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Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 - 7/25/10
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Topic: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 - 7/25/10 (Read 259610 times)
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Nut44x4
Maine - USA
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #880 on:
July 25, 2010, 07:46:36 AM »
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Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear -- Rudyard Kipling
One who doesn't trust is never deceived...
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Blonde
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #881 on:
July 25, 2010, 07:52:30 AM »
St. Helens police arrest man accused of trying to kidnap boy
Published: Wednesday, June 09, 2010, 6:52 PM Updated: Wednesday, June 09, 2010, 7:05 PM
Aimee Green, The Oregonian
St. Helens police have arrested a 36-year-old homeless sex offender who they believe tried to abduct a fifth-grade boy Tuesday.
Police chief Steve Salle said his investigators started talking Wednesday to the FBI to determine if this case is connected to the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman from Skyline School last Friday.
"There's nothing that says that it's connected, but there's nothing to say that it isn't," Salle said, adding that attempted child abductions in his city are "not common at all."
The St. Helens boy was walking home from Lewis & Clark Elementary School when a man walking behind him grabbed him. The boy turned around, slapped the man's hands and ran home. While running, he looked back in time to see the man walk down Columbia Boulevard, cross at Seventh Street, and disappear out of sight.
(snip) Edited- Blonde, oregonlive has requested we not post the entire article. MuffyBee
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/st_helens_police_arrest_man_ac.html
-- Aimee Green
«
Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 10:12:04 AM by MuffyBee
»
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klaasend
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #882 on:
July 25, 2010, 08:58:37 AM »
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 03:19:37 AM
Quote from: Brandi on July 25, 2010, 03:10:50 AM
Titch:
I have her living on Bishop Road in Hillsboro in 2005.
I think it is just an old address.
Thanks Brandi. I'm still trying to piece it all together. I missed so much. I can't believe being gone for a lil over 24 hours could render me clueless! Gosh! I haven't even checked Blink's stuff yet... There's so much info on that GLP site, but there's alot of bashing and really bad cussing. Raising 3 boys sometimes makes me think I invented the F word (((hangs her head in shame))) but this site GLP gives free reign to it's posters & there tons of stuff. I like that site, though...can find some pertinent stuff in there when people know they can say whatever they want. I hope that Tom Jones guy joins here. He's right there, in the middle of it all, close enough without actually being directly involved.
Titch
- All the cousins stuff has already been posted here. I don't have a problem with it being reposted but as I told Seahorse the other day, I don't see a reason to drag the entire family history out in this forum. The family with the exception of DeDe's uncooperativeness with LE seem to be on the up and up.
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JessStar
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #883 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:03:35 AM »
Quote from: seahorse on July 25, 2010, 02:13:50 AM
A Hearing? I am not schooled in the judicial system, I had Jury Duty once but the case was dismissed:)
Could Tom be referring to a "Hearing"?
Where is Jess?
Here I am!
I'm not sure what this person is talking about. It could be something related to the divorce proceedings, the TRO, or it very well could be a grand jury proceeding. IIRC, Oregon has a continuous grand jury system, meaning that they convene them on a pretty regular basis. But it certainly would not constitute a trial.
My "guess" is that it has something to do with the domestic case. I have a hard time believing they would convene a grand jury at this point because, since they have not yet found Kyron, they are unable to define the charges against the subject. Is this a kidnapping? A murder? They just don't know yet.
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JessStar
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #884 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:09:44 AM »
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 02:34:27 AM
Quote from: seahorse on July 25, 2010, 02:22:27 AM
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 02:16:58 AM
Quote from: seahorse on July 25, 2010, 02:13:50 AM
A Hearing? I am not schooled in the judicial system, I had Jury Duty once but the case was dismissed:)
Could Tom be referring to a "Hearing"?
Where is Jess?
That's what I'm thinking, too.
::HelloKitty::Titch,
A Hearing is to see
if
the case goes to Trial? Are all Trials preceded by a Hearing? TIA
Hey there seahorse!
I think a hearing determines a trial...but people are mentioning a Grand Jury, so if the GJ is convening then it's to determine if there's evidence enough to take it to trial...so why would Dede jave to go before a judge on Monday (if that's the case)? I
n my opinion, if she really goes before a judge on Monday, then it's to determine if they have enough evidence on her to hold her & charge her with "whatever"...accomplice, or somebody with second hand knowledge after-the-fact but maybe she held it secret so as to protect her friend/expartner.
This person is the real deal. I sure hope I'm not double posting anything...I haven;t gone through all the pages yet...
...but...omg...I'm reading through all of the posts on that site. I'm posting the pertinent ones from JonesR (only the ones with the best info)...I just found this one on page 4 9bbm):
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1141412/pg4
Jonesr
User ID: 1046647
United States
7/23/2010 9:10 PM
The family is in a heated debate, this has blown up all the GLP doom right out of the water, I've woke up quite a few of them.
But we all hope somehow it's all just her trying to help a friend, or something. And the family has been in total agreeance that Dede needs to spill it no matter what happened, this has to stop, here and now.
Her biggest fear in life was to let down her daddy, she is the apple of his eye, and he is right there with her as a daddy should be.
But he is a sherriff, and a very honest man, and if I know Dede she will lie at first because she knows his heart might not take this, the whole family is worried about uncle don.
She is goin before the judge Monday, and she is not talking to anyone now, but I think the truth is about to break wide open on this case, Don will see to it, even if it's his last case.
Well, that isn't the way the system works. That's more like the Spanish Inquisition!
People who are suspected of a crime aren't hauled before a Judge in the US like that. The 5th Amendment bars it.
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4 Donks
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #885 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:11:44 AM »
Jess
I read somewhere that in Oregon if you don't waive your right to a speedy trial, the trial starts in 60 days. If this is the case the prosecution would refrain from charges until they were prepared for immediate trial.I am sure if she is charged at this point her attorney would demand a speedy tral. Am I correct in this assumption?
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JessStar
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #886 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:18:53 AM »
There could be a hundred hearings for a hundred different reasons before a case goes to trial. I remember having a case about 5 years ago where we had a hearing every Friday afternoon for the 2-1/2 years the case was pending!
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JessStar
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #887 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:23:36 AM »
Quote from: 4 Donks on July 25, 2010, 09:11:44 AM
Jess
I read somewhere that in Oregon if you don't waive your right to a speedy trial, the trial starts in 60 days. If this is the case the prosecution would refrain from charges until they were prepared for immediate trial.I am sure if she is charged at this point her attorney would demand a speedy tral. Am I correct in this assumption?
Tough to say, but I doubt it. The trigger date for the "speedy trial" rule is after charges have been levied and pleas have been entered. That hasn't happened here. But in my opinion, in a case like this, there's no way on God's green earth either side can prepare for trial in 60 days. Therefore, it would be malpractice in my view for a defense lawyer to counsel his client to not waive the 60 day rule.
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Blonde
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #888 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:31:46 AM »
Kyron's parents point finger at Terri's friend
KOIN
July 25, 2010
Video
Searchers were out in Northwest Portland Saturday. Kyron Horman's parents have made pleas which involve DeDe Spicher, a freind of Kyron's stepmother. Spicher has not been accused of any crime.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/me...t&navCatId=156
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Blonde
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #889 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:37:29 AM »
Quote from: Blonde on July 25, 2010, 09:31:46 AM
Kyron's parents point finger at Terri's friend
KOIN
July 25, 2010
Video
Searchers were out in Northwest Portland Saturday. Kyron Horman's parents have made pleas which involve DeDe Spicher, a freind of Kyron's stepmother. Spicher has not been accused of any crime.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/me...t&navCatId=156
We as a family cannot understand how anyone can look at Kyron's smiling face, having information and choose not to help bring him home. Please remember what this is about, it's about bringing a wonderful little boy back to his family.
Desiree, Kaine and Tony
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyrons-family-calls-on-friend-of-Terris-to-tell-what-she-knows-99076714.html
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Blonde
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #890 on:
July 25, 2010, 09:55:08 AM »
Quote from: Blonde on July 25, 2010, 09:37:29 AM
Quote from: Blonde on July 25, 2010, 09:31:46 AM
Kyron's parents point finger at Terri's friend
KOIN
July 25, 2010
Video
Searchers were out in Northwest Portland Saturday. Kyron Horman's parents have made pleas which involve DeDe Spicher, a freind of Kyron's stepmother. Spicher has not been accused of any crime.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/me...t&navCatId=156
Kyron's family calls on friend of Terri's to tell what she knows
We as a family cannot understand how anyone can look at Kyron's smiling face, having information and choose not to help bring him home. Please remember what this is about, it's about bringing a wonderful little boy back to his family.
Desiree, Kaine and Tony
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyrons-family-calls-on-friend-of-Terris-to-tell-what-she-knows-99076714.html
Sorry I'm still sleeping
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Titch
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #891 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:11:15 AM »
Quote from: klaasend on July 25, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 03:19:37 AM
Quote from: Brandi on July 25, 2010, 03:10:50 AM
Titch:
I have her living on Bishop Road in Hillsboro in 2005.
I think it is just an old address.
Thanks Brandi. I'm still trying to piece it all together. I missed so much. I can't believe being gone for a lil over 24 hours could render me clueless! Gosh! I haven't even checked Blink's stuff yet... There's so much info on that GLP site, but there's alot of bashing and really bad cussing. Raising 3 boys sometimes makes me think I invented the F word (((hangs her head in shame))) but this site GLP gives free reign to it's posters & there tons of stuff. I like that site, though...can find some pertinent stuff in there when people know they can say whatever they want. I hope that Tom Jones guy joins here. He's right there, in the middle of it all, close enough without actually being directly involved.
Titch
- All the cousins stuff has already been posted here. I don't have a problem with it being reposted but as I told Seahorse the other day, I don't see a reason to drag the entire family history out in this forum. The family with the exception of DeDe's uncooperativeness with LE seem to be on the up and up.
Thank you Klaas...and sorry for the duplicate posting. I agree with you. Seems like Dede isn't cooperating, still, but could that be bc she's a sheriff's daughter & is therefore skeptical of telling everything she knows right away? I mean, sometimes it's best to make an informed decision with how to word certain things before officially stating that info on record. Is it true that she's considered an official accomplice, or is that rumor? (I had to logoff last night bc my lil one woke up sick, had to take care of him) I'm still getting caught up...
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klaasend
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #892 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:13:45 AM »
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 10:11:15 AM
Quote from: klaasend on July 25, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 03:19:37 AM
Quote from: Brandi on July 25, 2010, 03:10:50 AM
Titch:
I have her living on Bishop Road in Hillsboro in 2005.
I think it is just an old address.
Thanks Brandi. I'm still trying to piece it all together. I missed so much. I can't believe being gone for a lil over 24 hours could render me clueless! Gosh! I haven't even checked Blink's stuff yet... There's so much info on that GLP site, but there's alot of bashing and really bad cussing. Raising 3 boys sometimes makes me think I invented the F word (((hangs her head in shame))) but this site GLP gives free reign to it's posters & there tons of stuff. I like that site, though...can find some pertinent stuff in there when people know they can say whatever they want. I hope that Tom Jones guy joins here. He's right there, in the middle of it all, close enough without actually being directly involved.
Titch
- All the cousins stuff has already been posted here. I don't have a problem with it being reposted but as I told Seahorse the other day, I don't see a reason to drag the entire family history out in this forum. The family with the exception of DeDe's uncooperativeness with LE seem to be on the up and up.
Thank you Klaas...and sorry for the duplicate posting. I agree with you. Seems like Dede isn't cooperating, still, but could that be bc she's a sheriff's daughter & is therefore skeptical of telling everything she knows right away? I mean, sometimes it's best to make an informed decision with how to word certain things before officially stating that info on record. Is it true that she's considered an official accomplice, or is that rumor? (I had to logoff last night bc my lil one woke up sick, had to take care of him) I'm still getting caught up...
Titch
- could be. We do know that her dad is with her now so hopefully, he will make sure she does the right thing.
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Titch
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #893 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:18:28 AM »
Quote from: JessStar on July 25, 2010, 09:09:44 AM
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 02:34:27 AM
Quote from: seahorse on July 25, 2010, 02:22:27 AM
Quote from: Titch on July 25, 2010, 02:16:58 AM
Quote from: seahorse on July 25, 2010, 02:13:50 AM
A Hearing? I am not schooled in the judicial system, I had Jury Duty once but the case was dismissed:)
Could Tom be referring to a "Hearing"?
Where is Jess?
That's what I'm thinking, too.
::HelloKitty::Titch,
A Hearing is to see
if
the case goes to Trial? Are all Trials preceded by a Hearing? TIA
Hey there seahorse!
I think a hearing determines a trial...but people are mentioning a Grand Jury, so if the GJ is convening then it's to determine if there's evidence enough to take it to trial...so why would Dede have to go before a judge on Monday (if that's the case)? I
n my opinion, if she really goes before a judge on Monday, then it's to determine if they have enough evidence on her to hold her & charge her with "whatever"...accomplice, or somebody with second hand knowledge after-the-fact but maybe she held it secret so as to protect her friend/expartner.
This person is the real deal. I sure hope I'm not double posting anything...I haven't gone through all the pages yet...
...but...omg...I'm reading through all of the posts on that site. I'm posting the pertinent ones from JonesR (only the ones with the best info)...I just found this one on page 4 9bbm):
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1141412/pg4
Jonesr
User ID: 1046647
United States
7/23/2010 9:10 PM
The family is in a heated debate, this has blown up all the GLP doom right out of the water, I've woke up quite a few of them.
But we all hope somehow it's all just her trying to help a friend, or something. And the family has been in total agreeance that Dede needs to spill it no matter what happened, this has to stop, here and now.
Her biggest fear in life was to let down her daddy, she is the apple of his eye, and he is right there with her as a daddy should be.
But he is a sherriff, and a very honest man, and if I know Dede she will lie at first because she knows his heart might not take this, the whole family is worried about uncle don.
She is goin before the judge Monday, and she is not talking to anyone now, but I think the truth is about to break wide open on this case, Don will see to it, even if it's his last case.
Well, that isn't the way the system works. That's more like the Spanish Inquisition!
People who are suspected of a crime aren't hauled before a Judge in the US like that. The 5th Amendment bars it.
Thanks Jess, maybe I'm wording it wrong... Also, is this the hearing that was set for Monday but has since been rescheduled til Tuesday? Jess, do you know if a person can be held/tried and/or fined/jailed if they are a free citizen, without a record, but held valuable information regarding a child's disappearance? IOW, if Dede knows something about Kyron but does nothing about it, can she be charged as an accomplice? I mean, how would the prosecution even be able to prove it? Wouldn;t it be a he said she said kind of thing? Unless they were dumb enough to text that info to each other. Do we really know that Dede is an accomplice? I've missed so much!
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klaasend
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #894 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:19:31 AM »
This is the link to the Kyron Horman Discussion Forum that was created from the Kyron Horman Open Discussion on Facebook. They had a hard time controlling it on Facebook so they opened the forum.
http://khod4kyron.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=kyron&action=display&thread=140&page=2
Anita Kissee (reporter at KATU) was posting on the Facebook site and is now posting in the forum. Here is her comment about Tom Jones the cousin of DeDe that started posting info over at the GLP website. She was asked if he was going to do an interview for her.
Quote
anitakissee
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Location: Portland, OR
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He 90% agreed to an interview, then said he had to check with family and never called back. My calls were then not returned. He was very loyal to his uncle... Saying DD really looks up to him - daddy's girl. Now that he's involved, cousin does not think she will allegedly interfere anymore. Honestly - everything else he said was hearsay and even he was quick to say was conjecture on his part and would not discuss on TV. He's not that close with her.
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klaasend
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #895 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:21:47 AM »
Rumor is that maybe there will be arrests on Monday prior to the pc on Tuesday. Also, DD claims they have confirmed a grand jury has been convening on this case so the JURY that cousin Tom was talking about may have been she is going before the GJ.
«
Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 10:25:03 AM by klaasend
»
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Titch
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #896 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:28:16 AM »
Quote from: klaasend on July 25, 2010, 10:21:47 AM
Rumor is that maybe there will be arrests on Monday prior to the pc on Tuesday. Also, DD claims they have confirmed a grand jury has been convening on this case so the JURY that cousin Tom was talking about may have been she is going before the GJ.
Thank you Klaas.
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JessStar
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #897 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:34:51 AM »
Quote from: klaasend on July 25, 2010, 10:21:47 AM
Rumor is that maybe there will be arrests on Monday prior to the pc on Tuesday. Also, DD claims they have confirmed a grand jury has been convening on this case so the JURY that cousin Tom was talking about may have been she is going before the GJ.
A grand jury at this point makes little sense to me, unless law enforcement solved thus crime. Otherwise I can't imagine what they would be asking the grand jury to do. But I've been surprised and humbled before so we'll see!
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Titch
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #898 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:35:42 AM »
Quote from: klaasend on July 25, 2010, 10:19:31 AM
This is the link to the Kyron Horman Discussion Forum that was created from the Kyron Horman Open Discussion on Facebook. They had a hard time controlling it on Facebook so they opened the forum.
http://khod4kyron.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=kyron&action=display&thread=140&page=2
Anita Kissee (reporter at KATU) was posting on the Facebook site and is now posting in the forum. Here is her comment about Tom Jones the cousin of DeDe that started posting info over at the GLP website. She was asked if he was going to do an interview for her.
Quote
anitakissee
New Member
*
member is offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 38
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 14
He 90% agreed to an interview, then said he had to check with family and never called back. My calls were then not returned. He was very loyal to his uncle... Saying DD really looks up to him - daddy's girl. Now that he's involved, cousin does not think she will allegedly interfere anymore. Honestly - everything else he said was hearsay and even he was quick to say was conjecture on his part and would not discuss on TV. He's not that close with her.
On the GLP site, his sister got on there and said nice things about Dede, alot of nice things. Tom's tone was a little different from Laura's (his sister). It sounded to me like he just needed to vent bc it created havoc in his family...those poor people are still probably scrambling to try to make sense of it all. I thought, while I was reading his posts and seeing Laura's posts, that wow the sheriff uncle is well respected (from what I can see) and since he's knowledgable in so many areas (including diving), he's sure to put a gag on the free speech within the family...if not him, then somebody that can get
through
to them since his daughter is in the middle of it all now. Seems like Dede's dad is on the up & up, in Tom's own words "The Last Boy Scout". Only problem is that
if
he was part of the search & rescue/recovery. If Dede is involved to the highest extent, & if they find evidence related to Kyron's disappearance in an area being searched again (but the evidence was overlooked), then could that be held against Dede's dad if he was part of the group that searched that same area previously? Jess, do you happen to know? I mean, it could have been overlooked innocently imo. This is ONLY hypothetical, but a question I'm sure many are thinking...so might as well get it out & over with...
Edit- add "if" to post, per Titch's request. MuffyBee
«
Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 12:22:34 PM by MuffyBee
»
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Tamikosmom
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 -
«
Reply #899 on:
July 25, 2010, 10:36:01 AM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on July 24, 2010, 07:08:27 PM
When the MFH attempt is considered ... when the sexting is considered and ... when the disappearance of Kaine's son is considered ... I believe that ... for her own reasons ... Terri hated her husband more than she love Kyron. There is not one person ... not even Kaine ... who has implied that Terri was not a devoted mother to Kyron. Think about the countless photos as well as the testimonies of others.
Often you read about a spouse who harms his/her child/children in retaliation when there is a perception that he/she has been betrayed.
In Terri's warped irrational thought process ... I contend that she felt her actions were justified and ... considering there is no remorse ... I contend that she still feels her actions were justified
. IMO
Janet
+++++
Kyron Horman's blended family: Friends describe a close, supportive group
Published: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 5:36 PM
Updated: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:46 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html
Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html
NO REMORSE
Kyron’s Parents Describe Web of Deception from Stepmom (With Audio)
Saturday, July 10th, 2010
Shortly after her son, Kyron Horman, disappeared June 4, most of the missing 7-year-old’s family was in shock. There was one notable exception, Young says — Kyron’s stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman.
“She’s talking about her hair that she just got done, and they put highlights in, it turned out a little too orange,” Young recalled in a tape-recorded interview with WW Thursday evening. “I can’t get up every morning, put on my makeup or function even remotely normally, and she’s talking about going and getting her hair done.”
Terri Horman’s attorney, Stephen Houze, has told reporters neither he nor his client will comment on the case.
Young says she suspected Terri Horman may have been involved in Kyron’s disappearance from the moment the stepmom called her to tell her the boy was missing. And Horman’s behavior after the disappearance heightened those suspicions.
“Every single day, we’d wake up, we’d gather up, and we’d just go and start doing stuff (to help find Kyron). And she was always just kind of behind,” says Kyron’s father Kaine Horman, who also sat for the WW interview. “It wasn’t about, ‘what can we do?’ It’s about, ‘what’s being done to me, or what about me?’ It was just kind of more centered around her.”
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/tag/desiree-young/
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Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 - 7/25/10
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