Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #9 7/23/10 - 7/25/10

[JessStar]

Titch, the easy answer to your question is that citizens are under no obligation to report a crime or to cooperate in the investigation of a crime. So simply knowing something but not telling doesn't make one an accomplice. Now if that person assists in the crime in some way they can become an accomplice. An accomplice before the fact helps plan a crime but not commit the crime. An accomplice in fact helps perpetrate the crime. An accomplice after the fact helps cover up the crime. If guilty all are guilty as if they've committed the underlying crime itself.

Thanks so much Jess. That's what I thought, but didn't know what the actual rules were regarding such an issue. I know if somebody is raped and there are onlookers, those people can be tried also. But I also know of an instance where somebody witnessed a rape & was upset about it so they texted one of their friends that they trusted just to vent. This person said they should contact the authorities no matter what bc it's the right thing to do, yet they themself sat on this information. Well a few weeks later, people's cell records were pulled & the witness' text informing what happened to his friend that he trusted was brought into evidence. The innocent friend that was only there to hear or read the venting of the crime was supoenaed. He was brought under deep scrutiny for not reporting it himself. I don't know what happened from it with regards to the innocent friend, but I do know he had to go to court & be questioned...against his best wishes. I'm just kinda wondering if that could be some how be compared to what DeDe is experiencing right now.

<<SNIPPED>>

VERY different scenario, Titch.  Onlookers to a rape very rarely sit idly by and just watch.  They usually "aid and abet" the crime by cheering, encouraging, restraining, etc.

The scenario you discuss involving the text is also different.  In that case, you're talking about someone being subpoenaed.  If a witness is subpoenaed, he/she must give testimony subject to his/her right against self-incrimination.  A subpoena is an order compelling testimony.  That's way different than the question of whether a citizen is obligated to voluntarily report or talk. 

[Tamikosmom]

It is way too coincidental that Dede up and leaves THE SAME time that Terri is "aimlessly" driving country backroads.  I think we are going to find that Dede is an accomplice.

The following timeline implies that Dede is missing from her lanscaping job at  the approximate time that Terri is at the gym.  I am assuming her presence at the gym can be verified.

I assume IF Dede's sudden absence was "Terri" related ... it would be to assist in covering up whatever bad happened.  Think about it.  As a landscaper ... Dede would possess the tools to make it happen.

As always ... IMO.

Janet

+++++

Sources detail stepmom's timeline on day Ore. boy vanished
Story Published: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:04 AM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:14 AM PDT

PORTLAND, Ore. - According to multiple sources, Terri Moulton Horman claims she left Skyline School at 8:45 in the morning without her stepson Kyron the day he disappeared and that between 8:45 a.m. and 10:10 a.m. she ran errands at local grocery stores and can prove it.

As KATU news first reported, at least two stores, the Albertsons on Hillsdale Highway and the Sunset Fred Meyer, are cooperating with investigators. The Albertsons confirmed it turned over surveillance tape to investigators in the case.

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Kiara around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

Early on investigators made a request of the public for any video they might have of the white truck traveling on specific roads through Northwest Multnomah County and portions of Washington County.

At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

By 1:21, Terri claimed she'd traveled home - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, Kurtis, standing with his.

Sources said she also e-mailed the teacher to find out when she could come pick up the project as she had not taken it home.

Yet according to Kaine Horman, that was the very reason Terri requested to drive the truck that day to Skyline School.

He said in an e-mail to KATU News: "I typically drive the truck and Terri drives the car. She wanted to use the truck to bring Kyron's science fair project home, easier done with the truck than the car."

Two of Terri's friends who've taken polygraph tests and turned over evidence said they are cooperating fully with investigators and have nothing to hide.

DeDe Spicher, another friend of Terri’s, has been accused by Kyron’s biological parents, Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, for not cooperating with police. Spicher refused to answer reporter’s questions Friday.

No one has been named a suspect or person of interest in the case, and police have not made any arrests.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99168554.html

[txlisa]

It is way too coincidental that Dede up and leaves THE SAME time that Terri is "aimlessly" driving country backroads.  I think we are going to find that Dede is an accomplice.

The following timeline implies that Dede is missing from her lanscaping job at  the approximate time that Terri is at the gym.  I am assuming her presence at the gym can be verified.

I assume IF Dede's sudden absence was "Terri" related ... it would be to assist in covering up whatever bad happened.  Think about it.  As a landscaper ... Dede would possess the tools to make it happen.

As always ... IMO.

Janet

+++++

Sources detail stepmom's timeline on day Ore. boy vanished
Story Published: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:04 AM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:14 AM PDT

PORTLAND, Ore. - According to multiple sources, Terri Moulton Horman claims she left Skyline School at 8:45 in the morning without her stepson Kyron the day he disappeared and that between 8:45 a.m. and 10:10 a.m. she ran errands at local grocery stores and can prove it.

As KATU news first reported, at least two stores, the Albertsons on Hillsdale Highway and the Sunset Fred Meyer, are cooperating with investigators. The Albertsons confirmed it turned over surveillance tape to investigators in the case.

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Kiara around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

Early on investigators made a request of the public for any video they might have of the white truck traveling on specific roads through Northwest Multnomah County and portions of Washington County.

At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

By 1:21, Terri claimed she'd traveled home - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, Kurtis, standing with his.

Sources said she also e-mailed the teacher to find out when she could come pick up the project as she had not taken it home.

Yet according to Kaine Horman, that was the very reason Terri requested to drive the truck that day to Skyline School.

He said in an e-mail to KATU News: "I typically drive the truck and Terri drives the car. She wanted to use the truck to bring Kyron's science fair project home, easier done with the truck than the car."

Two of Terri's friends who've taken polygraph tests and turned over evidence said they are cooperating fully with investigators and have nothing to hide.

DeDe Spicher, another friend of Terri’s, has been accused by Kyron’s biological parents, Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, for not cooperating with police. Spicher refused to answer reporter’s questions Friday.

No one has been named a suspect or person of interest in the case, and police have not made any arrests.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99168554.html

And that's what makes me sick.  There is a reason Terri and Dede will not cooperate with LE.

[JessStar]

Keep in mind that, under typical GJ rules, if the prosecutor presents his/her case and fails to obtain an indictment, game over--the prosecution can't present that crime for indictment again without a court order.              Thanks JessStar, I never knew that. You are able to explain things for people like me to understand.

Not only is this the "typical" rule, it's the rule in Oregon:

      132.430 Finding against indictment; indorsement “not a true bill.” (1) When a person has been held to answer a criminal charge and the indictment in relation thereto is not found “a true bill,” it must be indorsed “not a true bill,” which indorsement must be signed by the foreman and filed with the clerk of the court, in whose office it shall remain a public record. In the case of an indictment not found “a true bill” against a person not so held, the same, together with the minutes of the evidence in relation thereto, must be destroyed by the grand jury.

      (2) When an indictment indorsed “not a true bill” has been filed with the clerk of the court, the effect thereof is to dismiss the charge; and the same cannot be again submitted to or inquired of by the grand jury unless the court so orders. [Amended by 1973 c.836 §54]

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't know what DeDe would all do for her friend. She certainly is mean to dogs, her cousin said she doesn't care for kids, but how far would she go for Terri? Different scenarios in my head, different relationships in my head as far as DeDe and Terri goes. I suppose if DeDe loved Terri say as a girlfriend in a relationship, which I would have no idea, maybe she would do whatever to help Terri?

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks JessStar 

[seahorse]

It is way too coincidental that Dede up and leaves THE SAME time that Terri is "aimlessly" driving country backroads.  I think we are going to find that Dede is an accomplice.

A person reported seeing a woman with a white truck back-up and drop something in the water at S.I.  Was there also another "vehicle"? There is something on DD, just can't figure out what. Video?

Was she the clean-up man?

 

[Titch]

Thank you so much JessStar for providing such knowledgable information. It's invaluable! Thank you!

[seahorse]

I just don't know what DeDe would all do for her friend. She certainly is mean to dogs, her cousin said she doesn't care for kids, but how far would she go for Terri? Different scenarios in my head, different relationships in my head as far as DeDe and Terri goes. I suppose if DeDe loved Terri say as a girlfriend in a relationship, which I would have no idea, maybe she would do whatever to help Terri?

  Norose & Monkey's,

My guess is DeDe likes a challenge. Perhaps she is fearless, since Pop has connections. I would not rule out anything with her. IMO

[Kat_Gram]

It's too soon for a GJ for Kyron being missing, but in the MFH, they aren't going to get any more evidence than what they have. I can see them taking the MFH to a GJ.
.....
There was a lawyer in NG last week and he thought that the way the MCSD was acting was unprecedented. They say nothing, yet let Kaine, Desiree and Tony become their defacto spokepersons. I live in Canada and I don't think this could happen here.
Why isn't anyone in Portland who pays the salaries of the MCSD questioning these tactics ?

[txlisa]

If Dede turns out to be an accomplice (and I feel confident she is), I would just like to ask her one thing, "was it worth it?"

[seahorse]

Jess,

Thank-you for coming to the rescue with your knowledge.

Please, could you tell us, why was SM and Mum at her Lawyers office for a reportly "nine hours"?

Where these two "practicing"?  Thank-you.

[Tamikosmom]

It's too soon for a GJ for Kyron being missing, but in the MFH, they aren't going to get any more evidence than what they have. I can see them taking the MFH to a GJ.
.....
There was a lawyer in NG last week and he thought that the way the MCSD was acting was unprecedented. They say nothing, yet let Kaine, Desiree and Tony become their defacto spokepersons. I live in Canada and I don't think this could happen here.
 
Why isn't anyone in Portland who pays the salaries of the MCSD questioning these tactics ?
 

I agree Kat_Gram.

Janet

[JessStar]

Jess,

Thank-you for coming to the rescue with your knowledge.

Please, could you tell us, why was SM and Mum at her Lawyers office for a reportly "nine hours"?

Where these two "practicing"?  Thank-you.

Oh, I have no idea.  I'd just be speculating. 

[JessStar]

You know, another point I should probably make is that my comments were directed at the case involving Kyron.  I would not be surprised to learn that they convened a grand jury to address the alleged murder for hire plot.  In my view, that one is ripe for consideration.  There are only a few witnesses, most of the evidence is oral testimony, and what a great strategy.

[klaasend]

Klaas, could you please help me? I don't want to mislead somebody. I'm not sure if I'm remember reading from a comment section of a news station or what, but I just feel it better if maybe we could change what I posted so somebody doesn;t take my word for it. I stated "Only problem is that he was part of the search & rescue/recovery." but I think I should have stated it like this to be on the safe side "Only problem is if he was part of the search & rescue/recovery." Is there any way you could please change that? Here's the posts...my original and then others that quoted my original:

Reply #898 on: July 25, 2010
Reply #904 on: July 25, 2010
Reply #913 on: July 25, 2010

Thank you Klaas. BTW, I loved the article referencing Scared Monkeys! Seems like a whole paragraph was dedicated to this site!

Sorry just got back from the store.  I will try and fix but may not have time.  It was reported that he is only part time and DID NOT assist in any of the Kyron searches.

I can take a look and fix them, Klaas.  MuffyBee  All done.  MB

[Gypsy DD]

I am just trying to work this puzzle out with DeDe's missing time from work and Terri's driving and exercising.  If Terri did actually show up at the gym , after harming Kyron, maybe she called DeDe to the gym to take her truck and get get rid of his little body.

Or maybe they did this together..or maybe Terri wasn't at the gym or out driving..maybe she murdered Kyron at home and DeDe came to help her get rid of the body and evidence.

Just too many possibilities until we know more facts.  I can't get Desiree's words out of my mind about Terri lying constantly, about anything and everything.  And I thought Kaine said Terri's timeline had errors.  So it is just speculation ..it breaks my heart if DeDe has known about this all along and didn't come forward to LE or Kaine and the family.  Just despicable.

[doubledecker]

Rumor is that maybe there will be arrests on Monday prior to the pc on Tuesday.  Also, DD claims they have confirmed a grand jury has been convening on this case so the JURY that cousin Tom was talking about may have been she is going before the GJ.

A grand jury at this point makes little sense to me, unless law enforcement solved thus crime. Otherwise I can't imagine what they would be asking the grand jury to do. But I've been surprised and humbled before so we'll see!

Thank-you JessStar, so the chances of this going on, grand jury, would make little sense at this point in time. I always appreciate your law information 

I should say, though, my opinion is based on the limited information that has been made known to the public.  Law enforcement may very well have sufficient information to convict SOMEONE of a crime.  At that point, they would present the evidence to a GJ to obtain an indictment.  We'll see.  But right now, based on what has been released to the public, we don't even know whether a crime has been committed, let alone what that crime might be.  It could range anywhere from misdemeanor child endangerment to murder. 

Keep in mind that, under typical GJ rules, if the prosecutor presents his/her case and fails to obtain an indictment, game over--the prosecution can't present that crime for indictment again without a court order.  That's why cases are never presented until the investigation is complete, and that's why I'm leaning in the other direction right now.  If the prosecutor were to seek a murder indictment against someone in this case, without having a body, fail to secure an indictment, and then a body is found, a murderer may have been given the proverbial "Get out of Jail Free" card.

The hearing that people are talking about may be a hearing on the contempt motion that was filed against TH for disclosing the motion for the TRO that KH filed in violation of the court's non-disclosure order.

Hi Jess, I know if anyone knows how the law USUALLY works it is you and I have come to you a few times to get your legal opinion as confirmation of what I am thinking, so I do respect your knowledge of the law... however, in this specific case there is a grand jury... you have also stated that you are basing your decision about this on what info you have (info that is public and out there), however, I am in contact with someone who knows there is a grand jury convened and they have subpeoned people to go before the grand jury in this case... at least one of the people searched on last Monday was also served with a subpeona to appear for the grand jury that Thursday, which they did.  so when dede's cousin states dede has to appear before a "jury"(I am sure he means grand jury), then I do believe him because this is the exact pattern of the other person.. get warrants, search the persons house etc and also subpeoned them to go before the grand jury...

I am the one who started saying their were people getting searched and subpeoned to the grand jury, so that info is from ME... I would not say that unless I was sure of it...

just so you know, where the info is coming from about a grand jury... I was a bit surprised myself they were doing this.....but I really believe it is true.

[klaasend]

http://www.kptv.com/news/24385891/detail.html

Crews Return To School Area In Kyron Case

POSTED: 8:54 am PDT July 25, 2010
UPDATED: 9:02 am PDT July 25, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Search crews returned to a field around Skyline School on Saturday to look for clues in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

A sheriff's office spokeswoman said deputies were following up on tips but did not elaborate. There were about 30 people involved in the search, she said. By about 4:40 p.m., the search was finished and crews cleared the area.

It has been 51 days since Kyron was last seen at his northwest Portland school.

The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office on Friday issued a written response to journalists' questions.

One of the questions was whether investigators are any closer to discovering what happened to Kyron Horman since his disappearance on June 4.

The agency responded that it continues to make significant progress but it refused to provide details.

The statement also said the boy's stepmother - Terri Horman - has sometimes been cooperative with police but other times she has not.

The boy's birth parents have said they believe the stepmother was involved in the boy's disappearance. Police have not named her as a suspect.

Kyron's parents have also said that Terri Horman and her friend, DeDe Spicher, haven't been cooperating with investigators.

[klaasend]

http://www.kgw.com/news/Horman-kyron-missing-gaps-portland-kiara-99181214.html

Sources: Probable cause to arrest Terri Horman

by Colin Miner, KGW staff

kgw.com

Posted on July 25, 2010 at 8:21 AM
Updated today at 8:30 AM


PORTLAND -- As the probe into the disappearance of Kyron Horman enters its eighth week, investigators were focusing their energy on how his step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, spent a few key hours the morning he vanished.

There were gaps in what she had told investigators she did that day, including a key portion of time that she said she took daughter Kiara for a ride, according to reliable sources, including people who have been interviewed by investigators.

The reliable sources, including people who have been interviewed by investigators, told KGW investigators said that there was probable cause to arrest Terri in connection with Kyron's disappearance, and for soliciting someone to kill her husband but the choice has been for the investigation to continue.

Terri told investigators that she drove Kiara around a series of rural roads for an hour, saying she was trying to calm her down because she didn't feel well. Meanwhile, she told some of her friends that Kiara had an earache.
 
Investigators have been comparing where she said she was with what they have been able to establish about her movements that day.

There are some things she did that day that were confirmed.

She went to the gym for about 45 minutes that morning and arrived home about 1 p.m. to post pictures from the science fair on her Facebook page.

Surveillance video from stores she said she was at,along with roads she claims to have traveled were being studied to test the veracity of where she said she was for a portion of the morning.

Meanwhile, these sources say that some of Terri's friends have not only been the subject of searches, they have been interviewed by investigators and, in some cases, took polygraphs.

Terri Horman has not been charged with any crime though law enforcement officials have made it clear she is the focus of the investigation.