Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #12 7/29/10 - 8/02/10

[Babybear]

Borderline Personality Disorder Made Me Kill My Child
article at bottom of page.


Please give my post a read if you are still interested in TH pathology diagnose and motive I have been watching your posts about TH’s pathology for a while. I posted something at one point but no response. So I obsessed and researched further, picked 2 psychotherapists brain and would like to share my findings and theory.
I hope you find this interesting and maybe even helpful.

My theory about motive (which several of you have hit on ) will even make more sense if you are familiar with Borderline Personality Disorder or BPD. (links and snippets below)
I believe TH is classic Borderline with Histrionic features. Many of you who have thought/asked if she is a narcissist or sociopath…well…yes and no (IMO)

I checked in with my 2 psychotherapists friends one is a Dr. who specializes in the pathology  of “what makes a serial killer” (she has been the only  person to interview Richard Ramirez “Night Stalker”). When I asked them what their diagnose of TH was they both (separately) said Borderline Personality Disorder
This is the way it was explained to me.
If  Sociopathy had a sister it would be Borderline Personality . Most, not all, Sociopaths are men Borderlines are almost always women. Narcissism is quite pronounced in the borderline personality.

If I go with this diagnose her motive makes more sense to me.

Ok…using most of the alleged facts and accusations ….

Let's say Kaine did have an affair on TH, like he did on Desiree. Both affairs happened right around the pregnancy/ birth with both wives. So he is “allergic” to the moods of women with raging hormones. (if you read what BPD does to loved ones you may get even a clearer/different  picture in TH’s case …no justification here I promise what could have been going on in that home)

Terry realizing that he left Desiree for her would automatically think he would do it again and leave her too for someone new (and better in her mind) ( someone with BPD’s main fear is abandonment real or imagined)

As Kaine stated; they go to counseling. Supposedly get back on track... but here is where TH having BPD comes in a very deceiving way People with BPD are victims. They will act calm and ok while planning revenge on real or imagined wrongs committed on them. They will NOT stop until they get revenge.

At first she goes after Kaine (MFH) then realizes the “real and EVEN “(very important to BPD) way to make him pay is to make him live with the hurt she that has been inflicted on her (classic BPD blaming others). Since in her mind he was going to “abandon her and Kiara” and take Kyron after all she has done for them (BPD victim mentality) then she will do the worst thing she can think of and take (kill in my very sad opinion) Kyron away. (“They often feel victimized and will turn into a vicious persecutor at the drop of the hat)”

Oh and BTW this will take care of her hatred and revenge on Desiree to for making her raise Kyron yet not be the real mother (another BPD trait get identity through the care of others…but look out if you screw with them!)

So far this has been the only thing that makes sense as to why she picked on Kyron when she was supposed to be his mother...this is what Borderlines do some more extreme than others. Please read further.

(See link to informative site, but if you google it tons of sites will come up)
I highly recommend reading this if you want to see how she fits this profile.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/mediakit/definition.shtml

snips from different site links;

"For someone with BPD, the potential loss of a relationship can be like facing the loss of an arm or leg — or even death. When their fears of abandonment seem to be confirmed, they may erupt into a rage, make accusations, sob, seek revenge, mutilate themselves, have an affair, or do any number of destructive things."

“It is very common for those who are non-personality disordered to be very confused by this alternating punishment/revenge/rage/anger/silent treatment and then “okayness” or calmness and relative civility. It leaves loved ones exhausted, feeling lost to themselves often, frustrated, hurt, and in some cases feeling like maybe they are losing their minds. Many wonder if the person in their lives with BPD is actually two or more people because the attitudes and behavior displayed in the all-bad side of the splitting cycle are so mean, cruel, often abusive, and so unlike who they thought their loved one was or who they still hope the loved one really is.”

Individuals with borderline personality can sometimes lapse into psychotic thinking when feeling hurt and rejected enough.
Borderline personality-disordered individuals can lapse into a kind of transient sociopathy.

Article;
Borderline Personality Disorder Made Me Kill My Child
Read more: http://socyberty.com/psychology/borderline-personality-disorder-made-me-kill-my-child/#ixzz0v8th1L9z
I find it hard to believe any mother would stoop to killing their child.  Apparently people diagnosed with borderline personality disorder have violent anger streaks.  They also will plan revenge for a long time with people they are angry with.  A person diagnosed with this disorder may seem normal until they get mad but when they do their anger is out of control.  Today on the news there was a story of a lady that called 911 cool and collect like it was no big deal telling the dispatcher she killed her children.  She then went on to describe where she is located and even urges the operator to get the ambulance there asap.  One of her children she reveals is still alive but bleeding to death.  This women sounds cool and worry free through the entire conversation until the ambulance arrives.  Once the ambulance arrives she asks the operator to tell the workers not to shoot her.   It appears this women was more concerned about what will happen to her then her own two daughters she just stabbed.  It also seemed as if she was trying to get back at her ex husband for divorcing her.  What do you think about stories like this.  Does her borderline  personality disorder diagnosis get her off the hook?  I can’t imagine any mother doing this to their child in there right mind.  On the other hand people do some pretty horrendous things for revenge.  Was this lately simply trying to get back at her husband? Was she upset because her two daughters wanted to stay with her dad?

tnmomb--Very interesting, but based on a premise which may or may not be true.  Do you have a diagnosis if Kaine did not cheat?

[klaasend]

Is anyone else having trouble getting into the MCSO site for booking info? I tried last night after midnight and it hadn't been updated, then this morning I can't pull up the site at all. I have it bookmarked and am using the same way to open it as I always have and also tried going there using info data from MCSO home page. This is the error:

Server Error in '/PAID' Application.
Configuration Error

Yes, I'm getting the same error this morning but it was working fine last night for me.

The main page works http://www.mcso.us/public/ , it's just the two online information sites that don't. 

Civil Process
http://www.mcso.us/PAID/CivilPapersStatus.aspx

Inmate Data
http://www.mcso.us/PAID/Default.aspx

Thanks, Klaas. I could get the main page, but not the inmate booking data. Is it possible they have taken it offline on purpose? Because they have booked someone they don't want made public yet? I don't know that much about what computer errors mean. I am probably just being paranoid (or too hopeful). LOL

Yeah they could have taken it offline on purpose but honestly, it's probably just a server glitch.

[Titch]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

[AZSunny]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

I am getting a  response that that page can not be found. It directs me to my on facebook page????? 

[txlisa]

Good Morning all... Happy Friday.  There are some great discussions here re: personality and mental illnesses.  The difference with mental illness and personality disorders vary greatly. I was a job coach, trainer in day support program, and group home years ago for people with MR/MH diagnosis.  The folks ranged from schizophrenia to bi-polar. What I realized when working with this population is that regardless of the illness the majority knew right from wrong. Of course they took medications to control the behaviors. The people that had severe mania would have an outburst and hurt someone or tear things apart, and would feel bad the next day. Those that leaned towards sociopathy would manipulate to try and get their way and constantly lie, never feeling bad about their behaviors. They always made excuses or blamed someone else. They felt entitled. I personally,( and I am no expert) feel Terri falls in the category whereas, she does not feel bad and is a manipulator and liar. I feel it took many of us awhile to get here with her, Casey seemed much easier to pinpoint by all of us. Terri has had many more years of mastering her lying and manipulating. People that knew her propbably picked up on things from time to time but excused it. I think Terri's bio parents may have some underlying issues. Who knows? Terri's bio parents may be murderers, I wonder if Terri knows her real parents are and what they are about?I believe ,and this is all just observation and opinion that Terri's adoptive parents are decent people.  When it comes to nurture verses nature, I think this is nature.

Good Morning Monkeys!

Terri was born in Grass Valley, CA right?  I have family there and my Grandfather told me that it was a big hippie drug haven in the 60's and early 70's.  He told me Charles Manson might have lived there for a while, too.  I don't know if that is true, but it was a big hippie/stoner place to live.

[Babybear]

Those pictures are very puzzling.  They certainly look like a happy family.  Thanks for posting them.

I think Kiara is a beautiful child. And she, too, looks so happy in the pics. I don't understand how Terri can just let her go like that with no attempt to even visit with her.  This fact alone indicates to me that there is something dreadfully wrong with Terri.  I personally couldn't bear it.  I would probably die.

I think it's because she needs to answer a few questions.  And she is too much of a freakin' coward to do it!

That's true.  And that's what's dreadfully wrong with her. Under normal circumstances Kyron would be alive and the family as happy as they appear to be in the pics.  But she is a coward.  You are 100% correct.

[Blonde]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

I am getting a  response that that page can not be found. It directs me to my on facebook page????? 

Me too ,I can't find where it say's that anywhere DAM

[Gypsy DD]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

Is it possible for someone to copy that page to here.  I do not have a fb account anylonger..so I can't see it...noe can anyone else with out FB acct.

TYIA

[Titch]

Titch - I understand where you are coming from but I honestly don't care what Anita Kissee tweets.  Anita Kissee has a bit to learn about the internet.  She may or may not be a good reporter but she's naive if she thinks anything on the internet is private.

Now about DeDe, I'm inclined to believe DeDe was suckered into helping her friend.  It's very possible that DeDe has no actual knowledge what Terri did with Kyron.  It sounds like she is cooperating and I feel that her father will make sure of that. 

I agree, Klaas. I also agree with DeDe...just not sure about involvement in concealment or if it was involvement by default (assicental by acquaintance). I'm wondering if all she did was give Terri some kind of advice as far as lawyers go, etc. Getting a supoena for cell records is easy. A child is missing and happens to be step-child to one of her friends. Since she was in contact with Terry on June 4th, I can't see the police not having her records. That's why I wonder about her involvement. If it was deep, then wouldn't Terri have been arrested by now? While every bit of my intellect says Terri did something to Ky, what about if I'm wrong & she didn't? I personally think she's involved to the highest extent & it's why she's not talking bc she knows anything she says can be used against her. The police, as well as others, stated she was cooperating before she obtained counsel. I personally don't think she was cooperating bc the info she gave didn't match up with the info the MCSO had (her path that day, cell pings, then the sexting, etc). It's been said that DeDe stayed with Terri for awhile after Ky's disappearance. Do you have any idea when she went to stay with Terri & when she left? I can't verify the dates. I read a few places she went there on the 28th? I also read that they really weren't as close as Terri suggested but still friends...but that maybe Terri exaggerated the depths of their friendship. Then I've read the rumors surrounding them, not quite sure what to think about that...it just doesn't jive with what I have.

Something to look at, though... One of those albums that I posted shows James working on landscaping at Lincoln HS. He was putting mulch on a plot (tree plot). I wonder if they all used the same landscaping people (contractors). I think I read that the Portland Public School System used the same landscaper or contractor for all of their school..or that they "shared" a landscaper. If that's the case, then this landscaper referenced was known for a very long time...if that's how Terri met him. Also, in that album, there are more pictures of the Horman's property on Sheltered Nook Rd. They did some major bush puling, according to what Terri wrote. I wonder if they did that themselves or if they hired some help. I'll post them in a sec (the larger pics)...gimme one sec...brb...

[Titch]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

Is it possible for someone to copy that page to here.  I do not have a fb account anylonger..so I can't see it...noe can anyone else with out FB acct.

TYIA

I said wow based on the post from Blonde. I haven't logged into FB or checked the link yet. I'll try it now...

[Babybear]

Good Morning all... Happy Friday.  There are some great discussions here re: personality and mental illnesses.  The difference with mental illness and personality disorders vary greatly. I was a job coach, trainer in day support program, and group home years ago for people with MR/MH diagnosis.  The folks ranged from schizophrenia to bi-polar. What I realized when working with this population is that regardless of the illness the majority knew right from wrong. Of course they took medications to control the behaviors. The people that had severe mania would have an outburst and hurt someone or tear things apart, and would feel bad the next day. Those that leaned towards sociopathy would manipulate to try and get their way and constantly lie, never feeling bad about their behaviors. They always made excuses or blamed someone else. They felt entitled. I personally,( and I am no expert) feel Terri falls in the category whereas, she does not feel bad and is a manipulator and liar. I feel it took many of us awhile to get here with her, Casey seemed much easier to pinpoint by all of us. Terri has had many more years of mastering her lying and manipulating. People that knew her propbably picked up on things from time to time but excused it. I think Terri's bio parents may have some underlying issues. Who knows? Terri's bio parents may be murderers, I wonder if Terri knows her real parents are and what they are about?I believe ,and this is all just observation and opinion that Terri's adoptive parents are decent people.  When it comes to nurture verses nature, I think this is nature.

Good Morning Monkeys!

Terri was born in Grass Valley, CA right?  I have family there and my Grandfather told me that it was a big hippie drug haven in the 60's and early 70's.  He told me Charles Manson might have lived there for a while, too.  I don't know if that is true, but it was a big hippie/stoner place to live.

Good morning Newfie and Tex...

I wonder about her bio parents too. There was a movie some years ago (I know there is a newer one, but I like the old one) "The Bad Seed."  It was of course fiction, but it reminds me so much of Terri.  In synopsis, a child was a thief and a murderer, but could appear perfectly normal and sweet.  Her mother had been adopted.  The mother would occasionally have flashbacks about hiding in a cornfield while a woman with a knife who had killed her entire family was searching for her to kill her too.  The premise was that the murderous gene had skipped a generation and manifested itself in the child, Rhoda.

I know how far-fetched this is and I am not for a moment trying to say this is what's wrong, if anything, with Terri.  It just makes me wonder about her bio parents.  If when she was born, she was born in the midst of druggies and born to one, perhaps it affected her psychological makeup, maybe exposed to drugs before birth. I have no reason to believe this and don't believe it as true.  Just thinking of a possibility. I do wonder about the circumstances of her birth, though, and if there were some kind of problem with her bio parents.

[Blonde]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

I told the poster on this other site that I'm a member of ,that I can't find this post she posted back  this back to me ..

You have to scroll through a lot of comments. It sounds like things are happening there. It could be attention seekers, but they are posting that LE has responded and media may be coming.

[klaasend]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

That facebook link is saying "page not found".  I would really love to see who posted that.

[klaasend]

Blonde - that link is not working, can you post the link again please?

[Blonde]

I found this on a different site
I was reading the comments and came across this: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...0831264?ref=ts

If you go down to the status update about today's presser, in the comments, someone who lives in the area posted about a child she has seen living with a group of homeless people in the Portland area who strongly resembles Kyron. She states she called the tipline but nothing was done and the child is still in the same area with the same people. Read it, it is pretty interesting.

WOW!

I told the poster on this other site that I'm a member of ,that I can't find this post she posted back  this back to me ..

You have to scroll through a lot of comments. It sounds like things are happening there. It could be attention seekers, but they are posting that LE has responded and media may be coming.


If you open up the comments on that status (it is announcing today's presser, was posted last night), the most recent comments appear and they are about what is happening.

[Babybear]

And speaking of revenge...maybe I am not the best "master of disguise" but when my ex stated that I had abandoned him and my girls when I was downrange and filed divorce paperwork that I did not even know about...I wanted vengeance when I found out when I got back in country.  The abandonment issue was easy to overturn (cost me money) because I had been sending almost my entire paycheck into his account via direct deposit.  So, that was overturned, but because he stated that I was going to kidnap my girls and take them to a war zone (hahahah...what a joke...would never even be allowed)!  I could not take the girls out of the state he was living in.  Yes...it was pretty sleazy.  I admit, the massive depression and hatred seethed inside of me.  I was depressed and constantly schemed on how to get my babies back.  God, it hurt...it felt like my hands had been cut off.  I could hardly function because of the depression...yet my mind was working overtime.  Thank God for my friends and family.  I actually convinced myself that I could escape with them to a place he would never find us.  Fortunately...logic defied fantasy.  I knew that I could never do to my girls what their father had done to them.  I could never deprive them of their father and his family because I refused to sink to that level.  I stopped arguing with him...period.  I lost in court because the girls had an established life with him and his family for over a year since I had been deployed and it did not matter all the words and threats that he had done and said...it was all hearsay.  My point is...even in depression...massive depression...scheming happens and sometimes it goes to a very dark place.  When some people have their back against the wall, they fight with everything they got...others slink away, lick their wounds and brood...Terri strikes me as someone that knows what she wants...and goes for it...all or nothing attitude.

While I am so very sorry that you had a rough time, Kaine is NOT your ex husband. Kaine has not really been inconsistent in his statements. People are taking things out of context, or simply misunderstanding his meaning.
He has been cleared by LE, and he does not want his vulnerable baby daughter to disappear as Kyron has. Her safety is just as important as Kyron's, and he is taking legal steps to protect her, his financial stability, and his home for his children. He's hoping Kyron can come back to his home, so Kaine is doing what he can to preserve it.There is nothing sinister or wrong with that.
Terri really left him no other option, due to her actions. And I'm sure Kaine is suffering quite a bit himself...far worse than any of us can imagine.

pd--You said exactly what I have been thinking, but couldn't quite find the appropriate words to do so. 

[klaasend]

Blonde - please repost the link.  The first link you provided doesn't work.

[Blonde]

Blonde - that link is not working, can you post the link again please?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264?ref=ts

You have to scroll through a lot of comments. It sounds like things are happening there. It could be attention seekers, but they are posting that LE has responded and media may be coming.

If you open up the comments on that status (it is announcing today's presser, was posted last night), the most recent comments appear and they are about what is happening.

[klaasend]

Or the link to the "other site" you found it at.

[klaasend]

Blonde - that link is not working, can you post the link again please?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264?ref=ts

You have to scroll through a lot of comments. It sounds like things are happening there. It could be attention seekers, but they are posting that LE has responded and media may be coming.

If you open up the comments on that status (it is announcing today's presser, was posted last night), the most recent comments appear and they are about what is happening.

Thanks Blonde - going through them now but I have to run out for a bit.  I see some psychics are posting but I haven't gotten to the original yet.

I just keep remembering all the Caylee sightings.