Natalee Case Discussion #845 8/29/2010 - 9/12/2010

[Keepthefaith]

Although I'd like to see the 2paks deposed,I'm more then happy to watch the CBS/Mcgraw attorneys drag this out for 20 years if the need to.Those attorneys aren't working for free,and someone has to pay them.......Who's got deeper pockets and is willing to go the distance?Me thinks the miscreants will get tired of wasting money at some point.Lawyers are expensive   

[Magnolia]

Wreck can explain this better than I can, but I think that David Koch and whoever else is represnting
the Kalpoes, took the case on the agreement that their payment would be 40%-50% of the payout
from Dr. Phil.  I have always felt that Posner had a hand in the selection of lawyers.

[texasmom]

http://www.24ora.com/corte-mainmenu-29/21443-alex-mathew-i-will-not-be-broken-.html

Alex Mathew: I will not be broken !      

Monday, 30 August 2010 23:24
 
 
E ciudadano Alex Mathew deteni algun siman atras bou sospecho di trafico di ser humano, a saca un declaracion por medio di su abogado mr. Duijneveld, caminda e ta bisa di ta desbarata tur e ponencianan a base di cual, Ministerio Publico a laga detene. E ta haya cu si el a wordo deteni a base di cierto punto, anto ta mas donjo di barnan mester wordo deteni. Y ta señala cu hasta Polis tin bar.

Su declaracion ta bisa lo siguiente:

As the Aruban government and the OM have isolated me completely from society and came up (again) with false accusations against me I want them to know they won’t break me and only make me stronger and Allah will punish them sooner as they think. They accuse me of human trafficking. This is a big joke. Everybody knows that for decades prostitution is going on in San Nicolas. Something I always opposed as this is against human dignity and it’s shameful for my town San Nicolas and disturbs its development. But who cares about San Nicolas.

Although prostitution is against the law there are dozens of bars were this is practiced. Everybody knows that politicians and people working at the prosecutor’s office visit these bar on a regular bases. Some of these bars are even owed by police officers. Please tell me that I am lying and will proof it. Now San Nicolas boy Mathew starts a night club with strippers and specifically forbids prostitution and shows that this is a success, Mathew has to be brought down again.

Let’s compare the girls from the bars with the girls from Foxy lady. The girls from the bars live in little room and have no decent living space. They pay between 100 and 125 florins a day for this and have to take care of everything by their self. The girls from Foxy Lady lived in a spacious house have their own room with air conditioning with a maid that also cooks them one meal a day.

The prosecutor says Mathew hold the girls like prisoners because he takes their passports. This has nothing to do with keeping them prisoner. This is done by most bars in San Nicolas also. Mathew gives every girl a phone for their own safety. A phone with which they can call all over the world. Of course Mathew wants to know where the girls go if they go out he feels responsible for them and doesn’t want anything to happen to them. The girls go by themselves to the beach, to the internet café and go out to south beach, but according to the prosecutor they are Mathew’s prisoners. Mister prosecutor you are the laughing stock of the Aruban people!!! The bars don’t care about the girls having a phone or not, they just have to pay their daily rent and work in the bar as long as it’s open. Mathew is a human trafficker because the girls have sometimes to work long hours. Please check the hours in the other bars in San Nicolas.

The girls from Mathew are mostly European girls that out of their free will choose to dance. The girls in the bars are all Colombian girls that, because of their horrific personal situation at home, have no other way to survive than to do prostitute there selves. Of course who cares, it’s just San Nicolas where it happens and it’s not Mathew who’s involved.

Funny is that this all started with false accusations of a girl that pretended she fled to Curacao the beginning of this year. The truth is she was kicked out after she was being warned not to practice prostitution, but was caught have sex with a client in the private dance room. She begged for another change, but then cocaine was discovered in her room. She was send away as these are the two things and I don’t want to hear about, prostitution and drugs. Of course as it’s about Mathew the government and the prosecutors are all ears and just want to hear what can help set up Mathew.

Although I know my lawyer is fighting hard for me I know it’s hard to fight a conspiracy by people that are powerful and pretend they represent justice. However I will not break and we will see who will be standing tall at the end. Allah Akbar.

 

Alex Mathew

 

[Magnolia]

Who was the politician that Jossy said had a house of prostitution in Venezuela?

Was it Bouchi Wever?

[Keepthefaith]

What a great letter.The police own whore houses!Aruba at it's finest...

[Keepthefaith]

Although prostitution is against the law there are dozens of bars were this is practiced. Everybody knows that politicians and people working at the prosecutor’s office visit these bar on a regular bases. Some of these bars are even owed by police officers. Please tell me that I am lying and will proof it. Now San Nicolas boy Mathew starts a night club with strippers and specifically forbids prostitution and shows that this is a success, Mathew has to be brought down again.


Jacobs eatin cornflakes at the bar comes to mind!

[wreck]

Wreck can explain this better than I can, but I think that David Koch and whoever else is represnting
the Kalpoes, took the case on the agreement that their payment would be 40%-50% of the payout
from Dr. Phil.  I have always felt that Posner had a hand in the selection of lawyers.

I doubt whoever is paying the legal bills for the Kalpoes has any intention of the Kalpoes actually reaping any monetary gain themselves of any large degree.

[Keepthefaith]

 

[texasmom]

Who was the politician that Jossy said had a house of prostitution in Venezuela?

Was it Bouchi Wever?

Candelario "Booshi" Wever

I was thinking it was him too.  Didn't find what I was looking for...I remember us discussing it.  At the link below, there's an article I remember but the house of prostitution is mentioned above it...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2620.msg351932#msg351932

[Magnolia]

Who was the politician that Jossy said had a house of prostitution in Venezuela?

Was it Bouchi Wever?

Candelario "Booshi" Wever

I was thinking it was him too.  Didn't find what I was looking for...I remember us discussing it.  At the link below, there's an article I remember but the house of prostitution is mentioned above it...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2620.msg351932#msg351932

Sorry I can't spell Booshi and it is such a common name.

I remember Jossy doing an editorial on it and then it was hushed up.

[texasmom]

Who was the politician that Jossy said had a house of prostitution in Venezuela?

Was it Bouchi Wever?

Candelario "Booshi" Wever

I was thinking it was him too.  Didn't find what I was looking for...I remember us discussing it.  At the link below, there's an article I remember but the house of prostitution is mentioned above it...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2620.msg351932#msg351932

Sorry I can't spell Booshi and it is such a common name.

I remember Jossy doing an editorial on it and then it was hushed up.

You did fine, it's not a name you see often.

The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear his name is that front page article of him in Parliament trying to discretely "give the finger".   

[texasmom]

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5939&Itemid=26

Papiamentu translation:

 

premier balkenende owing to arrive corsou before visit by farewell y tomorrow will come aruba

monday, 30 august 2010

w’stad/o’stad – first minister by the netherlands, sr. jan-peter balkenende owing to arrive corsou diadomingo afternoon 18:35 on one vuelo by keep costa for by sint maarten. at aeropuerto hato past owing to being ricibi before first minister by antilles dutch, sra. emily de jongh-elhage, agent adhunto by the netherlands at antilles dutch, sra. patricia grolle y comandante suplente by navy regal, sr. jeroen van zaalen. is deal by one visit by farewell y at once also will atende aspectonan cu have by haber cu desmantelacion by antilles. day 9 by september owing to remain by hang on to one conferencia by prensa rondo before atende the proceso estatal. all cos will depende if will succeed form one gobierno new before corsou in the proximo dianan. the mandatario dutch have planning by visit tomorrow we island.

[Tamikosmom]

Deposition

That is what the Kalpoes are so far refusing to come to California (as ordered by the judge) to give to the Defense.

For crying out loud!!  What is the reason behind the judge's decision not to throw out this defamation case out!  For the past four years ... the Kalpoes have "refuse" time and time again to comply with court requests.

Janet

I prefer to believe that the Judge and the CBS/Dr. Phil team are on the side of Natalee more than anything else.  It would be better to get the depositions and case documents CBS/Dr.Phil are requesting/requiring.  I believe that's what they are all holding out for.  That small chance.  For Natalee.

Klaas

It appears that it is not the Dr. Phil team who are prolonging the lawsuit for any lofty motive.  Following a 2008 failure to comply by the Kalpoes' attorneys ... the McGraw attorneys motioned the court to dismiss the case.  The motion was denied.

At that time the judge extended the request to comply deadline by five days.  Five days have come and passed 2 1/2 years ago and ... still the lawsuit has not been dismissed.  The judge has granted repeated extentions since.  Why?

Janet

++++++++

Feb 6, 2008 5:00 am US/Pacific
Former Holloway Suspects Can Sue Dr. Phil

A judge refused to dismiss a defamation suit Tuesday against CBS and television psychologist "Dr. Phil" McGraw brought by two brothers who were questioned in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. ....

In their dismissal motion, attorneys for CBS Television and McGraw maintained lawyers for the Kalpoes did not meet deadlines to produce all documents they have demanded concerning the criminal case investigation against the brothers in Aruba.

But the judge gave the Kalpoes' lawyers another five days to satisfy the document deadline.

"The documents are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case," Ferns stated in his ruling. "There is no other (information) which can substitute for the documents sought by the defendants due to the nature of this case."

In June, another judge dismissed a wrongful death case against the Kalpoes by Holloway's parents, ruling the Los Angeles Superior Court did not have jurisdiction. The parents maintained the brothers conceded jurisdiction when they sued CBS and McGraw in Los Angeles.

http://cbs2.com/entertainment/doctor.phil.mcgraw.2.647163.html

[Tamikosmom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184 - Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow.  "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans.  No one tape.  Nothing," he says sadly.  Despite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation.  Never passed them the ball.  Not even for one minute.

[msmarple]

I think it's time for these again ...

* * *
Memorable Quotes
(Running Llist – Additions WELCOME)

No body, no case
(Paulus van der Sloot, “poolside chat” with J2K, afternoon/evening 05/30/2005)

How did you get here so fast
(Paulus to “the Alabama posse,” early a.m. 05/31 2005)

You do not have jurisdiction
(Paulus to “the Alabama posse,” early a.m. 05/31 2005 - Deepak quoting Paulus, Deepak PV statement, 06/13/2005)

I’ll have to eat my frosted flakes first
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Beth & Jug, 8:00 am or later that a.m., 05/31/2005)

Well how much money you got?
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Dave, 06/01/2005)

Well, just go on down to Carlos 'N Charlie's ... Watch your drink. That's one thing you better do is watch your drink
(Detective Dennis Jacobs, to Dave, 06/01/2005)

I could not find “rush in like cowboys” - msmarple, but I seem to have two “cowboy” quotes --)

We can’t book people when we want… (like) a bunch of cowboys
(Karin Jannsen, Lead prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, 06/03/05)

“updated 6/26/2005 7:49:23 AM ET
“Aruban authorities have defended their handling of the case, saying meticulous police work takes time.
“‘You have to build up an investigation. You can’t just go in there like a cowboy,’ Janssen said last week when asked why investigators waited more than two weeks to search the van der Sloot home.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8362818/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts//

Something bad happened
(Deputy Chief Gerold Dompig to AP, attributing to “one of three young men,” 06/12/2005)

I called Deepak and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her
(Joran PV statement, 06/13/2005)

Joran van der Sloot is a disturbed/sick person, he has admitted that he is in the care of a psychologist and that he hits his brother
(Deepak PV statement, 6/16/2005)

To your question how Natalee was that night in “Carlos & Charlies”, I can say the following. She danced beautifully, I had lied in my previous statement about her being unsteady on her feet when she stepped off the podium/stage. That was beside the truth. She had a steady walk
(Deepak PV statement, 06/22/2005)

Satish, why you guys lie to Mama?
(Nadia Ramirez, 2K’s mother, re. “Holiday Inn story,” to Greta, 06/24/2005)

Your own father, unbelievable
(Deepak to Joran, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)

If they find that girl, then they will see that *hit
(Joran to 2K, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)

They're going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl
(Deepak to Joran, “secret recording” in polis van, 06/25/2005)


I am being repeatedly asked the same questions and I am sick and tired of that.
(Deepak PV statement – 06/30/2005)

This is a question of semantics. It's been a problem since day one
(Ruben Trapenberg, explaining that “formal charges” could be filed “as soon as Monday,” although Karin Janssen had told reporters that J2K had been charged with murder since their arrest, CDNN 07/01/2005)

Come on, we all lie. We all lie. As big people I know that I lie sometimes
(Nadia Ramirez, 2K’s mother, on Dr. Phil show, 09/05/2005)

One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that
(Joran, A Current Affair, 09/26/2005)

… if you keep acting like this, Mr. Twitty, you know, we’re going to quit
(Jug quoting Karin Janssen, to Greta, 09/28/2005)

 I mean it's happened probably 20, 20 times nothing has ever gone wrong
(Joran to Greta, 03/03/2006)

If he gets in trouble later, he gives his concerned mother three thick kisses
(Interview by Floor Ligtvoet, printed in BN DeStem, 03/30/2006)

A delicious adolescent, he is simply a delicious youth!
(sometimes translated/quoted as “boy” and “sporter” instead of “youth”)
(Anita, from the same BN DeStem article, 03/30/2006)

msmarple includes this one because, well, just because:
We have no alien necessary that ounce come say how unsafely our island is. An Aruban who such call things, calls I to a country traitor, lets stand to an alien who gives a bad name to Aruba abroad. That is still more terrible
(Rudy Croes, MEP of Justice, 11/16/2006)

Why does this *hit always happen to me?
(Joran to Patrick, Peter de Vries tape, aired 02/03/2008)

I am a sporter
(Anita, quoting Joran, to Greta, 02/12/2008)

The effort was superb, but the game was fixed
(“private eye,” Natalee’s uncle, re. recovery of the findings of the Persistence ocean search, posted at SM 04/09/2008)

And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.
(Beth to Greta, 11/19/2008)

So much bad luck sometimes
(Joran, text message to Melody Granadillo, est. 06/03/2010 – “the day of his arrest”)

This isn't a coincidence, this murder
(Ricardo Flores, Stephany's father, to reporters in Lima, Peru, 06/04/2010)

I did not want to do it. {The girl saw private things.} She had no right. I approached her and she was scared. We discussed it and she tried to escape, and I took her neck and hit her
In some quotes, the bracketed phrase is stated as The girl intruded into my private life
(Joran’s “confession,” quoted by BNO News and La Republic, 06/07/2005; a confession he unsuccessfully has attempted to retract)

Van der Sloot said he was sick in the head and had not tasted food in two days
(Google translation from Spanish:
“Van der Sloot dijo sentirse mal de la cabeza y que no había probado alimentos en dos días.”
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/494308/vea-primeros-minutos-joran-van-der-sloot-carcel 06/13/2010)

(I included the above because “mal de la cabeza” is not the way one refers to a “headache” in Spanish, and we have the later statement from Anita, below.)

My son is sick in his head
(Anita, interview for De Telegraaf, published 06/20/2010)

* * *
Anyone have more information on the following? --

You just don't understand our legal system
(Arlene Ellis-Schipper – Date?)
I could not find this one. I tried several name spellings. Any ideas?

Girls just get lost sometimes
(Angelina?? I don’t know anything about this one ?? )

That Mother, she just wouldn't go away!
(Joran? Anita? to ? re. Beth, date ? - can anyone find this one ?? I thought it was in the Peter dV tape but couldn’t find it)
 
They didn't behave like a normal family with a missing daughter
(Joran? Anita? date?)

Aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee
(Glenda, aka Julia Renfroe - do we have a date on that?)

[crazybabyborg]

Janet - I have to disagree with you on this.  I don't think they have any intention of settling with the Kalpoes.  I believe they expect the case to be thrown out and so do I. 

I agree with Magnolia - CBS and Dr. Phil have these attorneys on their payroll.  The Kalpoes are a minor irritation to CBS but do allow some hope of getting information regarding the NH case which is their intention IMO.

Klaas

We will have to agree to disagree until the outcome of this lawsuit is revealed.  If I am wrong ...  I will be rejoicing while eating crow pie.

Considering no findings have been released from the FBI investigation of the hard drive ... I suspect that the McGraw recording was manipulated with the expectation there would be no significant backlash from the Kalpoes.  After all ... at the most Deepak and Satish would be ... as you pointed out ... only "minor irritations".

However ... McGraw and his "people" did not anticipate that the ATA/AHATA would enter the scenario and take advantage of the NFI findings by financially backing the Kalpoes in a defamation lawsuit in anticipation of ultimately reaping a windfall ... a windfall that implied the Kalpoes ... the attorneys and ... Aruba would financially benefit.

Could it be that the filing of the defamation lawsuit by the Kalpoes' attorneys implied that McGraw had two choices ... settle or ... challenge the lawsuit by going in another direction.  The defence's strategy?  Case documentation would be requested.  The Kalpoes' own words and the words of those within the ALE would be evidence that no defamation occurred even if the tape was manipulated.

Why has the defamation lawsuit not been thrown out.  There has been four years of repeated extentions granted following non-compliance to court requests.

I suspect the Kalpoes' high priced attorneys are challenging the requests for documentation.  The Kalpoes' high priced attorneys must be citing that the incriminating case documents are not relevent to the defamation lawsuit ... only the disputed McGraw recording.

I would love to be wrong in my speculations.  I do not want it revealed that there was a manipulation of the tape.  I do not want the Kalpoes and their backer to emerge the victors.  The implication would be that ... for the sake of ratings ... Phil McGraw's attempt to deceive ... ultimately lined the pockets of those who were involved in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... those within the Aruban administration who have been behind the misinformation campaign to pervent justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

BTW ... a little googling will reveal that in the past negotiated settlements have happened in regards to lawsuits filed against the great Phil McGraw and his high priced attorneys.

Janet

I absolutely believe that Dr. Phil's attorneys knew someone was footing the bill for the Kalpoes.  They knew the Kalpoes didn't have two nickels to rub together.

And the Kalpoe attorneys took the case on a contingency fee.  IMO

I think they took it on a contingincy basis too, Magnolia! For whatever it's worth, I believe that if Dr. Phil's atty's were going to settle, they would have done it by now and agree with those that think Dr. Phil's atty's would love to get any information from the Kalpoes about Natalee. I'm sure there are altruistic motives for wanting the information, but if they could manage to extract info from K2 while in deposition, it would prove to be big money for Dr. Phil and CBS as well. That information would draw a very large audience! Keep in mind the nature of depositions. Basically, anything can be asked and an answer is expected. K2's attys can log an objection, but the question is answered. Later, at the points of objection, a judge can rule whether it comes in to the trial. A deposition is a big 'ole fishing expedition, and the fish in the Kalpoe/Dr. Phil lake is Satish and Deepak!

I would imagine that K2's atty's were far more encouraged in the beginning about actually collecting a fee, and Joran's arrest in Peru was a blow to them. At one point, they had Joran on the DeVries video saying that K2 had nothing to do with Natalee's death. Things have gotten muddier since then and clearly Joran has shown over and over that if his mouth is open, he is lying. Nothing changes the fact that Natalee left with all 3 boys and all 3 boys lied about the HI drop off, for example. Those boys in a deposition is a dream come true for Natalee's family and a nightmare for them, IMO. Aruba would once again be under a microscope for inaction in the face of wildly inconsistant statements, following a deposition. The questions wouldn't come from an Aruban good ole boy with an agenda, and their answers couldn't stand next to the ones they've already given, IMO.

Just my thoughts............

[wreck]

Janet - I have to disagree with you on this.  I don't think they have any intention of settling with the Kalpoes.  I believe they expect the case to be thrown out and so do I. 

I agree with Magnolia - CBS and Dr. Phil have these attorneys on their payroll.  The Kalpoes are a minor irritation to CBS but do allow some hope of getting information regarding the NH case which is their intention IMO.

Klaas

We will have to agree to disagree until the outcome of this lawsuit is revealed.  If I am wrong ...  I will be rejoicing while eating crow pie.

Considering no findings have been released from the FBI investigation of the hard drive ... I suspect that the McGraw recording was manipulated with the expectation there would be no significant backlash from the Kalpoes.  After all ... at the most Deepak and Satish would be ... as you pointed out ... only "minor irritations".

However ... McGraw and his "people" did not anticipate that the ATA/AHATA would enter the scenario and take advantage of the NFI findings by financially backing the Kalpoes in a defamation lawsuit in anticipation of ultimately reaping a windfall ... a windfall that implied the Kalpoes ... the attorneys and ... Aruba would financially benefit.

Could it be that the filing of the defamation lawsuit by the Kalpoes' attorneys implied that McGraw had two choices ... settle or ... challenge the lawsuit by going in another direction.  The defence's strategy?  Case documentation would be requested.  The Kalpoes' own words and the words of those within the ALE would be evidence that no defamation occurred even if the tape was manipulated.

Why has the defamation lawsuit not been thrown out.  There has been four years of repeated extentions granted following non-compliance to court requests.

I suspect the Kalpoes' high priced attorneys are challenging the requests for documentation.  The Kalpoes' high priced attorneys must be citing that the incriminating case documents are not relevent to the defamation lawsuit ... only the disputed McGraw recording.

I would love to be wrong in my speculations.  I do not want it revealed that there was a manipulation of the tape.  I do not want the Kalpoes and their backer to emerge the victors.  The implication would be that ... for the sake of ratings ... Phil McGraw's attempt to deceive ... ultimately lined the pockets of those who were involved in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... those within the Aruban administration who have been behind the misinformation campaign to pervent justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

BTW ... a little googling will reveal that in the past negotiated settlements have happened in regards to lawsuits filed against the great Phil McGraw and his high priced attorneys.

Janet

I absolutely believe that Dr. Phil's attorneys knew someone was footing the bill for the Kalpoes.  They knew the Kalpoes didn't have two nickels to rub together.

And the Kalpoe attorneys took the case on a contingency fee.  IMO

I think they took it on a contingincy basis too, Magnolia! For whatever it's worth, I believe that if Dr. Phil's atty's were going to settle, they would have done it by now and agree with those that think Dr. Phil's atty's would love to get any information from the Kalpoes about Natalee. I'm sure there are altruistic motives for wanting the information, but if they could manage to extract info from K2 while in deposition, it would prove to be big money for Dr. Phil and CBS as well. That information would draw a very large audience! Keep in mind the nature of depositions. Basically, anything can be asked and an answer is expected. K2's attys can log an objection, but the question is answered. Later, at the points of objection, a judge can rule whether it comes in to the trial. A deposition is a big 'ole fishing expedition, and the fish in the Kalpoe/Dr. Phil lake is Satish and Deepak!

I would imagine that K2's atty's were far more encouraged in the beginning about actually collecting a fee, and Joran's arrest in Peru was a blow to them. At one point, they had Joran on the DeVries video saying that K2 had nothing to do with Natalee's death. Things have gotten muddier since then and clearly Joran has shown over and over that if his mouth is open, he is lying. Nothing changes the fact that Natalee left with all 3 boys and all 3 boys lied about the HI drop off, for example. Those boys in a deposition is a dream come true for Natalee's family and a nightmare for them, IMO. Aruba would once again be under a microscope for inaction in the face of wildly inconsistant statements, following a deposition. The questions wouldn't come from an Aruban good ole boy with an agenda, and their answers couldn't stand next to the ones they've already given, IMO.

Just my thoughts............

You are right on - IMO!

[Anna]

If this case is "thrown out" there goes the only hope of ever getting documents in Discovery and the Kalpoes under oath in deposition.

A case can't be tried or even go to trial until the Discovery requests have been met.

And NO WHERE does John Q Kelly say the Kalpoes lawyers are laying the ground rules.

This is the United States of America and the laws of this country prevail here.  It doesn't matter what some attorney in Aruba wants.  Any ruleing made on Aruban law would lose on appeal.

So if this is tossed the Kaploes are off the hook.  As it is, they can either hand over the documents, give depositions or wait forever for their day in court.

And there is nothing difficult about that to understand.  It doesn't matter if the tape was manipulated or not in regard to Discovery.  They STILL have to comply. 

And wreck is correct.  The judge is NOT hearing ANY evidence as that would be illegal before the trial.  Even if he were to do so, this will likely be a jury trial anyway and it is they would would decide.

Given that the whole world knows what Joran is and what he has done, they are not going to see the Kalpoes as having had any reputaion to destroy in the first part.

People who are concerned about their good name and reputation do not act as chauffeur for the likes of Joran van der Sloot.  That pretty well takes care of the "character" question by itself.

[Anna]

When you file a lawsuit, it is implied and understood that you both can and will comply with Discovery.  Otherwise, don't file one.

And it doesn't matter if the documents are relevant or not to the tape or even the case, you can ask just just about any and everything in Discovery if it is even the most remote instance related to the case and often even if it isn't.

The judge later decides what will and will not be allowed to be entered into evidence at the trial.  Some things in Discovery may not be allowed because they are irrelevant but the parties still have to provide them.

And most especially does the complaining party have to comply.  You can't just accuse somebody and then refuse to give them what they need for form a defense.

[Anna]

OK, I want to see this "girlfriend" of Joran.

Where is Jinkasaurus when we need her?

Maybe it's true.  And maybe Joran is making it all up and it's some elderly woman delivering his groceries.

In any evnet I just want to see her.