Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #12 7/29/10 - 8/02/10

[Claycat]

Titch - I understand where you are coming from but I honestly don't care what Anita Kissee tweets.  Anita Kissee has a bit to learn about the internet.  She may or may not be a good reporter but she's naive if she thinks anything on the internet is private.

Now about DeDe, I'm inclined to believe DeDe was suckered into helping her friend.  It's very possible that DeDe has no actual knowledge what Terri did with Kyron.  It sounds like she is cooperating and I feel that her father will make sure of that. 

That is what I believe has happened to DeDe also, and if it is, I hope she can repair the damage done to her name.

I agree too.

My opinion on DeDe is out until she lets police know where she was on June 4th.  I hope she is not seriously involved.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Babybear]

If I saw a homeless child living in a vacant lot, out in the elements, no shelter, no provision for food, sleep, etc. I wouldn't post it on Facebook or wherever that was, I'd dial 911.  So would anyone else confronted with the same situation.  This is another hoax and whoever would play these games about a missing and likely deceased child is pond scum.

Reminds me of the airport sighting of Caylee.  The nut who reported it said that she asked the little girl her name and she said Caylee Marie Ant'ny. 1.  If a person kidnaps a child, that child will not be paraded out in the open or in a vacant lot.  2.  That child would not be allowed to speak to anyone.

This is so cruel to Kyron's parents but I'm sure they are intelligent enough to know this is a hoax.

[grumpychick]

CSI The Experience, at MGM Grand in the Studio Walk is very well done and Terri and Kaine must have thought it was appropriate to bring the kids, it does recommend ages 12 and up, but that was there decision to make a family day there. It is actually an interesting learning experience.

ITA!
My kids really enjoyed it!

[no rose colored glasses]

CSI The Experience, at MGM Grand in the Studio Walk is very well done and Terri and Kaine must have thought it was appropriate to bring the kids, it does recommend ages 12 and up, but that was there decision to make a family day there. It is actually an interesting learning experience.

ITA!
My kids really enjoyed it!

I'll bet they did 

[mediamama]

CSI The Experience, at MGM Grand in the Studio Walk is very well done and Terri and Kaine must have thought it was appropriate to bring the kids, it does recommend ages 12 and up, but that was there decision to make a family day there. It is actually an interesting learning experience.

ITA!
My kids really enjoyed it!

Ditto. You know, all kids are different. My 8-y-o son LOVES mysteries and thrillers, scary stories, etc, and he is much more curious about the 'how' things work (ie, he would wonder what stops first, a brain or a heart). IOW, he is so analytical that he wouldn't even mull over the emotional elements of death/destruction/mystery that many of us would. He simply enjoys the "inner workings" of events and ideas, and I'm okay with that as long as it's not an obsession. Now, my 7-y-o son, on the other hand...would run out screaming!! LOL

[mediamama]

If I saw a homeless child living in a vacant lot, out in the elements, no shelter, no provision for food, sleep, etc. I wouldn't post it on Facebook or wherever that was, I'd dial 911.  So would anyone else confronted with the same situation.  This is another hoax and whoever would play these games about a missing and likely deceased child is pond scum.

Reminds me of the airport sighting of Caylee.  The nut who reported it said that she asked the little girl her name and she said Caylee Marie Ant'ny. 1.  If a person kidnaps a child, that child will not be paraded out in the open or in a vacant lot.  2.  That child would not be allowed to speak to anyone.

This is so cruel to Kyron's parents but I'm sure they are intelligent enough to know this is a hoax.

I agree. I hope that Tony, being a detective, has cautioned Desiree and Kaine that this type of unfortunate hoax (intentional or not) happens frequently in these cases. 

[Babybear]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

[no rose colored glasses]

CSI The Experience, at MGM Grand in the Studio Walk is very well done and Terri and Kaine must have thought it was appropriate to bring the kids, it does recommend ages 12 and up, but that was there decision to make a family day there. It is actually an interesting learning experience.

ITA!
My kids really enjoyed it!

Ditto. You know, all kids are different. My 8-y-o son LOVES mysteries and thrillers, scary stories, etc, and he is much more curious about the 'how' things work (ie, he would wonder what stops first, a brain or a heart). IOW, he is so analytical that he wouldn't even mull over the emotional elements of death/destruction/mystery that many of us would. He simply enjoys the "inner workings" of events and ideas, and I'm okay with that as long as it's not an obsession. Now, my 7-y-o son, on the other hand...would run out screaming!! LOL

Exactly all kids are different, and with all the pictures being shown, both Kaine and Terri were able to and kind enough to take the kids on vacations, not all families are able to do that.

[nicubird]

Is anyone else having trouble getting into the MCSO site for booking info? I tried last night after midnight and it hadn't been updated, then this morning I can't pull up the site at all. I have it bookmarked and am using the same way to open it as I always have and also tried going there using info data from MCSO home page. This is the error:

Server Error in '/PAID' Application.
Configuration Error

Yes, I'm getting the same error this morning but it was working fine last night for me.

The main page works http://www.mcso.us/public/ , it's just the two online information sites that don't. 

Civil Process
http://www.mcso.us/PAID/CivilPapersStatus.aspx

Inmate Data
http://www.mcso.us/PAID/Default.aspx

The "real time" booking logs aren't available but the "24 hour booking log" is still available for me. You won't be able to see today's bookings, but yesterday's booking log (and all previous days this week) is available as a pdf.

http://www.mcso.us/public/booking_log.htm

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

[seahorse]

SM is twisted placing her baby in front of a CSI pic with crime tape. It wasn't clever, it was cool, it was stupid. 

Good morning, Seahorse.  That was my thought too.  How inappropriate to take those children to some kind of murder exhibit.  They should be interacting with Mickey Mouse, not dead bodies.

  Babybear!

 Yes, I agree children should be intertained by Mickey & Mini and not dead bodies.  Children's minds should be carefree.

 
 

[nicubird]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

ITA no rose. Also, if you look at the some of the other pictures in that album, you will see that the CSI expo was held at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI). The family spent time involved in the other exhibits as well (according to the pictures in the album). It wasn't totally a CSI day. I personally find no issues with the choice of activities in these albums or the pictorial representation. The one thing I noticed that is different in the 2009 albums and the 2010 albums is the way the photos are tagged. In 2009 Kyron's full name was used. In the 2010 albums, the name is truncated. It may have no significance whatsoever, or it may be a sign of distancing; however, I absolutely saw no indication that the past could lead to this present circumstance.

[Babybear]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

All you say is true. they certainly did seem to take their children lots of places and they all seem to be enjoying it. And some children might do well being taken somewhere which is not age appropriate.  However, the last place where Kyron was taken didn't turn out too well.

[newfie]

Good Morning all... Happy Friday.  There are some great discussions here re: personality and mental illnesses.  The difference with mental illness and personality disorders vary greatly. I was a job coach, trainer in day support program, and group home years ago for people with MR/MH diagnosis.  The folks ranged from schizophrenia to bi-polar. What I realized when working with this population is that regardless of the illness the majority knew right from wrong. Of course they took medications to control the behaviors. The people that had severe mania would have an outburst and hurt someone or tear things apart, and would feel bad the next day. Those that leaned towards sociopathy would manipulate to try and get their way and constantly lie, never feeling bad about their behaviors. They always made excuses or blamed someone else. They felt entitled. I personally,( and I am no expert) feel Terri falls in the category whereas, she does not feel bad and is a manipulator and liar. I feel it took many of us awhile to get here with her, Casey seemed much easier to pinpoint by all of us. Terri has had many more years of mastering her lying and manipulating. People that knew her propbably picked up on things from time to time but excused it. I think Terri's bio parents may have some underlying issues. Who knows? Terri's bio parents may be murderers, I wonder if Terri knows her real parents are and what they are about?I believe ,and this is all just observation and opinion that Terri's adoptive parents are decent people.  When it comes to nurture verses nature, I think this is nature.

Good Morning Monkeys!

Terri was born in Grass Valley, CA right?  I have family there and my Grandfather told me that it was a big hippie drug haven in the 60's and early 70's.  He told me Charles Manson might have lived there for a while, too.  I don't know if that is true, but it was a big hippie/stoner place to live.

Good morning Newfie and Tex...

I wonder about her bio parents too. There was a movie some years ago (I know there is a newer one, but I like the old one) "The Bad Seed."  It was of course fiction, but it reminds me so much of Terri.  In synopsis, a child was a thief and a murderer, but could appear perfectly normal and sweet.  Her mother had been adopted.  The mother would occasionally have flashbacks about hiding in a cornfield while a woman with a knife who had killed her entire family was searching for her to kill her too.  The premise was that the murderous gene had skipped a generation and manifested itself in the child, Rhoda.

I know how far-fetched this is and I am not for a moment trying to say this is what's wrong, if anything, with Terri.  It just makes me wonder about her bio parents.  If when she was born, she was born in the midst of druggies and born to one, perhaps it affected her psychological makeup, maybe exposed to drugs before birth. I have no reason to believe this and don't believe it as true.  Just thinking of a possibility. I do wonder about the circumstances of her birth, though, and if there were some kind of problem with her bio parents.

Sorry about the big quote box so I will post below thsi...

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a friend ... Dede assisted Terri on the morning of June 4, 2010 in a cover up AFTER something bad happened to Kyron?  Could the time revealed in text messages and emails explain DeDe's sudden departure from her landscaping job?

Janet

++++++

Terri - Gym

Sources detail stepmom's timeline on day Ore. boy vanished
Story Published: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:04 AM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 24, 2010 at 9:14 AM PDT

At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

By 1:21, Terri claimed she'd traveled home[/color] - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, Kurtis, standing with his.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99168554.html


Terri - Gym

Gaps in how Terri Horman spent June 4
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Updated Monday, Jul 26 at 12:50 PM
 
There are some things she did that day that were confirmed.

She went to the gym for about 45 minutes that morning and arrived home about 1 p.m. to post pictures from the science fair on her Facebook page.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Horman-kyron-missing-gaps-portland-kiara-99181214.html


Where was DeDe?

Investigators put pressure on Terri Moulton Horman's friends, including DeDe Spicher
Published: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 7:50 PM
Updated: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:48 AM

Detectives learned that Spicher, who shares Terri Horman's passion for fitness and gardening, was doing gardening work for a Northwest Portland homeowner on June 4. She abruptly left the house about 11:30 a.m. and didn't return until an hour to 90 minutes later.

Another person working at the home called Spicher to come in for lunch, and the homeowner called Spicher on her cell phone but she wasn't reachable. Detectives have questioned both the homeowner and the other person who was working at the home that day.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html


DeDe - Text Messages and Emails

Attorney: Spicher shared Terri Horman emails, texts with cops
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 12:09 PM
Updated today at 3:04 PM

Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.

"I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case," Stavley said. "I'd be surprised if the indictment didn't come down."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

ITA no rose. Also, if you look at the some of the other pictures in that album, you will see that the CSI expo was held at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI). The family spent time involved in the other exhibits as well (according to the pictures in the album). It wasn't totally a CSI day. I personally find no issues with the choice of activities in these albums or the pictorial representation. The one thing I noticed that is different in the 2009 albums and the 2010 albums is the way the photos are tagged. In 2009 Kyron's full name was used. In the 2010 albums, the name is truncated. It may have no significance whatsoever, or it may be a sign of distancing; however, I absolutely saw no indication that the past could lead to this present circumstance.

When I look at the pictures I see a family that appears to enjoy different outings, and were lucky enough to go on them. The kids all looked well fed and taken care of physically.

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

All you say is true. they certainly did seem to take their children lots of places and they all seem to be enjoying it. And some children might do well being taken somewhere which is not age appropriate.  However, the last place where Kyron was taken didn't turn out too well.

Well no that day at school certainly didn't turn out well at all.

[Babybear]

Yes, it was their decision to take their children to a CSI exhibit.  Actually, that was my point.  I am of the opinion that they, especially Terri, haven't shown a lot of responsibility in choices for Kyron.  After all, he is missing.

Because both parents took the kids on outings, outings that they seemed to enjoy? One can only take so much of Mickey Mouse and the gang. I don't understand what is the difference where they took the kids on vacation, at least they did and spent time with them, a lot of parents don't do this for various reasons.

Yes, many parents can't afford to take their children on expensive vacations.  Terri and Kaine were lucky to have been able to have the wherewithal to do so.  However, I don't think that family time should be spent in activity such as viewing crime scenes.  Just as certain TV shows are not appropriate, neither are some exhibits.  IMO it is Terri who has an inordinate interest in crime and it was at her behest that they even were at that exhibit. 

I suppose this is just another instance where I can't agree with the prevailing opinion.

[newfie]

Does anyone remember reading anything about Terri saying she was adopted and maybe when and some info. on that. I know adoptions are sealed, but maybe she had an open adoption or maybe she did some on line research about her bio parents. Not that I want to drag anyone innocent into this, I am just trying to understand the nature verses nurture dynamics re; Terri. By the way all very intelligent and caring posts by all. I find myself wishing in this case as I did in the others that if we could just get the truth, we will find the child.  Even if it means bringing home a dead child the truth might help us to prevent this from happening again, by examining the suspect and taking note of even the subtlest signs.

[New Monkey]

Yes, many parents can't afford to take their children on expensive vacations.  Terri and Kaine were lucky to have been able to have the wherewithal to do so.  However, I don't think that family time should be spent in activity such as viewing crime scenes.  Just as certain TV shows are not appropriate, neither are some exhibits.  IMO it is Terri who has an inordinate interest in crime and it was at her behest that they even were at that exhibit. 

I suppose this is just another instance where I can't agree with the prevailing opinion.

FWIW, I agree with you.  I have a not very adventuresome child.  She would totally not dig a CSI tour.  It's hard to tell from pictures if Kyron was enjoying himself there.  I haven't seen the CSI exhibit, so can't say for sure if it was too scary. But, in general, I think our children are exposed to too much today.