Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #18 8/11/10 - 8/13/10

[txlisa]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

Good Afternoon Monkeys!

I completely agree.  There is not one iota of proof that Kaine had a boyfriend or girlfriend.  I think Terri spun a huge tale of "woe is me" to gain sympathy from her friends.

This person has an agenda and that's to exonerate Terri or at least show Terri's side of the story.  Odd that they start the blog a couple days ago and the Alternate Theory was not their first post.  I call BS.

[amom2]

LE says this is an "investigative" grand jury.  They are "fact-finding" in this case.  Doesn't mean they won't bring an indictment later on...but now...they're searching for the truth. 

It's reasonable to think that all the searching done last weekend was at least partially done due to information gleaned by the grand jury in their investigation...information that was given to LE to check out.

Again, it doesn't make sense to me that the media person knows the lingo or how to use it. All Grand Juries are investigative. They get to ask questions of all witnesses, etc. But their main goal, always, surrounds the possibility of an indictment. Indictment of a specific person for a specific alleged crime. In this case the person is Terri. I don't know that anyone knows for certain if the crime is MFH or kidnapping. There are others involved (DeDe is implicated) and witnesses concerning the person the possible indictment is against. So the Grand Jury is going to be looking at everything that concerns the possible indictment - which is the purpose they are gathered in the first place - to investigate the circumstances around Terri Horman in this case, to decide on whether or not to bring the indictment. I was responding to this part of what you had said:

Now, THAT makes much more sense of why a GJ is formed.  Not just to paint a picture of Terri, but to investigate everyone involved and have all for corners of the page (a well-rounded picture of what happened).  A well-rounded picture is the way to make appropriate conclusions.

And I guess I would just say that in investigating everyone, it all has to do with how it relates to Terri - because the GJ isn't an extension of the investigation. It isn't their job to find the culprit. It is their job to see if there's enough evidence to bring an indictment against Terri.

Another excerpt:

Grand Juries also serve an investigative function, and have the ability to subpoena witnesses and effects. A witness who lies to a Grand Jury can be prosecuted for perjury. There is no right to counsel that attaches for witnesses, although one may invoke his or her 5th Amendment Right Against Self-incrimination. This privilege applies to both testimony and production of documents. Sometimes the privilege is overcome by the granting of statutory immunity, under Title 18 of the United State Code.

The Grand Jury also need not meet any burden of proof to open an investigation, and can investigate on mere suspicion or simply to ensure that a crime has not been committed. See U.S. v. Morton Salt. Co., 338 US 632 642-643 (1950).

Also, the Grand Jury does not need to conform to rules of evidence, such as hearsay, and the Grand Jury can also view evidence that would normally be suppressed or suppressible. See U.S. v. Williams, 504 US 35, 50 (1992).

[Deenie]

  Thank you Seahorse.

I am perplexed why some of this info is coming out now? When it was important when people had their memories working ( earlier).. with this being on the news minute by minute .. I would think it would make people's memories confused. Or even swayed from what they originally recalled. It's not implicating evidence that they are releasing ..it could have been imperative weeks ago..for some one to step up and say "" I DID See" or etc.. that they could say " for sure yes I did see or witness" ...
Is it because DeDe hired an atty? That it created Red Tape/Delay that her statements could not be released by LE or media right away ..? Sounds to me that Dede needed to confirm "her  rights" were protected before she would step up ..open her mouth and help ( insert swearing here)..I don't understand who is on first within all of this. When Kyron's life is hanging out there ..and so many people want to help ( the Public) ..
Something is off with all this newly released info that would have been crucial weeks ago.
I have to blame it on the Dede and Terri for all this " Protect Me, Protect Me First, Mr/Ms Atty" before any of this could be released to the public.. and it is a total Shame. 
It's disgusting to the point, these two women have to know, at one point or another - they are going to have to Move to Alaska .. and have their Nature Farm and sustainable living green house.. because their futures in Oregon are over. ( If they are not put behind bars first). 

[amom2]

Here's an excerpt from this webpage:

The Grand Jury, as it has become known in America, has constitutional underpinnings in the United States. Specifically, the 5th Amendment reads in relevant part,

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger. U.S. Const. Bill of Rigths Am. V.

The Grand Jury is intended to act as an independent body, apart from the courts and prosecution, to scrutinize the evidence against a defendant.  In states that have Grand Juries, each state has its own rules regarding a state-empanelled Grand Jury.

The Grand Jury is a body of laypeople who are summoned to court to review the evidence to determine whether an indictment should be issued against the defendant.

Trial juries generally get to hear both sides of the case:  from the prosecution and the defence. However, in a Grand Jury, there is no judge and only the prosecution is able to present evidence. The Grand Jury is also generally a closed process, in that the jurors are sworn to secrecy, and the proceedings are not open to the public or media, as they generally are in jury trials.

**Link embedded**

Sworn to secrecy!  Aren't we getting a blow by blow from the press?

Not from the Grand Jury - I presume from the witnesses, who are not sworn to secrecy (unless a gag order is issued?). Just because we are getting info on what is going on in there, doesn't mean it's coming from the Grand Jury.

[Grey]

KATU news clip from tonight @ 11 pm with the email from Terri and a good "walk through" of the side gravel road next to Skyline.  The camera following the walk up the gravel road to the entrance of the school - you realized quickly why parking the truck there would be a benefit if you had the need for a quick, speedy get away.  KATU uploaded on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye_MsDrlAUU

Thanks for the link, Labadorable.

Jame's bio father may have only heard Terri's version about moving James out of the home when he spoke with the press. By now he has fully discussed it with James to get the real truth, and I am sure LE and the Grand Jury have narrowed down the truth about the move. If Terri told me the sky is blue, I would ask for at three corroborating witnesses.

The video has great visuals about the access road. Scary.

WYKS!!  This fits right in with your theory.  If "our" Wyks can theorize this weeks ago, "why" has it taken LE so long to do this?  People's memories would have been so much clearer two months ago.  Maybe LE didn't have every little detail then that they do now, BUT don't forget that Kyron gone missing wasn't in the news for days!!

     

Hi, Wyks. They took this plot right from you with your photographs. You had a good theory, and sadly it is very possible. As soon as I saw your photo of the stairs leading to the access road, I knew it would be easy to spirit someone away.

Don't ya' just hate it when a plan comes together.

[Wyks]

Thanks for the well wishes for my baby!!  He's still doing wonderful!  Clay...I too thought wow she parked far away until I conted the parking spaces from truck to store (approximate) and it looks to be around 10 spots.  As picky as some of us believe KH to be I bet she would've parked in Timbuktu to keep from getting his truck scuffed up by other people cars parking next to her.  I'm talking about the bottom left pic viewing FM entrance/exit.

I agree melis!  My youngest has a fancy lil Tiburon, and he parks in Timbuktu to keep it from getting dinged and dented.  He is well-known for dropping everyone off at the door, parking in the south-40, then jogging back to join all of us.  lol 

In fact, when I'm mad at him for something, and have his car... when he calls to see what I'm up to, I just tell him that I'm out gettin' tickets and chit, strippin' his gears, and parkin' in the closest spaces.      

[d in texas]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100511654.html

PORTLAND, Ore. - Two months before Kyron Horman vanished, his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, sent an e-mail to a KATU News source regarding her biological son that provides new insight into the tension that may have been brewing in the Horman household.

(snipped)


OK, I was reading it wrong (blame it on not enough coffee).  I was thinking she emailed KATU news 2 months before Kyron went missing but she emailed a FRIEND that is the KATU NEWS SOURCE.

I am taking it they did not provide the full content of the email from TH?  I really do not like when they do that, reminds me of NG and things are taken out of context and they spin the words to what the writer wants to  get the article to say.
Personally I want to see the email in TH's own words?

[Bearlyhere]

IMO, Terri was the control freak in that marriage. She had free reign M-F while Kaine worked. He had no idea what she did. I have known controlling husbands.....their wives couldn't as much as go to the grocery store without permission.
Of course, having a toddler limited her "options" when Kiara was born.
They were only married for what 3-4 years. She was unhappy for a long time??
If Kaine was so controlling for the 3-4 years prior to them getting married, she had the choice to not marry Kaine.
I've been married for 29 years......if I was unhappy in my marriage, 29 years would be A LONG TIME. Not 3 -4 years.

Terri was sick of parenting a teen, a young child and a baby. She got rid of James (IMO that was her decision, she just blamed Kaine like always) Yes, she could have told Kaine she wanted Desiree and Tony to take full custody of Kyron.....but Terri would NEVER admit her failure as a mother of Kyron to Desiree. Not a chance in he!!. Terri always thought she was better than Desiree in every way, including being a better mother to Kyron.
IMO

I totally agree with all of your post.  I think that Terri wants everyone to see her a this perfect woman who does everything right.  And when she got tired of playing mom she blamed Kaine for her unhappiness.  And of course all would believe her because he is the guy who left his pregnant wife for Terri. 

What really gets me is to see folks blame everyone (Kaine, Desiree, Tony, the kids, etc) for Terri's actions. 

No, not blaming them, looking for a motive.  What would motivate someone to do that?  That is what people have trouble wrapping their head around what may have been done.  What would make a person do that.

There is a big difference between blame and motive.

I agree there's a difference, but I feel that there is no motive valid enough to do something this evil. I think it has a lot to do with what's already existing within a person--a tendency towards sociopathy. I mean if Terri has a personality disorder, it's much easier to understand why Kyron disappeared. Not that I'm saying a personality disorder excuses it...I just think she's a deceptive, manipulative, narcissistic wretch.

Agreed, but where you find motive, you may find prevention.  No excuses, just why, so we can find a pattern, or look for this kind of behavior in someone else.

[Wyks]

Landscaper Terri allegedly tried to hire to kill Kaine appears before grand jury

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Landscaper-Terri-allegedly-tried-to-hire-to-kill/DsZPsC9z3UujvXc6ZrUh-Q.cspx

link added

What wrongdoing would the landscaper be granted immunity from.  Obviously ... he never went along with any MFH plot.

Janet

As some of us have wondered before, maybe he at some point turned that possible MFH plot around on Terri and demanded hush money?  If so... <can't remember what legal term that is>.. but might he ask for immunity from that, in exchange for telling all and going along with the attempted sting?

   

[amom2]

I am taking it they did not provide the full content of the email from TH?  I really do not like when they do that, reminds me of NG and things are taken out of context and they spin the words to what the writer wants to  get the article to say.
Personally I want to see the email in TH's own words?

They say in the video link that the email was very brief.

**link embedded**

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Landscaper-Terri-allegedly-tried-to-hire-to-kill/DsZPsC9z3UujvXc6ZrUh-Q.cspx

LINK

You know, I have just a many thoughts of Terri being involved in Kyron going missing as most everyone else.  But, still, I have a problem with the LE/press in painting a picture for us that is so anti-Terri.

Words make a difference.  Simple example: open this link and the message from the press - According to retired Portland Police Capt. C.W. Jensen, the grand jury is looking at this “because it paints them a picture of Terri's character’.

Sounds like this GJ was formed to “only” look at Terri’s character.

Then the press makes a quote of what was actually said:  "What you are doing in a grand jury - in an investigative grand jury - is you are painting a picture of everyone and you want to have all four corners of the page and so that’s what you’re doing here," Jensen said.

Now, THAT makes much more sense of why a GJ is formed.  Not just to paint a picture of Terri, but to investigate everyone involved and have all for corners of the page (a well-rounded picture of what happened).  A well-rounded picture is the way to make appropriate conclusions.

Too late, most readers have already read that the GJ was formed to paint a picture of Terri and that’s what’s remembered.

I, too, think Terri is guilty of something…but I could be wrong. 

Whatever…Kyron is missing and I’m getting really concerned that some avenues could be overlooked when the public is being fed what they’re to believe.

I firmly believe that Terri is behind the disappearance of Kyron but ... I also believe that others are involved ... have connections.  It is my contention that the implications encompassing the events which occurred on the morning of June 4, 2010 are very far reaching.

Janet

Janet,

With the thought that events could be very far reaching and involving others - do you think that will make it more or less likely that we'll eventually find out what happened?

Will "others" involved make it more likely that "someone" will trip up and spill the beans?

Will the fact that it's been this long and no one's spilled the beans ensure that we'll never know all?

A conspiracy/support network involving the disappearance of Kyron may imply a code of silence.  However ... if one member of that conspiracy is indicted ... he/she may spill the beans in a plea deal.

The revelation in regards to when the cell phones where purchased by Terri's friends ... Dede's unaccountable 3-4 hours ... indicates to me there was a conspiracy/support network involved in the happens on the morning when Kyron disappeared.

Considering I cannot comprehend the underlying point of a conspiracy/support network  regarding the murder of a little boy ... I suspect that Kyron is alive.  Could it be he was sold to some segment of the underground?

Janet

+++++++

Police Bump Up Search for Kyron Horman
Harris Faulkner 9:48 am on August 9, 2010

Just got off the phone with Multnomah Sheriff’s Department and they confirmed a “tip” led them to bump up the search again for 7-year-old Kyron Horman. Kinda knew that but, wanted to see if they would comment about reports that the “tip” came from family friend, DeDe Spicher. They wouldn’t tell me if that’s true. But, Spicher told a Grand Jury on Friday that she, another girlfriend and Kyron’s stepmom, Terri Horman, each bought an untraceable cell phone the day the little boy vanished. The cops wouldn’t tell me if they’re looking for those phones in the big renewed search. This case is intense. Where is that child?!

http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2010/08/09/police-bump-up-search-for-kyron-horman/

Credit: Lucky 7


d in Texas
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #16 8/08/10 -
« Reply #771 on: August 09, 2010, 11:41:34 PM »

Okay after begging my source said it is TRUE about Lucky 7 article>>>http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2010/08/09/police-bump-up-search-for-kyron-horman/

It was not supposed to be released until Wednesday, sorry that is they would say.  I trust the source very much....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8354.msg1203244#msg1203244

[Curly]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

This person has an agenda and that's to exonerate Terri or at least show Terri's side of the story.  Odd that they start the blog a couple days ago and the Alternate Theory was not their first post.  I call BS.

More like an Alternate Universe.
This total BS.
Why would KH remarry if he discovered he was gay?
Makes no sense.

[nicubird]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

This person has an agenda and that's to exonerate Terri or at least show Terri's side of the story.  Odd that they start the blog a couple days ago and the Alternate Theory was not their first post.  I call BS.

The person who started the blog is 42ndState form OregonLive. Her profile and all of her very "pro Terri" posts have been deleted from the comments on that site.

[Grey]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

This person has an agenda and that's to exonerate Terri or at least show Terri's side of the story.  Odd that they start the blog a couple days ago and the Alternate Theory was not their first post.  I call BS.

More like an Alternate Universe.
This total BS.
Why would KH remarry if he discovered he was gay?
Makes no sense.

Alternate Universe is right.

Too many nut-jobs are pro-Terri, and some of them are raising future adults.

 

[Wyks]

I just remembered something. Didn't Desiree and Kaine threaten to take DeDe to civil court if she were not forthcoming with LE about Kyron? If she does manage to get immunity for her information, and if that information could have led to an earlier discovery of Kyron, I would wager that Desiree and Kaine will haul her to civil court. I don't think you can bankrupt away punitive damages (anyone know for sure?), so they could make her life miserable forever. They will own her and every penny she has forever.

 

Might would rather our legal-beagle Jess weigh in on this.  lol  In the meantime, am thinking that *IF* DeDe had some involvement with Terri's involvement in Kyron gone missing, and perhaps death... that maybe DeDe can ask for immunity in exchange for turning the tables on Terri and spilling all she knows.  The immunity would likely cover whatever DeDe might have faced in criminal charges.  But as you said, perhaps later on, in a seperate procedure, Kaine/Desiree could haul both DeDe and Terri, maybe whomever else, into civil court and sue for wrongful death?  I dunno. 

[txlisa]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

This person has an agenda and that's to exonerate Terri or at least show Terri's side of the story.  Odd that they start the blog a couple days ago and the Alternate Theory was not their first post.  I call BS.

The person who started the blog is 42ndState form OregonLive. Her profile and all of her very "pro Terri" posts have been deleted from the comments on that site.

That explains it!  42ndState is a vile creature!

[Tamikosmom]

THE GYM

Could it be that Terri "hitting" the gym on the morning of June 4, 2010 ... one hour prior to heading home ... was all about a meeting consisting of some participants of the conspiracy?  Was there a discussion regarding the transpired event of the past three hours as well as damage control when the anticipated H--- all broke loose when it was revealed that Kyron was missing ... had not attended school that day?

Janet

[d in texas]

IMO, Terri was the control freak in that marriage. She had free reign M-F while Kaine worked. He had no idea what she did. I have known controlling husbands.....their wives couldn't as much as go to the grocery store without permission.
Of course, having a toddler limited her "options" when Kiara was born.
They were only married for what 3-4 years. She was unhappy for a long time??
If Kaine was so controlling for the 3-4 years prior to them getting married, she had the choice to not marry Kaine.
I've been married for 29 years......if I was unhappy in my marriage, 29 years would be A LONG TIME. Not 3 -4 years.

Terri was sick of parenting a teen, a young child and a baby. She got rid of James (IMO that was her decision, she just blamed Kaine like always) Yes, she could have told Kaine she wanted Desiree and Tony to take full custody of Kyron.....but Terri would NEVER admit her failure as a mother of Kyron to Desiree. Not a chance in he!!. Terri always thought she was better than Desiree in every way, including being a better mother to Kyron.
IMO

Unless you are a fly on the wall of the Horman household ... NOBODY knows what the dynamics were.  However ... when you consider the underlying character of a husband who could have an affair on his wife when she was eight months pregnant under any circumstances ... Kaine does not reflect my definition of integrity.

IMO

Janet

++++


Little Boy Lost
Report airs Monday, July 26, 10 p.m./9 C on Dateline NBC
by Kate Snow
NBC News
updated 7/26/2010 6:51:10 PM ET
 
TRANSCRIPT

DESIREE YOUNG: Unfortunately, Kaine was not faithful to me and met another woman.

KATE SNOW: That was Terri?

DESIREE YOUNG: Mm-hmm.

KATE SNOW: So all of the sudden you know that there's another woman. You're eight months pregnant.

DESIREE YOUNG: Yeah.

KATE SNOW: Must have been a low point in your life.

DESIREE YOUNG: Yeah. It was pretty hard to handle. I cried solid for two months and didn't leave the bedroom because I didn't understand why she somehow equated to something that was better than me and my son.

Kaine, however, insists that he and Desiree had broken up before he stated seeing Terri, agreeing to live separate lives under the same roof just until their baby came along.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266

I am going to have to agree with you sorry there are too many different versions from KH's version, not only with TH but also DY.  THIS IS IN NO WAY condoning or siding with ANYTHING TH and buddies have done. 
PEOPLE when unhappy you do have an option it is called D-I-V-O-R-C-E, yes divorce....just blows me away.
I am above and over the top angry at this whole situation with TH and DDS, they are truly bad people on my scale of good and bad....
I wish James would just give a statement at this point and but it to rest get his name out of the whole thing, I feel so sorry for the children of these people, forever when friends google their names now, it will list TH and what she has done.

[Deenie]

Just my opinion, but I think that DeDe Spicher has Terri on a pedestal.

For some reason DeDe thinks that Terri is the Cats Axx.
That she sees' Terri as superwoman or something. More than likely at one time ( if not even today) there is some envy on Dede's part .. that she wishes she could be just like Terri.
Sounds to me that DeDe is fairly gullible..when it comes to Terri. That Dede is Starry-eyed when she is with Terri.  Terri is the big dawg and Dede is the little dog .. jumping up and down .. doing whatever she can to impress Terri.

The video of DeDe walking outside of the court house, that has been posted here before. Dede's body language as she walking, and the smug smirk on her face.. 
Her body swaying back and forth, her arms across her chest, reminds me of a child, that knows they are in trouble, yet they are not going to say anything .. "as if she is offering to all around her" via her body language, to me she comes across as ( You're not my Mom Hah Hah, I don't have to tell you anything)... like the cat who swallowed the canary. She obviously is standing by Terri's side... Its more so to protect her precious Terri. 
Than to protect her own self/future. She is not standing up for Kyron, that's a given. Almost makes you wonder if Dede is in love with Terri. ( not inferring anything, its just an observation) Many women, have gone to jail/prison to protect their boyfriends/spouses, just saying. 
 

[melisb]

Bearlyhere wrote:

It was over 6 years until he slept.  Not a premie, but reflux and hypersensitive to sounds, and words.  He picked up a germ which gave him sepsis then he needed a ventilator, they told me he might die.  I held him for many years or put him in the swing and slept right behind it.

I think Terri was Kaine's caretaker, too.  Why leave your wife, who is 8 months pregnant?  Many leave because they are no longer the one getting all of the attention and care.  A pregnant woman needs to take care of both herself and her unborn child before anyone else.  Now walks in Terri who is giving him attention and becoming his caretaker.   Then comes Kyron.  How did Kaine manipulate Desiree into letting him have full custody after she was well?  Maybe he wore her down.  Then when Kiara came, and I believe she was a terror from what I have read Terri say (it only matters what Terri thinks anyway), she could no longer hold all the balloons up in the air and they all came crashing down.  Then her son left.

I snipped your post so I wouldn't bring forward the stack.  I have to agree with you here about TH.  I do believe that some people present themselves in the beginning of a relationship to be what they aren't just to make the inteneded more dependant on them.  Terri could very well have been the motherly type not just to the kids but to KH also.  IMO he seems like the type of guy who is kinda hands off in th caring of the kids.  He might not have known one of them had an appt. and that isn't saying anything bad about him it's just that TH may have been very good at being the caretaker and handled everything.  My hubby is the same way about doctors, bills, shopping, etc..  I take care of everything but I include him in all major decisions.  But he trusts me enough and my judgement to always do the right things.  I'm real good at taking care of them.  That is what I believe has happened in the Horman family.  Kaine really can't answer particular things about his family like the appt for Ky, or TH's questionable PPD.  I also think that James may have been a problem for KH because he wasn't his bio child and didn't have complete control over that situation. They may not have butted heads so to speak but if KH thought James to be out of line KH could've given TH hell for it and make her make a choice.   If he is also childish (KH) then the James situation was a real problem.  You can put the little ones to bed and bring them out when you want them but James is old enough to have his own opinions, thoughts, and roam around during 'grown up time'.  You know I don't know if the rumors of an affair on KH's side are true and in this statement it doesn't matter but imagine if the man you think you love had an affair or just decided he wanted out and you did everything you could think of  to try to mend the relationship including sending your eldest child away to make the man happy and he still rejected you.  No way on this earth is there ever an excuse for Kyron to not be home now.  That isn't what I am talking about.  Something happened to TH and I just want to know what.  The family dynamics played into what happened to Kyron but what was the catalyst?  I just want him stashed for safety even if it is only a figment of TH's imaginaion that he needed to be saved from whatever.  That would be the best scenario in my head after all that has happened.