Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #12 7/29/10 - 8/02/10

[d in texas]

DATELINE - KAINE HORMAN AND DESIREE YOUNG

Little Boy Lost
Report airs Monday, July 26, 10 p.m./9 C on Dateline NBC
by Kate Snow
NBC News
updated 7/26/2010 6:51:10 PM ET

TRANSCRIPT

Photographs of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman provided by the family

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266

Bless their hearts I think the anonymous donor was Dateline.  And I hope it was, finally something used for good in these kind of cases....

[Titch]

G'nite Monkeys. Tomorrow is a new day, fresh eyes = sharper sight. Rest well everyone. May tomorrow bring new answers...

[Tamikosmom]

Kaine’s Feelings Now About Decision to Marry Terri (Updated With Audio)
9:24 AM July 29th, 2010 by James Pitkin

It’s one of the most sensitive and most personal of all the unanswered questions swirling around the case of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

If the suspicions of Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, are true — he believes Kyron’s stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman, is behind the boy’s disappearance — then how does Kaine Horman feel about the fact that he brought her into the family?

And what does Kyron’s birth mother, Desiree Young, feel now about her ex-husband’s choice, as she works closely with him to learn what’s happened to Kyron?

We asked Kyron’s parents those questions in an interview earlier this week. We’re posting their answers below, or you can hear the audio clip here.

In a related note, both parents told WW they’re seeking counseling to deal with the emotional aftermath of Kyron’s disappearance.

WW: Kaine, people wonder if you feel badly for having brought Terri into the mix in the first place.

Kaine Horman: Every day.

How does that play out in your mind?

Kaine Horman: I feel responsible. I feel guilty. It’s my job to protect him, it’s my job to be there for him. I was there for him and someone got past and got him on my watch. I’m very upset about it, I’m very emotional about it. It’s not right. It shouldn’t have happened. We all trusted her. I feel partly responsible. I in a weird way, I almost wish that her plot that she originally put in place [allegedly, to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine] would have gone through, because he would still be here. So I live with that guilt every day, and you know what, I turn it around, and I [make] it into something positive to go help find him. …  I’m not saying I feel directly responsible for it, but I feel really guilty about it. And I wish there was anything I could do to change places with him in any way, shape or form. My life to get him back, it doesn’t matter. I would do anything, I would give anything, and I always would. Up to this point I have always been there in that capacity. Anything bad that happens to him, I wish I could shoulder it for him, [that] I could take it away from him. I wish it would come to me instead of him. It just didn’t go that way this time, and I really wish it would have.


Desiree, do you have any thoughts about that?

Desiree Young: I think that all of us in this case that’s close to Kyron, all of us feel guilty to a certain degree about what it is that we’re going to feel guilty about. … I’ve been told by my counselor it’s very healthy and normal. It doesn’t feel normal, it doesn’t feel healthy, but you know, I feel guilty I wasn’t here to protect him. And that’s our job is to protect our son, and I feel like I failed in that.

Kaine Horman: I think that, you know, based on our history and everything that we’ve done, we have always done everything that we feel that we can do to do that for him, and limit the impact on the kids and really try hard to do everything we can to do what’s right for them. And up until this point I think we both felt, and I’ll speak for myself, but I think we both thought we were doing a pretty good job of that, and this happens, and I think we’re all – including Tony [Young, Desiree's husband] – I think we’re all just devastated, because we all worked so hard for them. And for us, we all get along, and that comes kind of naturally for us in this progression. But we go out of our way to make sure that they’re safe and taken care of and limit all this stuff. And to have this happen, I mean, we’re all just completely devastated by it.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

[d in texas]

Well, I don't know what to think of this, but I will put it out here for you.  I was in the shower, and I was thinking about Kyron.  Looking at all these photos made me sad.  I said,  "I'm sorry, Kyron.  Poor little guy!"  I got an image of his face, pale and scared.  He was shaking his head and shaking his finger back and forth like no, no, no.  I got words something like, "I didn't take the ring!  I didn't hide the ring!"  I think it was a ring because he touched his finger, and I got an image of a circular object.  Maybe it's nothing...  I don't know.

I hate it when you all do that (not literally), it sends chills down back, and right before bedtime....  I can't imagine having that happen to me seeing things.  I do believe in that so this isn't making fun or anything like that.

[Brandi]

 anitakissee
 
For the SMs: Yes, I know what I post here is public. I stand by my statement as an observation & legitimate question, which no one answered 12 minutes ago via Echofon

SMs: & the comment/question in question was intended for a specific group. If I wanted it posted elsewhere, I would put here, on fb or there     11 minutes ago  via Echofon 

http://twitter.com/anitakissee

 

[tnmomb]

Borderline Personality Disorder Made Me Kill My Child
article at bottom of page.


Please give my post a read if you are still interested in TH pathology diagnose and motive I have been watching your posts about TH’s pathology for a while. I posted something at one point but no response. So I obsessed and researched further, picked 2 psychotherapists brain and would like to share my findings and theory.
I hope you find this interesting and maybe even helpful.

My theory about motive (which several of you have hit on ) will even make more sense if you are familiar with Borderline Personality Disorder or BPD. (links and snippets below)
I believe TH is classic Borderline with Histrionic features. Many of you who have thought/asked if she is a narcissist or sociopath…well…yes and no (IMO)

I checked in with my 2 psychotherapists friends one is a Dr. who specializes in the pathology  of “what makes a serial killer” (she has been the only  person to interview Richard Ramirez “Night Stalker”). When I asked them what their diagnose of TH was they both (separately) said Borderline Personality Disorder
This is the way it was explained to me.
If  Sociopathy had a sister it would be Borderline Personality . Most, not all, Sociopaths are men Borderlines are almost always women. Narcissism is quite pronounced in the borderline personality.

If I go with this diagnose her motive makes more sense to me.

Ok…using most of the alleged facts and accusations ….

Let's say Kaine did have an affair on TH, like he did on Desiree. Both affairs happened right around the pregnancy/ birth with both wives. So he is “allergic” to the moods of women with raging hormones. (if you read what BPD does to loved ones you may get even a clearer/different  picture in TH’s case …no justification here I promise what could have been going on in that home)

Terry realizing that he left Desiree for her would automatically think he would do it again and leave her too for someone new (and better in her mind) ( someone with BPD’s main fear is abandonment real or imagined)

As Kaine stated; they go to counseling. Supposedly get back on track... but here is where TH having BPD comes in a very deceiving way People with BPD are victims. They will act calm and ok while planning revenge on real or imagined wrongs committed on them. They will NOT stop until they get revenge.

At first she goes after Kaine (MFH) then realizes the “real and EVEN “(very important to BPD) way to make him pay is to make him live with the hurt she that has been inflicted on her (classic BPD blaming others). Since in her mind he was going to “abandon her and Kiara” and take Kyron after all she has done for them (BPD victim mentality) then she will do the worst thing she can think of and take (kill in my very sad opinion) Kyron away. (“They often feel victimized and will turn into a vicious persecutor at the drop of the hat)”

Oh and BTW this will take care of her hatred and revenge on Desiree to for making her raise Kyron yet not be the real mother (another BPD trait get identity through the care of others…but look out if you screw with them!)

So far this has been the only thing that makes sense as to why she picked on Kyron when she was supposed to be his mother...this is what Borderlines do some more extreme than others. Please read further.

(See link to informative site, but if you google it tons of sites will come up)
I highly recommend reading this if you want to see how she fits this profile.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/mediakit/definition.shtml

snips from different site links;

"For someone with BPD, the potential loss of a relationship can be like facing the loss of an arm or leg — or even death. When their fears of abandonment seem to be confirmed, they may erupt into a rage, make accusations, sob, seek revenge, mutilate themselves, have an affair, or do any number of destructive things."

“It is very common for those who are non-personality disordered to be very confused by this alternating punishment/revenge/rage/anger/silent treatment and then “okayness” or calmness and relative civility. It leaves loved ones exhausted, feeling lost to themselves often, frustrated, hurt, and in some cases feeling like maybe they are losing their minds. Many wonder if the person in their lives with BPD is actually two or more people because the attitudes and behavior displayed in the all-bad side of the splitting cycle are so mean, cruel, often abusive, and so unlike who they thought their loved one was or who they still hope the loved one really is.”

Individuals with borderline personality can sometimes lapse into psychotic thinking when feeling hurt and rejected enough.
Borderline personality-disordered individuals can lapse into a kind of transient sociopathy.

Article;
Borderline Personality Disorder Made Me Kill My Child
Read more: http://socyberty.com/psychology/borderline-personality-disorder-made-me-kill-my-child/#ixzz0v8th1L9z
I find it hard to believe any mother would stoop to killing their child.  Apparently people diagnosed with borderline personality disorder have violent anger streaks.  They also will plan revenge for a long time with people they are angry with.  A person diagnosed with this disorder may seem normal until they get mad but when they do their anger is out of control.  Today on the news there was a story of a lady that called 911 cool and collect like it was no big deal telling the dispatcher she killed her children.  She then went on to describe where she is located and even urges the operator to get the ambulance there asap.  One of her children she reveals is still alive but bleeding to death.  This women sounds cool and worry free through the entire conversation until the ambulance arrives.  Once the ambulance arrives she asks the operator to tell the workers not to shoot her.   It appears this women was more concerned about what will happen to her then her own two daughters she just stabbed.  It also seemed as if she was trying to get back at her ex husband for divorcing her.  What do you think about stories like this.  Does her borderline  personality disorder diagnosis get her off the hook?  I can’t imagine any mother doing this to their child in there right mind.  On the other hand people do some pretty horrendous things for revenge.  Was this lately simply trying to get back at her husband? Was she upset because her two daughters wanted to stay with her dad?

[d in texas]

TNONMB- wow you did that, very telling. 
I do have a question, the mother they are describing was from Tx. outside of Waco, and the call was beyond chilling.  What about Casey Anthony for example she won't tell what she did, Andrea Yates she did the same as your Tx mom, but the ones that don't Casey- elaborate kidnapping, Susan Smith-blamed it on a man, Diane Downs shot her children-blamed it on a man.  Sadly the list goes on...

What is the difference Personality wise on ones who call and say I just did this, to the ones who lie and act like nothing happened.

[tnmomb]

This is an article on WW...It reflects more the idea I was talking about many posts ago about Kaine. I didn't read him as cold. I read him as reacting with severe guilt (for a million things), afraid, trying to protect/provide and still be a parent to Kiara, deal with the shock of his family being blown apart(no matter what his part may be) keep up with LE and media and basically numb trying to "act" strong for everyone. I think he is reacting like many men are taught to do in crisis, be the strong one don't show your feelings, etc. Which could look cold (as in frozen with fear)

....as you all say when hoping not to get ignored or have nanners thrown at you...JMO

Snip from article:



in a weird way, I almost wish that her plot that she originally put in place [allegedly, to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine] would have gone through, because he would still be here. So I live with that guilt every day, and you know what, I turn it around, and I [make] it into something positive to go help find him. … I’m not saying I feel directly responsible for it, but I feel really guilty about it

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

I agree with you, tnmomb.  I think Kaine is scared to death, and who wouldn't be?  He knows the liklihood that Kyron is never coming home and I guess he wishes he had watched Terri more closely.

I will say this Kaine Horman is not like he seems right now he is guilt ridden, devasted and so much more, after seeing the pictures from the 2009 facbook thank you for whomever shared that.
I feel guilty and sad for him, I don't know what happened to Terri but you can see something those pics were 2009 a year ago.

Thanks for the post d in texas as it reiterated how most feel about Kaine.  Maybe I grew up a 'lil bit reading thru the last pages here and holding a negative thought about him for being so dramatic in what he said.

When I heard it today my first thought was I know you loved her but how could you let this woman take care of your children once she started to change?  And then my thoughts ran to that day, June 4th, and when she exchanged cars with him to accomplish a task and the exhibit was still at school when they went to pick Kyron up at the bus, and how she lagged behind him walking down to the bus stop and was acting oddly at the same time his son vanished ~ his son who she took very little interest in capturing in photos compared to 'their' little one . . .    Why didn't it compute Kaine? 

Maybe it just didn't cross his mind she had taken away his son.  With the timing I still find it odd he didn't know immediately she had to be involved.  The important thing about that point is if he was suspicious and had told everything to LE immediately, maybe they would have been able to put 2 + 2 together right away as everything was fresh then.

None of us are perfect.  And possibly it never entered his mind as to what she could have done.  And maybe he did tell LE right away about what he found odd.  We don't know.  I now see him as a father, vulnerable and thank goodness now coming around to where he is sharing his thoughts about what happened.  We don't have to like him to empathize {Sp} with him and appreciate the anguish he feels every day.  xox

I am glad you have seen this side too. I know so many guys like him(maybe it's an Oregon thing) I hope you read my latest post on Borderline Personality disorder. I spend a lot of time reading your posts with questions about TH and how she could do this or Kaine and how he didn't see it. I think after you read my post (links /articles) some of those questions might seem to make more sense as they did for me.
All of the sudden last night at midnite it hit me...revenge....and then I remembered. BPD's want revenge for things real or imagined,I made a few calls and well....go check it out and let me know what you think.

[pdh3]

And speaking of revenge...maybe I am not the best "master of disguise" but when my ex stated that I had abandoned him and my girls when I was downrange and filed divorce paperwork that I did not even know about...I wanted vengeance when I found out when I got back in country.  The abandonment issue was easy to overturn (cost me money) because I had been sending almost my entire paycheck into his account via direct deposit.  So, that was overturned, but because he stated that I was going to kidnap my girls and take them to a war zone (hahahah...what a joke...would never even be allowed)!  I could not take the girls out of the state he was living in.  Yes...it was pretty sleazy.  I admit, the massive depression and hatred seethed inside of me.  I was depressed and constantly schemed on how to get my babies back.  God, it hurt...it felt like my hands had been cut off.  I could hardly function because of the depression...yet my mind was working overtime.  Thank God for my friends and family.  I actually convinced myself that I could escape with them to a place he would never find us.  Fortunately...logic defied fantasy.  I knew that I could never do to my girls what their father had done to them.  I could never deprive them of their father and his family because I refused to sink to that level.  I stopped arguing with him...period.  I lost in court because the girls had an established life with him and his family for over a year since I had been deployed and it did not matter all the words and threats that he had done and said...it was all hearsay.  My point is...even in depression...massive depression...scheming happens and sometimes it goes to a very dark place.  When some people have their back against the wall, they fight with everything they got...others slink away, lick their wounds and brood...Terri strikes me as someone that knows what she wants...and goes for it...all or nothing attitude.

While I am so very sorry that you had a rough time, Kaine is NOT your ex husband. Kaine has not really been inconsistent in his statements. People are taking things out of context, or simply misunderstanding his meaning.
He has been cleared by LE, and he does not want his vulnerable baby daughter to disappear as Kyron has. Her safety is just as important as Kyron's, and he is taking legal steps to protect her, his financial stability, and his home for his children. He's hoping Kyron can come back to his home, so Kaine is doing what he can to preserve it.There is nothing sinister or wrong with that.
Terri really left him no other option, due to her actions. And I'm sure Kaine is suffering quite a bit himself...far worse than any of us can imagine.

[Scandi]

Hi Tnmomb,  I'm off to give a thorough read to you post.

I have known many people that had this BPD.  When I have shared their company is after they were diagnosed and on meds and could finally talk about it because they were suddenly back in the work a day world of employment.

I don't think I ever knew anyone who was bi-polar and in the throws of the disease unless I just didn't recognize it.  It is a wide spread disorder now that everyone knows what it is.  I'm bad I know, but don't think it is an answer to every problem a person has when there should have been no problem.  It might be seen in many different ways, this person who has a problem controlling their life because their personality is odd and constantly slapping them in the face. 

I could be all wet on my look into this problem of BPD and how it could have been an influence on Kyron's life and ultimately why what happened to him, did.  It is an easy catch-all diagnosis I think for people that have problems dealing with life issues.  Not to minomize it BTW. 

It could be this person we are focused on was downright evil, self consumed above all, working with every thought she had on how to maximize her self image.  If it benefited her she was happy.  When things went awry, watch out.  Diabolical, self-serving, her own interests more important than anything ~ that is what I read she was.  Could that be a signature for someone with BPD?  I doubt it.   The people I knew who had that diagnosis were very open about it, tried their best to succeed, knew if they went off their meds they would have problems and above all didn't hide anything about the disease.

I honestly don't know if Terri matches up to the likes of those I have known who deal with this day to day.  She just doesn't seem to fit the bill IMO.  Maybe she should be so honored.

xox

[Scandi]

And speaking of revenge...maybe I am not the best "master of disguise" but when my ex stated that I had abandoned him and my girls when I was downrange and filed divorce paperwork that I did not even know about...I wanted vengeance when I found out when I got back in country.  The abandonment issue was easy to overturn (cost me money) because I had been sending almost my entire paycheck into his account via direct deposit.  So, that was overturned, but because he stated that I was going to kidnap my girls and take them to a war zone (hahahah...what a joke...would never even be allowed)!  I could not take the girls out of the state he was living in.  Yes...it was pretty sleazy.  I admit, the massive depression and hatred seethed inside of me.  I was depressed and constantly schemed on how to get my babies back.  God, it hurt...it felt like my hands had been cut off.  I could hardly function because of the depression...yet my mind was working overtime.  Thank God for my friends and family.  I actually convinced myself that I could escape with them to a place he would never find us.  Fortunately...logic defied fantasy.  I knew that I could never do to my girls what their father had done to them.  I could never deprive them of their father and his family because I refused to sink to that level.  I stopped arguing with him...period.  I lost in court because the girls had an established life with him and his family for over a year since I had been deployed and it did not matter all the words and threats that he had done and said...it was all hearsay.  My point is...even in depression...massive depression...scheming happens and sometimes it goes to a very dark place.  When some people have their back against the wall, they fight with everything they got...others slink away, lick their wounds and brood...Terri strikes me as someone that knows what she wants...and goes for it...all or nothing attitude.

While I am so very sorry that you had a rough time, Kaine is NOT your ex husband. Kaine has not really been inconsistent in his statements. People are taking things out of context, or simply misunderstanding his meaning.
He has been cleared by LE, and he does not want his vulnerable baby daughter to disappear as Kyron has. Her safety is just as important as Kyron's, and he is taking legal steps to protect her, his financial stability, and his home for his children. He's hoping Kyron can come back to his home, so Kaine is doing what he can to preserve it.There is nothing sinister or wrong with that.
Terri really left him no other option, due to her actions. And I'm sure Kaine is suffering quite a bit himself...far worse than any of us can imagine.

Hi Novella,  I understand what you are saying and appreciate your views.

Personally i don't think he would have ever been invited to be seated with and join the Knights of the Round Table had he lived in that day. 

[d in texas]

And speaking of revenge...maybe I am not the best "master of disguise" but when my ex stated that I had abandoned him and my girls when I was downrange and filed divorce paperwork that I did not even know about...I wanted vengeance when I found out when I got back in country.  The abandonment issue was easy to overturn (cost me money) because I had been sending almost my entire paycheck into his account via direct deposit.  So, that was overturned, but because he stated that I was going to kidnap my girls and take them to a war zone (hahahah...what a joke...would never even be allowed)!  I could not take the girls out of the state he was living in.  Yes...it was pretty sleazy.  I admit, the massive depression and hatred seethed inside of me.  I was depressed and constantly schemed on how to get my babies back.  God, it hurt...it felt like my hands had been cut off.  I could hardly function because of the depression...yet my mind was working overtime.  Thank God for my friends and family.  I actually convinced myself that I could escape with them to a place he would never find us.  Fortunately...logic defied fantasy.  I knew that I could never do to my girls what their father had done to them.  I could never deprive them of their father and his family because I refused to sink to that level.  I stopped arguing with him...period.  I lost in court because the girls had an established life with him and his family for over a year since I had been deployed and it did not matter all the words and threats that he had done and said...it was all hearsay.  My point is...even in depression...massive depression...scheming happens and sometimes it goes to a very dark place.  When some people have their back against the wall, they fight with everything they got...others slink away, lick their wounds and brood...Terri strikes me as someone that knows what she wants...and goes for it...all or nothing attitude.

While I am so very sorry that you had a rough time, Kaine is NOT your ex husband. Kaine has not really been inconsistent in his statements. People are taking things out of context, or simply misunderstanding his meaning.
He has been cleared by LE, and he does not want his vulnerable baby daughter to disappear as Kyron has. Her safety is just as important as Kyron's, and he is taking legal steps to protect her, his financial stability, and his home for his children. He's hoping Kyron can come back to his home, so Kaine is doing what he can to preserve it.There is nothing sinister or wrong with that.
Terri really left him no other option, due to her actions. And I'm sure Kaine is suffering quite a bit himself...far worse than any of us can imagine.

Has LE actually cleared anybody in this case? I wish they would get on with clearing some looking at some in public, worries me they don't really know enough to go forward with anything and that is scary.

[Puzzler]

So, Terri wrote to Cook about the $350,000…probably checking how long it would take for that to get around and out in the public (backfired as that amount was incorrect)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_moulton_horman_wants_cou.html

Terri Moulton Horman wants court to order estranged husband to pay attorney fees
Published: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 5:05 PM
-snip-

Bunch said the $350,000 that Kaine Horman claimed his wife paid to criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze is "grossly inaccurate.''

-snip-

Terri Horman reportedly wrote to Michael Cook, a high school friend of Kaine Horman's who is accused of having an intimate relationship with Terri after her husband left the home June 26, that she paid $350,000 to retain Houze.

-snip-

[pdh3]

This is an article on WW...It reflects more the idea I was talking about many posts ago about Kaine. I didn't read him as cold. I read him as reacting with severe guilt (for a million things), afraid, trying to protect/provide and still be a parent to Kiara, deal with the shock of his family being blown apart(no matter what his part may be) keep up with LE and media and basically numb trying to "act" strong for everyone. I think he is reacting like many men are taught to do in crisis, be the strong one don't show your feelings, etc. Which could look cold (as in frozen with fear)

....as you all say when hoping not to get ignored or have nanners thrown at you...JMO

Snip from article:

in a weird way, I almost wish that her plot that she originally put in place [allegedly, to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine] would have gone through, because he would still be here. So I live with that guilt every day, and you know what, I turn it around, and I [make] it into something positive to go help find him. … I’m not saying I feel directly responsible for it, but I feel really guilty about it

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

I agree with you. And I hate to see him raked over the coals when he's a victim and not a suspect.

[tnmomb]

Hi Tnmomb,  I'm off to give a thorough read to you post.

I have known many people that had this BPD.  When I have shared their company is after they were diagnosed and on meds and could finally talk about it because they were suddenly back in the work a day world of employment.

I don't think I ever knew anyone who was bi-polar and in the throws of the disease unless I just didn't recognize it.  It is a wide spread disorder now that everyone knows what it is.  I'm bad I know, but don't think it is an answer to every problem a person has when there should have been no problem.  It might be seen in many different ways, this person who has a problem controlling their life because their personality is odd and constantly slapping them in the face. 

I could be all wet on my look into this problem of BPD and how it could have been an influence on Kyron's life and ultimately why what happened to him, did.  It is an easy catch-all diagnosis I think for people that have problems dealing with life issues.  Not to minomize it BTW. 

It could be this person we are focused on was downright evil, self consumed above all, working with every thought she had on how to maximize her self image.  If it benefited her she was happy.  When things went awry, watch out.  Diabolical, self-serving, her own interests more important than anything ~ that is what I read she was.  Could that be a signature for someone with BPD?  I doubt it.   The people I knew who had that diagnosis were very open about it, tried their best to succeed, knew if they went off their meds they would have problems and above all didn't hide anything about the disease.

I honestly don't know if Terri matches up to the likes of those I have known who deal with this day to day.  She just doesn't seem to fit the bill IMO.  Maybe she should be so honored.

xox

I hear ya! I really do and I am looking forward to your opinion after you read a bit more. In no way do I think any pathology is an excuse for the damage it causes, we all have a choice to seek help.. and we all have some kind of pathology somewhat driving us.  For myself I decided not to have a child until I worked on some my issues that stemmed from pathology(I always think that's a fancy word for personality). She could have Reactive attachment disorder from lack of bonding....we don't really know. I think what I am saying is there are degree's for sure...mix a little of this and a little of that and Bam!!!!

Also if she wasn't diagnosed as your friends were she is just being "driven" from that pathology. I also know 2 borderlines...one in recovery working on it and one that doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't live with my child with a borderline that has not been treated. For my money TH has almost every severe feature of an untreated Borderline. Most of my info coming from Kaines description,the MFH,
inappropriate sexual behavior,drinking and who knows what else, looking needy at the press conference just on and on ...it fits.
But again this is all my theory about what may have been driving her extreme behavior and how a mother could do something harmful to a child.  Cheers!

[tnmomb]

TNONMB- wow you did that, very telling. 
I do have a question, the mother they are describing was from Tx. outside of Waco, and the call was beyond chilling.  What about Casey Anthony for example she won't tell what she did, Andrea Yates she did the same as your Tx mom, but the ones that don't Casey- elaborate kidnapping, Susan Smith-blamed it on a man, Diane Downs shot her children-blamed it on a man.  Sadly the list goes on...

What is the difference Personality wise on ones who call and say I just did this, to the ones who lie and act like nothing happened.

What a great question! I have some ideas but I am not sure why some BPD would confess and some won't. It may have to do with the "features" and how much they influence. i.e. narcissism. I will keep researching and would like to hear from others...here's the reason I think for Casey....

Casey is a Pathological Liar/Histrionic..possible borderline;possible anti-social but because there is no history of jail etc. that has yet to be determined....
A Pathological liar says whatever he or she wants to say with minimal concern for the truth. After all, it is all about them anyway. Such a person wants only what is best for them with little concern for others, to include, in the extreme, their own children. They lie about the little things, they constantly change their story while appearing to believe every new version they roll out for public consumption. While they may fool you at first, after all, we want to believe in others, once you get to know such a person you learn not to believe anything he or she says. You also learn never to expect this person to "confess;" it's simply not in their emotional vocabulary to do so. Many see a pathological liar as extremely cunning and totally self- centered, exhibiting the traits associated with someone said to have a histrionic personality disorder, one that includes attention seeking and inappropriate seductiveness. A woman challenged with this disorder is dramatic, enthusiastic and very flirtatious, even sexually provocative while constantly needing the attention of others, especially men. Because such a person may need constant stimulation and excitement, they often place themselves in risky situations.

I have noticed when I look deeper into the meanings of these disorders it paints a much bigger picture and tells a a lot. I am convinced TH is a borderline with histrionic features

[tnmomb]

Thanks for the interesting conversation. I am tired. Praying for our boy Kyron. Gonna go hug and kiss mine now. Good night

[pdh3]

Maybe Terri is a narcissistic sociopath with severe PPD?  Is that possible?

I have no idea    But I know one thing, when I was suffering from PPD after the second baby, the doctor didn't tell my husband to watch me, and if I would have gotten wind of that suggestion I would have really been upset. My husband knew enough to back away from the scene when my mood swings were wild and furious  Maybe it is just me, but seriously can any woman on here whether it is from PPD or menstrual issues say they never had mood swings? I suppose some women more than others, but I have never known a woman that didn't, and when I was younger I really had some dandy mood swings.

OMG so did I.
You didn't want to be around me at that time in my life, I was  just looking for a fight.

I was thinking the exact same thing with regard to most women having fluctuating moods and hormones.  He isn't describing anything she did that my husband couldn't say the same about me - sadly. 

I think most women, if they are honest, would have to admit to having mood swings, especially during and after a pregnancy. It would be natural for any man to think that it was all tied in to fluctuating hormone levels and the stress of having a new baby. In fact, haven't women tried to educate men on mood swings and hormones being related to certain events in a woman's life?

[seahorse]

SM is twisted placing her baby in front of a CSI pic with crime tape. It wasn't clever, it was cool, it was stupid. 

[amom2]

Borderline Personality Disorder Made Me Kill My Child
article at bottom of page.


Please give my post a read if you are still interested in TH pathology diagnose and motive I have been watching your posts about TH’s pathology for a while. I posted something at one point but no response. So I obsessed and researched further, picked 2 psychotherapists brain and would like to share my findings and theory.
I hope you find this interesting and maybe even helpful.

>snip

Interesting ... have been thinking Borderline Personality Disorder, and now it makes even more sense.