monkeys has retained it's integrity. We have superior Mods, and klaas is beyond fair in her decisions.

I'm done too Muffy. I'm not feeding the beast any further.

I may be wrong so forgive me ahead of time please...I understand where Wyks is coming from.  We all thought Cindy A was just a grieving Gmom and we started questioning her and a few folks not so politely said "how can you bash a Gmom who is loving their only missing Gdaughter".  What if we had all drank the A's KoolAid?  I think some are beginning to feel like they can't question ALL involved.  KH probably didn't do anything what so ever to Kyron but we can question things can't we w/o feeling like we might get kicked off?  I know I for one cherish SM and BOC...I've only read one or two other places in 2 years (yeah, I only got a computer 2 yrs ago, don't laugh)and would be so devastated if I were to lose priviledges here.  I don't agree with name calling, bullying or down right calling someone a liar but I like to see things challenged even obvious things that shouldn't be challenged.  We just want to be able to pick apart anyone involved in cases like these as long as they don't harm anyone and it's all our opinion.  Some smart poster will talk us down from the ledge and show us we are being crazy.  But allow us to explore the unpopular w/o being scared.  I'm gonna shrink back into my corner so ya'll can't find me and kick me out! lol lol Jus' jokin'!

[Wyks]

I may be wrong so forgive me ahead of time please...I understand where Wyks is coming from.  We all thought Cindy A was just a grieving Gmom and we started questioning her and a few folks not so politely said "how can you bash a Gmom who is loving their only missing Gdaughter".  What if we had all drank the A's KoolAid?  I think some are beginning to feel like they can't question ALL involved.  KH probably didn't do anything what so ever to Kyron but we can question things can't we w/o feeling like we might get kicked off?  I know I for one cherish SM and BOC...I've only read one or two other places in 2 years (yeah, I only got a computer 2 yrs ago, don't laugh)and would be so devastated if I were to lose priviledges here.  I don't agree with name calling, bullying or down right calling someone a liar but I like to see things challenged even obvious things that shouldn't be challenged.  We just want to be able to pick apart anyone involved in cases like these as long as they don't harm anyone and it's all our opinion.  Some smart poster will talk us down from the ledge and show us we are being crazy.  But allow us to explore the unpopular w/o being scared.  I'm gonna shrink back into my corner so ya'll can't find me and kick me out! lol lol Jus' jokin'!

Thank you, melisb.  I agree with what you've posted.  And I hope that you will continue to post what you think/believe.  No monkey ought to feel shamed or blamed for respectfully posting our opinions. 

You made a good point about not drinking the A's kool-aid.  Yikes!  Sure seems that we watched some people work/side with, get close to the A's, even some hired by them, drinking their kool-aid, only to casually tossed under the bus by them.  Sure am hoping that there's no kool-aid to be had in Kyron's case.

[Wyks]

pdh3,

Thank you for proving my point on how some are allowed to continue to shame and blame other posters, simply for having a different opinion, other than their own.  Perfect example.   

[no rose colored glasses]

Wyks, you know that we have been posting a long time together, I have great respect for you.    I will not say anymore because I'm not here to argue with people, if I want to do that I would just get off the internet and argue here in my home. But, if I have different thoughts than other people, I'm not going to be quiet, and when I do speak and have different opinions, I have always been respectful to people, and I will continue to do so. But I will not change my view points on things because I feel pressured to do so. I don't see this case as being that simple, something is very off, and I will continue to express this until and if the case is solved, respectfully.

[cookie]

Wyks, you know that we have been posting a long time together, I have great respect for you.    I will not say anymore because I'm not here to argue with people, if I want to do that I would just get off the internet and argue here in my home. But, if I have different thoughts than other people, I'm not going to be quiet, and when I do speak and have different opinions, I have always been respectful to people, and I will continue to do so. But I will not change my view points on things because I feel pressured to do so. I don't see this case as being that simple, something is very off, and I will continue to express this until and if the case is solved, respectfully.

ditto...

[cookie]

also, Peace to all monkeys, admin and mods on SM! everyone here does a fine job!  this is the best forum to post on and to get news of cases going on...jmo.... 

[Wyks]

Wyks, you know that we have been posting a long time together, I have great respect for you.    I will not say anymore because I'm not here to argue with people, if I want to do that I would just get off the internet and argue here in my home. But, if I have different thoughts than other people, I'm not going to be quiet, and when I do speak and have different opinions, I have always been respectful to people, and I will continue to do so. But I will not change my view points on things because I feel pressured to do so. I don't see this case as being that simple, something is very off, and I will continue to express this until and if the case is solved, respectfully.

Awwww thanks, Rosie.     Yes, we have been posting together a long time!  lol  And it's true, if it's an argument I wanted, wouldn't need to come onto the internet to find one.     The last thing I want to do is to argue with fellow monkeys.  SM, to me, is like the 'last frontier' of peace, a haven in the midst of madness, 'out there', both online and offline.  That's the way I see the Scared Monkeys forum.  Despite what this thread 'appears' to be about. 

In all our posting together Rosie, I have always found you to be respectful and fair toward fellow monkeys while expressing your opinions.  I greatly admire you for that!  As well as for stepping up and saying how you feel about things, even if those thoughts and opinions are different than what some others may have.  Doing so shows more timid monkeys that it's ok to have differing viewpoints. 

And Lord knows in some cases many of us have changed our viewpoints simply because kind and persistent fellow monkeys have helped us see things more clearly.  There have been some cases, when there has been new facts coming in fast and furious, my viewpoints might change from hour to hour!     What we've experienced in the past is that fellow monkeys are understanding of that, even LOL'ing about it, because they are going thru the same thing. 

And I agree with you, something seems very 'off' in this case.  Can't quite put my finger on it.  And if respecfully digging for the truths and facts in this case, helps bring an understanding to this case, IMO, Kyron deserves that, may need that. 

[Wyks]

Thank you Cookie.      We've been posting together a long time too!  And I've always admired and respected you.

There have even been times in some cases we were sitting on different branches in the cage, lol, and managed to learn from each other, remain friends.   In a forum as large as SM, we aren't all going to agree with each other at the very same time.  I like how you can put forth your viewpoints/opinions in a respectful way, and do it in such a way that doesn't blame or shame any other monkey.  The good majority of monkeys are able to do that, and that's what helps to make SM the best forum on the net!  IMO.

And the other reason that helps make SM the best, hands down, are the mods/admin/owner.  IMO.  I've been at 'the other' two forums, and ran back over here, cuz IMO, there was no comparison.  Pitied those who remained there, in fact.  I surely don't want to see SM slide down to the pits level that the 'other' forums operate from.     And it's a fact, SM is the place to go for the latest news.  Some news anchors would truly have a 'Bombshell tonight!!', if they were to read here first.  LOL 

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you Wyks    You have always been very respectful and you have a lot of knowledge. I don't have a lot of knowledge in the respect of schooling, but I have tons of knowledge about mental health issues, and if need be I will continue to give my info on that. I may not know all the technical terms, nor do I obviously have the capability of diagnosing anyone, but that is one think I never take lightly are people that are suffering from this. And whether or not Terri had postpartum depression after giving birth to Kitty, I don't know, but I know one thing, after suffering so bad from it after my second child was born, I know first hand what it can do to a person, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, I don't wish mental illness on anyone. And I'm not ashamed to let people know the journey that my daughter and I have suffered from it all, people need not be ashamed of it what so ever. 

[cookie]

right back at cha Wykkers!

and yes, this is by far the very best forum ever...I am glad that our admin, owner and mods put as much time and effort into this place to make it the place that everyone wants to be at!