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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #845 8/29/2010 - 9/12/2010  (Read 74873 times)
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Magnolia
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« Reply #820 on: September 10, 2010, 05:09:28 PM »

I do understand Beth Holloway paying Joran hoping to bring Natalee home.
Joran made up a new story. For me interesting because for the first time he involved Dead Daddy P. very deeply into the committed crime. That's why Anita refuses to visit her eldest son in jail. I do understand that too.
What I was wondering about is the big amount of money, 250.000 dollars in the extortion case.
Enough money to bring again some cadaverdogs to Aruba to search on spots that never have been searched before. Specific spots close to the VDSresidence. As you all know,  for me Jorans appartment is the real crimescene.

Isn't Justice for Natalee the main objective in this unsolved case.
I think that finding her remains will solve almost everything we want since May 2005.
Her remains could be found. No doubt about that.
And if the burial spot of Natalee will be found Joran will also be on trial in the Netherlands or Aruba.

Beth Holloway has the answer I guess.
I think Natalee was already found ---- in the cage. Aruba knows where she is now. -JMO




I agree.
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #821 on: September 10, 2010, 05:45:29 PM »

TONIGHT ON DATELINE:

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/09/07/5064231-van-der-sloot-speaks-out-from-behind-bars

Van Der Sloot speaks out from behind bars


In an American primetime exclusive, the chief suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, Joran Van der Sloot, is speaking out for the first time since his arrest three months ago in Peru for the murder of a young Peruvian woman, Stephany Flores. In the interview, licensed by NBC News, Van der Sloot admits to feelings of guilt, makes some startling admissions and shares some new details about the alleged crimes against him and his relationship with the Holloways.

"Joran Van der Sloot: Behind Bars," reported on by Chris Hansen, will air this Friday, Sept. 10 (10:00-11:00 PM/ET) on "Dateline." For the report, Hansen retraces Van der Sloot's jet-setting odyssey across four continents with exclusive details and photos, and interviews the veteran Dutch crime reporter John van den Heuvel who conducted the interview with him last week at Lima's Miguel Castro-Castro prison. Heuvel will also appear on TODAY, Wednesday, Sept. 8 (7:00 AM/ET).




I think that is going to air an hour earlier tonight, but I get confused about times.

I think it is on from 9-11 PM Eastern time;  and 8-10 PM Central. 

My guide has Dateline from 8-10pm, but the first hour has a description of a different story.  The Joran part looks like it's from 9-10 central time in my area.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #822 on: September 10, 2010, 05:55:24 PM »

I do understand Beth Holloway paying Joran hoping to bring Natalee home.
Joran made up a new story. For me interesting because for the first time he involved Dead Daddy P. very deeply into the committed crime. That's why Anita refuses to visit her eldest son in jail. I do understand that too.
What I was wondering about is the big amount of money, 250.000 dollars in the extortion case.
Enough money to bring again some cadaverdogs to Aruba to search on spots that never have been searched before. Specific spots close to the VDSresidence. As you all know,  for me Jorans appartment is the real crimescene.

Isn't Justice for Natalee the main objective in this unsolved case.
I think that finding her remains will solve almost everything we want since May 2005.
Her remains could be found. No doubt about that.
And if the burial spot of Natalee will be found Joran will also be on trial in the Netherlands or Aruba.

Beth Holloway has the answer I guess.
I think Natalee was already found ---- in the cage. Aruba knows where she is now. -JMO

I agree.

Me too.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #823 on: September 10, 2010, 06:03:45 PM »

I do understand Beth Holloway paying Joran hoping to bring Natalee home.
Joran made up a new story. For me interesting because for the first time he involved Dead Daddy P. very deeply into the committed crime. That's why Anita refuses to visit her eldest son in jail. I do understand that too.
What I was wondering about is the big amount of money, 250.000 dollars in the extortion case.
Enough money to bring again some cadaverdogs to Aruba to search on spots that never have been searched before. Specific spots close to the VDSresidence. As you all know,  for me Jorans appartment is the real crimescene.

Isn't Justice for Natalee the main objective in this unsolved case.
I think that finding her remains will solve almost everything we want since May 2005.
Her remains could be found. No doubt about that.
And if the burial spot of Natalee will be found Joran will also be on trial in the Netherlands or Aruba.

Beth Holloway has the answer I guess.



Somehow I also believe Beth may have the answer.  However ... when I consider her knowledge regarding the Persistence betrayal ... I speculate that Natalee's mother realizes that a burial location does not exist.

Those who monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor deserved so much more.  Those who upheld the search with their heartfelt  prayers deserved so much more.  The family of Natalee Holloway deserved so much more.

John Silvetti, Tim Trahan and Kyle Kingman are the keepers of the truth encompassing the trap located by the Persistence in Aruban waters ... the trap recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005.  Will these three men bow and expose all ... paving a way that could possibly return Natalee to her country ... to her loved ones.

Janet

++++++


Van der Sloot "feels guilty"
Last Update: 9/07 11:11 am
 

It's a familiar refrain, said John Q. Kelly, an attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty.

"He's always a victim. He's always seeking attention. He's always misunderstood and someday he's absolutely going to tell the truth," Kelly said on NBC. "... He's a pathological liar."

He said it was van der Sloot who contacted him about revealing the location of Holloway's body in exchange for payment. "We knew he was going to lie, and was going to make up the basis for wire fraud," Kelly said. "It's attention-seeking behavior, as simple as that," "He wants to be in the spotlight ... he just can't help himself."

http://www.cbs42.com/mostpopular/story/Van-der-Sloot-feels-guilty/MATtB8P_60-1mpA0vwFzrA.cspx
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Edward
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« Reply #824 on: September 10, 2010, 06:10:51 PM »

I would be surprised if it were the trap. My personal belief is no way.
Marcos has more promise then the trap.
Natalee could be in a gold mine shaft, long time in water as those shafts are full of water or Natalee was placed in the tall growing growth to hold her body still while it disintegrated in the estuary not far from the hotels.

In another Case in Escondido California..
when they caught John Gardner he was placing Chelsey body in such growth along side of water as the mud was soft and the tall growth held the body in limbo and out of sight.

Joran and Natalee would have been VERY close if Deepak dropped them off where he said he did.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #825 on: September 10, 2010, 06:11:51 PM »

A FISH TRAP LOST AT SEA WITH HUMAN REMAINS

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #826 on: September 10, 2010, 06:15:32 PM »

Kyle

Justice for Natalee Holloway and a measure closure for her family dictate that you are not FORCED to sit back and do nothing.

Sincerely, Janet

+++++


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
wreck
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« Reply #827 on: September 10, 2010, 06:16:28 PM »

A FISH TRAP LOST AT SEA WITH HUMAN REMAINS

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.
Thank-you, Tamikosmom -- that concise, single quote speaks volumes.
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« Reply #828 on: September 10, 2010, 06:26:47 PM »

I would be surprised if it were the trap. My personal belief is no way.
Marcos has more promise then the trap.
Natalee could be in a gold mine shaft, long time in water as those shafts are full of water or Natalee was placed in the tall growing growth to hold her body still while it disintegrated in the estuary not far from the hotels.

In another Case in Escondido California..
when they caught John Gardner he was placing Chelsey body in such growth along side of water as the mud was soft and the tall growth held the body in limbo and out of sight.

Joran and Natalee would have been VERY close if Deepak dropped them off where he said he did.


A coincident?  I don't think so.

Janet

++++++

The Detective and The Detective's Brother

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.
 
Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.
 
Kyle Kingman: The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. 
 
Kyle Kingman: Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  If a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #829 on: September 10, 2010, 06:30:46 PM »

A FISH TRAP LOST AT SEA WITH HUMAN REMAINS

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.
Thank-you, Tamikosmom -- that concise, single quote speaks volumes.


I agree.

Janet

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Edward
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« Reply #830 on: September 10, 2010, 06:58:17 PM »

Except that Kyle spent most of his time guessing and theorizing.
His own words prove that to me...
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Magnolia
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« Reply #831 on: September 10, 2010, 07:23:53 PM »

Except that Kyle spent most of his time guessing and theorizing.
His own words prove that to me...



But he was in a better position to guess and theorize than you or me.

He saw the trap and a close up look at what was in it.

Why on earth would he be guessing and theorizing unless he believed what he saw was Natalee?
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Edward
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« Reply #832 on: September 10, 2010, 07:26:59 PM »

I am not sure but not one other person ever mentioned anything and many people were on that boat.
But don't get me wrong just the fact that any mansur was on that boat messes with my head as they have had there nose in this the whole time yet last week they were party down with anita by there sides..
There is no bad blood between the mansur and the vandersloot.

It is the fox in the hen house .. the whole damn time.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #833 on: September 10, 2010, 07:30:41 PM »

I am not sure but not one other person ever mentioned anything and many people were on that boat.
But don't get me wrong just the fact that any mansur was on that boat messes with my head as they have had there nose in this the whole time yet last week they were party down with anita by there sides..
There is no bad blood between the mansur and the vandersloot.

It is the fox in the hen house .. the whole damn time.



Ah, but you are so wrong, Edward.   Tim Miller has mentioned what he saw and has even confirmed that
the Arubans told him that it was Male remains.   Male remains in a skirt????
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #834 on: September 10, 2010, 07:33:58 PM »

I am not sure but not one other person ever mentioned anything and many people were on that boat.
But don't get me wrong just the fact that any mansur was on that boat messes with my head as they have had there nose in this the whole time yet last week they were party down with anita by there sides..
There is no bad blood between the mansur and the vandersloot.

It is the fox in the hen house .. the whole damn time.


It appears that all on board the Persistence honored the confidentiality agreement with John Silvetti.

Janet

+++++++


ldstlou
Re: The Cage Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm


The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote:
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote:
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Edward
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« Reply #835 on: September 10, 2010, 07:36:08 PM »

I know what you mean.. But that fish trap weight is about a ton ... 2000 lbs.
So it would not be Joran dumping it there. It would have had to have been dropped off a very large boat or ship.
In that cage were items that looked like police officers hat.

Time Miller said it looked like a body to him.

It looked like a body to most of us at one point or another. 

In reality it can look like anything..But was it anything ?
Only ALE and everybody on Persistance knows for sure .
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Magnolia
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« Reply #836 on: September 10, 2010, 07:41:27 PM »

I know what you mean.. But that fish trap weight is about a ton ... 2000 lbs.
So it would not be Joran dumping it there. It would have had to have been dropped off a very large boat or ship.
In that cage were items that looked like police officers hat.

Time Miller said it looked like a body to him.

It looked like a body to most of us at one point or another. 

In reality it can look like anything..But was it anything ?
Only ALE and everybody on Persistance knows for sure .



Johan will tell you it is a giant Caribbean Crab.  But Tim said it was human
remains.  Kyle said it was human remains.  The Aruban authorities said it was male human remains.

Go figure!
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« Reply #837 on: September 10, 2010, 07:41:31 PM »

I feel bad that his trust was broken by that group of people at flipthebird to integrity.
Anyways it hurts all of us when trust is broken by insiders that attempt to confide for purpose of investigation.

John gets zero respect from me no matter what ..He was and is only after money. He was paid a ransom to do the search in the first place.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #838 on: September 10, 2010, 07:46:28 PM »

I feel bad that his trust was broken by that group of people at flipthebird to integrity.
Anyways it hurts all of us when trust is broken by insiders that attempt to confide for purpose of investigation.

John gets zero respect from me no matter what ..He was and is only after money. He was paid a ransom to do the search in the first place.


Are you referring to Natalee's Freebirds?  Most unkind of you!
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« Reply #839 on: September 10, 2010, 07:57:30 PM »

I feel bad that his trust was broken by that group of people at flipthebird to integrity.
Anyways it hurts all of us when trust is broken by insiders that attempt to confide for purpose of investigation.

John gets zero respect from me no matter what ..He was and is only after money. He was paid a ransom to do the search in the first place.
NO! The TRUST was broken by Kyle when he LIED about informing Beth and Dave of his findings. At first, Kyle was 100% behind doing the RIGHT thing. He then fell into the deceipt of John Silvetti. The Freebirds honored his TRUST up until Kyle quit doing the honorable, moral thing. I forgive you if you don't know the WHLOE story -- but I think you are WAY of base.

 
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